Religion is Child Abuse

[cybercoma]

You have no tolerance for any beliefs that contradict yours.

Actually, she hasn't said anything about her beliefs. She just said she's an atheist, which by definition means she doesn't believe in YOUR belief. Atheism in and of itself is not a belief. It's is up to the believer to give the reason for holding a belief.

I could say I believe you're a murderer. The default position for everyone else is to not hold any sort of belief. Now if I wanted to make believers out of other people I would have to produce evidence of your activities... if I cannot provide any evidence of said activities it would be slander or libel.

In other words, it has nothing to do with having NO TOLERANCE for people who believe you're a murderer, it's common sense not to believe in things that are not proven.

[Oleg Bach]

Actually, she hasn't said anything about her beliefs. She just said she's an atheist, which by definition means she doesn't believe in YOUR belief. Atheism in and of itself is not a belief. It's is up to the believer to give the reason for holding a belief.

I could say I believe you're a murderer. The default position for everyone else is to not hold any sort of belief. Now if I wanted to make believers out of other people I would have to produce evidence of your activities... if I cannot provide any evidence of said activities it would be slander or libel.

In other words, it has nothing to do with having NO TOLERANCE for people who believe you're a murderer, it's common sense not to believe in things that are not proven.

Religion is man made and men and woman abuse the angels called children - God is goodness and not man made - and God is innocent - it's you that allows this..and YOUR religion - God dispises those that hurt the little ones..Christ said - and it is profound he advocated capital punishment in these regards - to paraphrase.."Any one that hurts one of these little ones should have a millstone tied to their neck and tossed into the see - they will wish they were never born - Christ was not a religion.

[cybercoma]

God is goodness

Such abstract ideas do nothing to further the cause of showing that God is real. Goodness is goodness and it's something very real that everyone should show towards one another because this is the only life we have. There will be no eternal salvation, so we need to take care of each other here and now.

"Any one that hurts one of these little ones should have a millstone tied to their neck and tossed into the see - they will wish they were never born

Terminating someone's existence is never acceptable. What an appalling idea.

[White Doors]

I would say the same if you switched nouns to refer to any movement that people would kill and die for in order to consolidate power to a few. And even though western religion in the 21st century is comparatively moderate, religion has been historically and continues to be overwhelmingly fanatic. It is only because of the relatively recent degeneration of “faith” in religious authority that we have been able to feel comfortable with its lack of influence. But fanatics are common (and some would say mainstream) everywhere else in the world, and the huckabees are making a comeback here too. Some of them are even talking about making amendments to the U.S. constitution of biblical proportions.

It is the nature of religion for its adherents to feel they are following the unadulterated word of God. Squishy religions that are open to other ideas and don’t necessarily consider themselves to know “the truth” are far more an aberration than the norm. What you call fanaticism is what I call religion operating on all cylinders.

So to you the problem with communism was the leaders, but not the adherants?

Your line is getting fuzzy and what waws your point again?

Was it, religion is bad, not as bad, bad as it was but bad. Bad enough that you seemingly want to trample human rights and ban it? Child abuse? That's what you are advocating, right? And you sreiously want people to be afraid of religion when you are preaching here that it should be banned?

are you serious?

Drea, let me know when you are able to keep up and I will respond in kind.

[White Doors]

You're just as much a fanatic atheist as any theist is a fanatic atheist in regards to all other possible gods. There simply is no such thing as a fanatic atheist, since it's the default position. I don't understand why people are being so dense about this.

Simple really.

An atheist that deny's or ridicules another right to be a theist, is a fanatic.

simpel really.

Why are you being so dense about this?

Do you consider Stalin to have been a moderate?

[cybercoma]

Simple really.

An atheist that deny's or ridicules another right to be a theist, is a fanatic.

simpel really.

Why are you being so dense about this?

Do you consider Stalin to have been a moderate?

Who's denying your right to be a theist?

I hardly think ridiculing someone is a sign of fanaticism. People are ridiculed on this forum for their political beliefs constantly, but as soon as someone looks to a religious person to explain their beliefs with solid concrete reasoning, it's taken as a personal attack or ridicule? Perhaps you need to get a grip on reality, if that's at all possible for a theist.

[BubberMiley]

That's what you are advocating, right? And you sreiously want people to be afraid of religion when you are preaching here that it should be banned?

No, banning it would create more problems than it would solve. I didn't say anything at all about banning it. I think people should use their reason to recognize all the harm religion has caused, particularly to children, and then move beyond it.

[cybercoma]

Banning religion would be like banning psychics. It just doesn't make any sense. It's more practical to look at someone who says they frequent psychics like they're an idiot.

[White Doors]

Who's denying your right to be a theist?

I hardly think ridiculing someone is a sign of fanaticism. People are ridiculed on this forum for their political beliefs constantly, but as soon as someone looks to a religious person to explain their beliefs with solid concrete reasoning, it's taken as a personal attack or ridicule? Perhaps you need to get a grip on reality, if that's at all possible for a theist.

I don't eben know if I am a theist, but thanks for trying to pigeon-hole me.

You don't see the irony of this?

but as soon as someone looks to a religious person to explain their beliefs with solid concrete reasoning,

It's called faith.

I can't understand that people have 'faith' in the future of humanity despite all of the suffering humanity has wrought unto itself in the last 100 years. I understand and even admire it. I do not ask them to explain themselves and ridicule them when they don't present 'concrete reasoning'.

To do so would be pompous, bombastic, illogical and rude.

You predict the future accurately and then I will find you a theist to explain their faith with 'concrete reasoning'.

lol

some people just refuse to see further than their nose will point them.

sad really.

[White Doors]

No, banning it would create more problems than it would solve. I didn't say anything at all about banning it. I think people should use their reason to recognize all the harm religion has caused, particularly to children, and then move beyond it.

What harm has religion brought to children?

How does it differ from the harm brought on by the belief in Santa Claus?

What is it of your business how people choose to bring up their children?

Where do you get off even thinking that you have the right to cntrol the thoughts and beliefs of others?

have you ever seen a police state that you didn't like?

Is minority report your favourite movie of all time?

[White Doors]

Banning religion would be like banning psychics. It just doesn't make any sense. It's more practical to look at someone who says they frequent psychics like they're an idiot.

the same way that I look at people who don't tolerate other people being different - like idiots.

it's a free country I suppose.

[Oleg Bach]

the same way that I look at people who don't tolerate other people being different - like idiots.

it's a free country I suppose.

It's not a free country - try to impliment the charter of rights in a court - they ignore it...having said that - I would say that extremist corporate secularism is also child abuse - getting a developing human being of the age of four out of bed at 5 in the morning to be sent off to a Soviet sytle day care is also abuse and in a sense child labour to employ "early learning" adult parasites...as for religion - it's man made and made to control and is an abuse of natural childhood freedom - where as the concept of God and Goodness is not abuse - it leads to society running fairly and with less brutality ...besides - tear down the temple and build it up is fine - what replacement to the atheist have for God? I would say none! You do not remove even a defective set of principles and replace it with no real tried and true principles....as far as others being different - we are really not that estranged - leave the kids alone and let the adults communicate without poisioning the atmosphere with "diversity" and all will work out fine - people are good - the are Godly - just let nature take it's course and stop engineering.

[BubberMiley]

What harm has religion brought to children?

How does it differ from the harm brought on by the belief in Santa Claus?

What is it of your business how people choose to bring up their children?

Where do you get off even thinking that you have the right to cntrol the thoughts and beliefs of others?

have you ever seen a police state that you didn't like?

Is minority report your favourite movie of all time?

I have no idea why you bring up police states. I stated clearly I have no interest in governing people's behaviour, nor do I have an interest in banning religion. These are interpretations derived solely from your tendency toward extreme extrapolation while reading. That can be a dangerous habit, especially when signing contracts. Be very careful.

I've already indicated why I think religion is harmful to children. I suspect you didn't get far beyond the thread title, considering you've obviously missed everything I said.

[cybercoma]

I can't understand that people have 'faith' in the future of humanity despite all of the suffering humanity has wrought unto itself in the last 100 years. I understand and even admire it. I do not ask them to explain themselves and ridicule them when they don't present 'concrete reasoning'.

To do so would be pompous, bombastic, illogical and rude.

You predict the future accurately and then I will find you a theist to explain their faith with 'concrete reasoning'.

lol

some people just refuse to see further than their nose will point them.

sad really.

I can't logically predict the future with any sort of certainty, so why would I? Having faith in something doesn't make it real. Believing in something for no other reason than faith gets you ridiculed in all other arenas besides religion.

For example, I believe ripping someone's heart out each day is necessary for the sun to rise and fall. I understand that science completely refutes this, but I have faith that the sun god needs me to do this.

That right there is bat turds crazy, but the aztecs/mayans believed just that. It doesn't make it right, nor does it stop rational people from thinking those sort of eccentricities are dangerous.

On the same note, teaching children that all they need is faith and reason is something that should be shunned is not exactly the same as murder, but it's a dangerous precedent to set because it sets those kids up to fail.

Edited February 22, 2008 by cybercoma

[sharkman]

The religion of atheism has abused millions of children worldwide in the 20th century alone. I pray that one day it will be thrown on the trash heap of history, freeing people to believe what they choose to without having atheism forced on them by cruel dictatorships.

[Drea]

The religion of atheism has abused millions of children worldwide in the 20th century alone. I pray that one day it will be thrown on the trash heap of history, freeing people to believe what they choose to without having atheism forced on them by cruel dictatorships.

Atheism is in of itself the lack of religious belief... it is not a "belief" but a lack of belief.

Atheism is not an "organized" movement out to "indoctrinate" children (or adults)... atheism is about looking at the world around us with realistic eye. Atheists don't get together to discuss how much "better" or more "saved" we are than others...there is no "church of atheism".

*sigh* no matter how many times this has been stated, the religious cannot wrap their brains around the fact that a lack of belief does not mean a belief of a different kind -- it means no belief at all... *sigh*

You pray that the fight between religions (and sects of each) continues?

You pray that rather than using logic, we should all just listen to what our "gods" tell us? What if Joe Blow's god says that you are a menace and he must rid the earth of you? Do you still think Joe Blow should be free to push his god's agenda (killing you infidel!)?

If it makes you feel good to pretend there is an entity judging you and yours then fine... but just don't expect others to accept your unprovable claims. Just keep the theism to your home or your church. Keep it out of my schools and out of my government.

[sharkman]

Drea, two of the most harmful atheists of the 20th century were Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin.

I won't respond to your illogical comparisons between atheism and religion except to say, if it makes you feel good to believe that there is no entity watching over you then fine, just don't expect others to believe your unprovable claims. And keep it out of my schools and my government.

[Guest American Woman]

Atheism is not an "organized" movement out to "indoctrinate" children (or adults)... atheism is about looking at the world around us with realistic eye. Atheists don't get together to discuss how much "better" or more "saved" we are than others...there is no "church of atheism".

*sigh* no matter how many times this has been stated, the religious cannot wrap their brains around the fact that a lack of belief does not mean a belief of a different kind -- it means no belief at all... *sigh*

Of course it's a belief. It's a belief that there is no God. Are you saying you don't believe that? If you had no opinion, then you'd have no belief. But you believe there is no God. Believing something results in a belief. Furthermore, while there is no "church of atheism," apparently you feel as if you need a voice. Why would someone with no beliefs need a voice?

The internet has finally given us a voice -- the only voice we have.

So not only do you have a belief, but it sounds as if you feel a need to voice your belief.

Edited February 22, 2008 by American Woman

[Drea]

The voice is required so that... oh never mind

You people are too brainwashed to even TRY to understand that a lack of belief is not a belief in of itself.

I don't believe in Santa either (nor do you) so does that mean you and I have "asanta" beliefs?

[Guest American Woman]

The voice is required so that... oh never mind

Not sure how to respond to that, eh?

I don't believe in Santa either (nor do you) so does that mean you and I have "asanta" beliefs?

First of all, not believing in Santa is the belief that Santa doesn't exist as opposed to the belief that he does. They are both beliefs, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. But here's the thing. I don't feel as if I need a platform to voice my belief about Santa. See the difference?

Edited February 22, 2008 by American Woman

[Drea]

well no kidding.

Until "god" gets his/it's/her ass down here to earth, I will not "believe". If I saw it/her/him then I would be a believer.

How about if someone tells you aliens created us -- why not believe that? Its certainly no more far fetched than the bible...

about the "voice" -- I am just getting really tired of this circular argument. So tired of it in fact, that I am going to ask (no, demand) that the Allah/Jesus/Mohammed/Sky Daddy/Pixie/Elf/Alien saves me from it all.

[Guest American Woman]

about the "voice" -- I am just getting really tired of this circular argument. So tired of it in fact, that I am going to ask (no, demand) that the Allah/Jesus/Mohammed/Sky Daddy/Pixie/Elf/Alien saves me from it all.

In other words, I hit the nail on the head. You don't know how to respond to your need to voice something that you claim isn't a belief. But in light of your weak attempt at a response when you obviously don't have one, I feel the need to impart the wisdom of good ol' Abe Lincoln upon you: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

[Drea]

So you consider atheism "foolish"? Pffft.

Whatever.

How one can think science is "foolish" and believing in an invisible sky daddy is "wise" boggles the mind.

Whatever. Have fun.

[Guest American Woman]

So you consider atheism "foolish"? Pffft.

Whatever.

How one can think science is "foolish" and believing in an invisible sky daddy is "wise" boggles the mind.

Whatever. Have fun.

Do you really not get what I actually said?-- what I was in actuality responding to? Or do you purposely respond to something else entirely-- knowing full well you're responding to something I never said?

Edited February 22, 2008 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

Drea, two of the most harmful atheists of the 20th century were Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin.

Hitler was a Catholic.

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 65. )