Religion is Child Abuse

[sharkman]

That quote about Hitler does not either prove he was a Catholic OR a Christian. Believing that God wants you to be against Jews (aka God's people) only proves one is not hearing from God on the matter.

Further, if you still believe your quote has merit, Mein Kampf was written many years before Hitler came to power, and can not be taken as an accurate picture of his beliefs at the time he was closing churches and killing Jews.

Edited February 23, 2008 by sharkman

[Guest American Woman]

Hitler was a Catholic.

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 65. )

Hitler also said that propaganda has to appeal to the masses, and considering his private correspondences seem to be anti-Christian/anti-religion, many attribute public quotes such as the one you cited to 'propaganda to get support from the masses.'

[sharkman]

I found a little more on Hitler in wikipedia regarding religion, here's a sample:

Hitler supported the appointment of Ludwig Müller as Reichsbischof over the Protestant churches, hoping that he would get them to adhere to Nazi positions. After 1935 Hitler was advised by the newly-appointed Reich Minister for Church Affairs Hans Kerrl. Many Protestants who were not persuaded by argument were arrested and their property and funds confiscated. Hitler said of the Protestants "you can do anything you want with them, they will submit...

It's pretty plain the guy was a quack who just used religion as a tool to manipulate the people.

[Drea]

I found a little more on Hitler in wikipedia regarding religion, here's a sample:

It's pretty plain the guy was a quack who just used religion as a tool to manipulate the people.

You depend on Wikipedia? Wiki might be fine for looking up the meaning of "idiot" but not for a topic such as this. Wikipedia is great dictionary, but a lousy encyclopedia.

And how does being a "quack who used religion to manipulate" make him different than any other moron who uses religion to control people?

He believed "his" people were the only ones worthy of "god".

All religious people think they are the "only ones worthy". So how is he different again?

LOL you folk are too funny.

"but he wasn't a "real" Christian" you say. "But he killed people" you say.

Whatever. He still purported to believe in the invisible entity same as you. The same invisible entity that drives Islam, drives Christianity, and the same entity that drove Hitler to do what he did. Do you think he wanted to rid the earth of Jews because of their big noses?

[BubberMiley]

It's pretty plain the guy was a quack who just used religion as a tool to manipulate the people.

Religion is always used to manipulate the people. That's why it was invented.

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”

( Adolf Hitler, from John Toland [Pulitzer Prize winner], Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992, p. 507. )

[Regulus de Leo]

I get tired of this "Hitler was a Christian" nonsense. Like almost everyone in Austria born in the late 19th Century Hitler was baptized a Catholic. There is nothing Christian about Hitler's life or Naziism. No humility. No 'turn the other cheek'. No 'render unto Caesar'. No 'do unto others.' There isn't a single tenet of Christianity I can think of that applies to Hitler or the Nazi party that he created. The roots of Hitlers beliefs lie in German philosophy particularly that of Nietzsche who was an atheist.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Regulus de Leo

[cybercoma]

Being an atheist means you don't believe in theism, something which had nothing to do with Hitler or Stalin's decision making. A man who murders his daughter because she disgraced him before allah is killing BECAUSE of his religion, someone who doesn't believe in religion doesn't kill because they don't believe in religion. That makes no sense. Presumably Hitler and Stalin didn't believe in the easter bunny either, do we say that's the reason they did the horrible things they did? Of course not. It's also debatable that Hitler was a religious man, not necessarily catholic, but he was religious, but he didn't kill because of his religious beliefs either. I can't believe what stupidity some of you come up with.

I bet Paul Bernardo doesn't believe in Zeus, and neither do those posters here who believe in the Judeo-Christian god, guess what... your atheist beliefs about Zeus turned a man into a killer.

[sharkman]

You depend on Wikipedia? Wiki might be fine for looking up the meaning of "idiot" but not for a topic such as this. Wikipedia is great dictionary, but a lousy encyclopedia.

And how does being a "quack who used religion to manipulate" make him different than any other moron who uses religion to control people?

He believed "his" people were the only ones worthy of "god".

All religious people think they are the "only ones worthy". So how is he different again?

LOL you folk are too funny.

"but he wasn't a "real" Christian" you say. "But he killed people" you say.

Whatever. He still purported to believe in the invisible entity same as you. The same invisible entity that drives Islam, drives Christianity, and the same entity that drove Hitler to do what he did. Do you think he wanted to rid the earth of Jews because of their big noses?

Huh? You think a non-existent entity drove Hitler to murder 6 milion Jews? And you claim some folk are too funny. As usual, Drea, your single minded anti-Christian rants do not allow you to see the real picture. Hitler was a whacko who believed blond Germans with blue eyes were superior to the rest of the world and Jews were a disease that needed to be destroyed. He believed Jesus was not Jewish, but a super German dude.

All of this is beside the point. Atheism is just another attempt at controlling people with a system of belief. If you can prove there is no God, then the faith component is gone, but until then, you worship at a shrine just like the religious you seem to detest so much.

[BubberMiley]

All of this is beside the point. Atheism is just another attempt at controlling people with a system of belief. If you can prove there is no God, then the faith component is gone, but until then, you worship at a shrine just like the religious you seem to detest so much.

I'm not an atheist myself, because just as I don't have enough information to conclude there is a god, I don't have enough information to conclude there isn't one. I guess that makes me agnostic.

And I don't think anyone can blame agnosticism for anything nasty at all.

[Guest American Woman]

Religion is always used to manipulate the people. That's why it was invented.

Is that why it was "invented?" Hmmm. One learns something new every day.

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”

( Adolf Hitler, from John Toland [Pulitzer Prize winner], Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992, p. 507. )

I could cite many anti-Christian/anti-religious quotes from Hitler too, but instead I'll just ask you this:

Do you think Hitler was above board, trustworthy, to be taken at his word? Do you think he was making a religious statement or a propaganda statement? Which do you think meant more to him-- religion or appealing to/controlling the masses?

Now to all of you who say atheism isn't in the same catagory as religion, I'd like to point out China as an example of a nation where atheism is forced on the masses. If atheism isn't a "belief," how can it be forced on an entire nation-- on over a billion people? And how is that better than your claims that religion is being forced on people?

It's like I said, those who mock, preach, need a "voice" for their beliefs, believe they are right and have all the answers, force their beliefs on others, etc., are just the opposite side of the coin of the fundamentalist religious while thinking they are oh-so-enlightened and oh-so-different. It's truly amusing to sit back and watch all the denials.

[BubberMiley]

It's like I said, those who mock, preach, need a "voice" for their beliefs, believe they are right and have all the answers, force their beliefs on others, etc., are just the opposite side of the coin of the fundamentalist religious while thinking they are oh-so-enlightened and oh-so-different. It's truly amusing to sit back and watch all the denials.

I don't think agnostics believe they have any answers. In fact, the only belief they have is they don't. And they certainly don't force their beliefs on anyone.

But yes, religion was invented by people to manipulate people. I'm happy to have shown you the light.

Edited February 23, 2008 by BubberMiley

[Guest American Woman]

I don't think agnostics believe they have any answers. In fact, the only belief they have is they don't. And they certainly don't force their beliefs on anyone.

But yes, religion was invented by people to manipulate people. I'm happy to have shown you the light.

I see. You don't believe you have any answers-- as you claim to believe you know the answer as to why religion was "invented." Gotcha.

Edited February 23, 2008 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

I see. You don't believe you have any answers-- as you claim to believe you know the answer as to why religion was "invented."

I don't have any answers in terms of the creation of the universe because that's beyond my comprehension. The creation of religion, however, is pretty easy to deduce. I have the answers about the creation of General Motors too.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't have any answers in terms of the creation of the universe because that's beyond my comprehension. The creation of religion, however, is pretty easy to deduce. I have the answers about the creation of General Motors too.

General Motors was created to produce cars, which are real. Therefore, since you are relating religion to General Motors, and religion is to God what General Motors is to cars, God must be real too. Either that or your comparision isn't relevent.

But here's the thing. If you really don't have any answers in terms of the creation of the universe, then you don't know if God created it or not. So if you don't know if God created the universe or not, and since religion is based on belief in God and creating the universe would be a pretty big thing and therefore a pretty good reason why religion exists, your belief/claim as to why religion was "invented" (the use of "invented" regarding people's faith is really telling, and you just don't seem to get that) is amusing at best; especially in light of your claim not to know the answers.

As long as you claim to know any answers as to why everyone of faith believes in God, in other words why religion exists, as long as you mock religion, you are not agnostic, you are not tolerant, you are just the opposite side of the coin. And you just don't see it.

[Drea]

As long as you claim to know any answers as to why everyone of faith believes in God, in other words why religion exists, as long as you mock religion, you are not agnostic, you are not tolerant, you are just the opposite side of the coin. And you just don't see it.

Well your belief certainly doesn't stop you from mocking those who don't believe. And telling them what they feel.

Found this interesting site last night.

All this atheist is asking is that our public institutions not have reference to "god" as it is an unproven concept. Proven concepts only, please, in our government and our schools.

I would like for there to be no religion (I think people would be more tolerant of one another if they realized this was our only life and we'd better make the best of it), but I am not calling for religious folks to be killed, or exiled, or their meetings banned. I would also like a million dollars... I'm probably not going to get it, but that doesn't stop me from wishing for it.

You act like I have some sort of "group" behind me that is almost ready to eradicate religion off the face of the earth -- sorry to disappoint, but I am just one person on an earth of billions. So quit being so scared, so virilantly afraid of life without your "god" -- you and your beliefs are completely safe I assure you.

Watched "Rendition" last night -- excellent movie... now if those young people didn't believe in some heaven after death they would not be willing to martyr themselves.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Drea

[Guest American Woman]

Well your belief certainly doesn't stop you from mocking those who don't believe. And telling them what they feel.

Back up your accusations. Show one instance where I've mocked anyone for not believing along with one instance where I told them what they feel.

Until you do that, you're groundless accusations remain just that. :angry:

[Drea]

AW, please go back and reread my post.

Also, check out the link ... it seems to be an unbiased site.

From your posts I gather that you cannot tolerate anyone telling you that your notion of a judge in the sky is not real. You simply will not accept an opinion differing from your own.

You said:

" you are not tolerant, you are just the opposite side of the coin. And you just don't see it"

You call people fundamentalists and tell them that their "non belief" is exactly the same as the funamentalist who straps on a bomb.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Drea

[Guest American Woman]

From your posts I gather that you cannot tolerate anyone telling you that your notion of a judge in the sky is not real. You simply will not accept an opinion differing from your own.

Really? Where have I so much as insinuated that I cannot accept atheists disbelief in God? I have said quite clearly that people can believe or not believe and it makes no difference to me.

You said:

" you are not tolerant, you are just the opposite side of the coin. And you just don't see it"

Because it's true. I'm not talking about all atheists. I'm talking about those who fit the bill just as I refer to the religious who fit that bill.

You call people fundamentalists and tell them that their "non belief" is exactly the same as the funamentalist who straps on a bomb.

Really? I've told people that their non belief is the same as the fundametalists who strap on a bomb? Please show me where.

It's amazing to me how you keep attributing things to me that I never, ever said or so much as thought. I asked you once and I'll ask you again. Are you truly unable to read and grasp what I actually say or are you intentionally being dishonest? It's a serious question. Whatever the reason, your attributing things to me that are so not true is a real annoyance.

[Drea]

Please check out the link.

Its a good, informative site...

There is a link for pretty much every belief humans have come up with.

I am done arguing with you. Just check out the site -- maybe we can even find something we can agree on!

Religious Tolerance Org

Edited February 23, 2008 by Drea

[Guest American Woman]

I am done arguing with you.

So in other words, you can't back up your accusations. :angry:

[BubberMiley]

General Motors was created to satisfy a market demand for convenient transportation. Religion was created to satisfy a market demand to know what we're doing here. Therefore, religion is not to God what GM is to cars. Religion is to a sense of existential comfort to what GM is to cars.

Again, I don't presume to know the nature of the universe, but I'm well placed to understand the nature of humanity. I feel comfortable drawing conclusions about a human construct, like religion or General Motors. Just because something has been invented to take advantage of people's interest in the supernatural and extraterrestrial doesn't make it supernatural or extraterrestrial itself.

I don't mock religion. I just see it as a negative influence on humanity.

[Guest American Woman]

Religion was created to satisfy a market demand to know what we're doing here.

That's a far cry from "religion was invented by people to manipulate people."

No matter what you may think you "know," you don't have the answer as to why religion has come about any more than the next person does. Furthermore, with all the religious beliefs that have existed throughout time, I'd say religion has come about for any number of reasons. I'd also say people believe in God for any number of reasons. So you have your opinion as to why it's in existance and it's just that, your opinion, in spite of your comfort in "drawing conclusions"-- because you're conclusions are nothing more than your opinion.

But my point is, and remains, that people who claim to "know" are cut from the same cloth. Furthermore, your view that religion is a negative influence on society is just the other side of the coin of those who believe not believing in God is a negative influence on society.

Edited February 23, 2008 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

That's a far cry from "religion was invented by people to manipulate people."

No it's not. General Motors was invented to fill a demand for transportation, but the motivation behind its invention was to create wealth for its owners. Relgion was invented to fill a demand for existential comfort, but the motivation behind its invention was to create wealth and power for its clerics.

But I suppose it's just my opinion that the owners of GM wanted to generate wealth. Perhaps their motivation was to create a means to transport mankind to paradise—who am I to say? But based on my rational observation of human nature, I feel comfortable assuming their interest was in making a buck.

[Guest American Woman]

You insist on comparing religion to one company. A company that is physical and produces a physical product that serves a specific purpose. A company that was developed in recent history. Religion isn't tangible. It's faith. It doesn't produce a tangible product. It doesn't serve one purpose. It was in existance eons ago. There's no comparison. The fact that you think religion is comparable to a factory/company says a lot, imo.

But the fact remains, no matter how comfortable you feel drawing your conclusions about the origin of religion, it's just that. Your opinion. The fact that you apparently can't see that makes you no different from the religious who claim to "know" whatever it is they claim to know, and no matter how many times I repeat that, you still can't seem to fathom it-- which only makes you more and more like 'them.'

So have your opinion. But until you recognize it for that, until you recognize that it's only your opinion, there is no separating you from anyone of any belief who thinks they have "the answers;" who think that "they know." Because I hate to break it to you, but the fundamentalists among the religious are just as "comfortable" drawing their "conclusions" as you are. Do you honestly not see that?

Edited February 23, 2008 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

You insist on comparing religion to one company. A company that is physical and produces a physical product that serves a specific purpose. A company that was developed in recent history. Religion isn't tangible. It's faith. It doesn't produce a tangible product. It doesn't serve one purpose. It was in existance eons ago. There's no comparison. The fact that you think religion is comparable to a factory/company says a lot, imo.

That's the key difference: you seem to view religion as intangible and supernatural; I see it as a completely tangible human-made product, like a corporation, that was invented to fill a market demand and generate power and influence. The fact that I have formed that conclusion doesnt make me a fundamentalist any more than my beliefs about GM make me a fundamentalist.

By your logic, aren't you the same as the fundamentalists in your refusal to believe that sacrificing virgins to the Sun-God is what the creator wants?

Edited February 23, 2008 by BubberMiley