Bush's $140bn stimulus package

[bush_cheney2004]

...facts are what facts are, the American banks saved there own necks, as stated in one of the articles.

accountability to shareholders etc.,

If you really believe that, then keep playing the victim. Once a sucker...always a sucker. If the "globe" is so dependent on the wicked American economic engine, then they deserve to suck on it even when the teat runs dry.

[kuzadd]

If you really believe that, then keep playing the victim. Once a sucker...always a sucker. If the "globe" is so dependent on the wicked American economic engine, then they deserve to suck on it even when the teat runs dry.

I'll quote from an article

The Wall Street banks that foresaw problems say they hedged their mortgage positions as part of their fiduciary duty to shareholders.

as for global dependance:

LOL, the US ensures the globe is dependant now doesn't it?

What with the US dollar being the denomination of all trade.

Thereby ensuring dependancy by other countries.

Then there is always the fact of How many military bases world-wide?

To ensure dependance.

Then there is the world bank?

All instruments of dependance, dictating all manner of policy to gain favour from the US

But surely YOU know that all, anyway.

BTW: i love your adjective use, wicked , victim, sucker. funny!

Edited January 27, 2008 by kuzadd

[bush_cheney2004]

LOL, the US ensures the globe is dependant now doesn't it?

What with the US dollar being the denomination of all trade.

Thereby ensuring dependancy by other countries.

But surely YOU know that, anyway.

BTW: i love your adjective use, wicked , victim, sucker.

You're not making any sense. Months ago, you claimed that the US was irrelevant. Now it ensures dependency?

This is what happens when all you do is pee on America for all things.

[kuzadd]

You're not making any sense. Months ago, you claimed that the US was irrelevant. Now it ensures dependency?

This is what happens when all you do is pee on America for all things.

Months ago , I claimed the US WILL/or IS BECOME/ING irrelevant , and/or is growing in irelevance, and this mess will help it along.

All empires fall, as mine did, yours is too.

[bush_cheney2004]

Months ago , I claimed the US WILL/or IS BECOME/ING irrelevant , and/or is growing in irelevance, and this mess will help it along.

Of course...it WILL be irrelevant, except when it is not irrelevant. How convenient...whether it be monetary policy, climate change, foreign military sales, equity markets, imports/exports, World Bank, etc.

All empires fall, as mine did, yours is too.

Chorus: 'Tis better to have been a superpower and lost, than never to have been one at all. Is life so bad in your fallen empire, like France, UK, Germany, and Japan?

[kuzadd]

the topic of the US dragging the world down, seems to be on the mind of the people at Davo's,not just mine, it additionally seems to be on the minds of other people also, as any perusal through the business section will find.

A full-blown, prolonged recession in America is now inescapable, with the rest of the world set to be dragged into a severe global slowdown

Therefore, hopefully BC your hissy is over and we can get back to topic?

[Guest American Woman]

What exactly is the topic?-- That the U.S. is headed for a recession? That's it's 'good for the arrogant U.S.' that it's headed for a recession? That it's bad that the rest of the world is going to get hit also? That the U.S. deserves its recession but the rest of the world is innocent and it's the fault of the U.S. that their economy is going to suffer too?

Maybe I'm missing something here, and if I am I apologize, but that's how it reads to me.

[bush_cheney2004]

the topic of the US dragging the world down, seems to be on the mind of the people at Davo's,not just mine, it additionally seems to be on the minds of other people also, as any perusal through the business section will find.

Therefore, hopefully BC your hissy is over and we can get back to topic?

The topic is an American stimulus package for the American economy to put American rebates into the pockets of American consumers, the same as was done in 2001. Not worldwide dollar hegemony, rise and fall of empires, or your obsession with the irrelevant USA that will bring the "world down".

President Bush and the US Congress not only issued rebates but cut taxes as well to stem economic downturn that started in 2000, and it worked. Do you only pee on the United States when markets fall, but never give credit when they rise?

[kuzadd]

What exactly is the topic?-- That the U.S. is headed for a recession? That's it's 'good for the arrogant U.S.' that it's headed for a recession? That it's bad that the rest of the world is going to get hit also? That the U.S. deserves its recession but the rest of the world is innocent and it's the fault of the U.S. that their economy is going to suffer too?

Maybe I'm missing something here, and if I am I apologize, but that's how it reads to me.

If it reads that way to you, you are most defintely misreading.

If you wish to show me where anyone has stated it is 'good for the arrogant US' I would love to see it.?

it is ,in fact, if true going to be extremely detrimental to many, many Americans!

In fact one could say, a great many americans are already suffering from the sub-prime fall-out.

As are entire states (suing big banks etc.,)

That is the sad reality.

The sad reality is also, that the Bush administration has played a solid and starring role in inflicting misery on it's own people.

But additionaly is it bad that the rest of the world may possibly get dragged along.

Because citizens of other countries will/are pay dearly for costly mistakes made in the US.

That they infact had zero to do with.

sub-prime, fraudulent investment sales, useless wars, so forth and so on

Edited January 27, 2008 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

The topic is an American stimulus package for the American economy to put American rebates into the pockets of American consumers, the same as was done in 2001. Not worldwide dollar hegemony, rise and fall of empires, or your obsession with the irrelevant USA that will bring the "world down".

President Bush and the US Congress not only issued rebates but cut taxes as well to stem economic downturn that started in 2000, and it worked. Do you only pee on the United States when markets fall, but never give credit when they rise?

the topic is partially about the stimulus package but it is additionaly about the conditions that brought about the necessity of such stimulus package.

falling stock markets

sub-prime

etc.,

[bush_cheney2004]

...But additionaly is it bad that the rest of the world may possibly get dragged along.

Because citizens of other countries will/are pay dearly for costly mistakes made in the US.

That they infact had zero to do with.

sub-prime, fraudulent investment sales, useless wars, so forth and so on

What a load of crap! If it was your intention to slag Bush and the Americans just do it without the pretense of a thread about an American stim package. We know your game by now, no reason to be coy.

When Asia went belly up did you blame them too? Or how about the Russian Federation when the ruble collapsed in the late '90's? Or Japan which is only now coming out of a decade long funk?

The Russian financial crisis (also called "Rouble crisis") hit Russia in August 17 1998. It was exacerbated by the global recession of 1998, which started with the Asian financial crisis in July 1997. Given the ensuing decline in world commodity prices, countries heavily dependent on the export of raw materials, such as oil, were among those most severely hit. -Wiki

The "citizens of other countries" have nothing to do with this American issue, which may or may not lead to a recession.

Edited January 27, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Alexandra]

the topic of the US dragging the world down, seems to be on the mind of the people at Davo's,not just mine, it additionally seems to be on the minds of other people also, as any perusal through the business section will find.

Therefore, hopefully BC your hissy is over and we can get back to topic?

Being an obvious unsophisticated world markets person with a bias and cherry picking whatever negative anti-American quotes to be found is truly pathetic. A mere glance through the closing market reports from Friday, January 25 refutes all of the trash talk in all of the Kuzzad posts. For instance:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/markets/europe

Sitaraman Shankar

LONDON, Jan 25 (Reuters) - Banks, technology and commodity stocks got European stock markets off to a punchy start on Friday, as a speedy agreement on a U.S. economic stimulus package helped lift shares worldwide.

At 0924 GMT, the FTSEurofirst 300 index of top European shares was up 1.1 percent at 1,345.15 points, adding to a 5.4-percent leap on Thursday, and tracking sharp gains in Asia.

and,

-JP Morgan CEO sees end in sight to housing downturn

Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:32am EST

DAVOS, Switzerland, Jan 27 (Reuters) - The effects of the U.S. housing downturn and troubles in the subprime mortgage market will cure themselves and the job is "half-done already", JP Morgan Chase (JPM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Chief Executive Jamie Dimon said.

"There was a housing bubble in the United States. The bubble burst and subprime was first casualty," he told a closing panel at the World Economic Forum, a gathering of policymakers and business leaders in the Swiss resort of Davos.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20080127?rpc=44

The most sensational news to affect all of the Euro attendees at Davos in fact was the Societe Generale bank fraud of over $7Billion by one of their traders. You must have missed all of that NEWS about the French Bank Kuzzadd in your 'perusal' of the financial news! Too busy giggling over whatever negative items on the U.S. markets you could possibly find? Try studying the world markets on a daily basis. You just might learn something about the world outside of your own small tent!

`

[kuzadd]

oh, boy my fans are out!

autographs available for a fee of course.

Bush/Cheney , I expect you to be first in line!

The sad reality is other's(business press read it) are looking at US mismanagement as the crisis precipitator.

I am reiterating what is in the press world-wide,

but check it out for yourself.

If you do not agree with that perhaps you should write to all the business editors and have them change their reporting?

From reporting of what is going on, to reporting of what will make you as an American feel better?

headline this a.m.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080128/world_markets.html

Asian Markets Plunge on US Recession Fears;

"Global markets dropped sharply early last week on worries about slower U.S. growth."

how horrible of this article!

If it was your intention to slag Bush and the Americans just do it without the pretense of a thread about an American stim package. We know your game by now, no reason to be coy.

BUT, since that wasn't my intention , I felt no need to do that.

thanks for demonstrating the flaw in your own theory

"we know your game by now"

LOL! are you paranoid or what?

You know nothing, you THINK you KNOW.

how childish.

You know what they say about assuming?

Edited January 28, 2008 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

Being an obvious unsophisticated world markets person with a bias and cherry picking whatever negative anti-American quotes to be found is truly pathetic. A mere glance through the closing market reports from Friday, January 25 refutes all of the trash talk in all of the Kuzzad posts. For instance:

and,

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20080127?rpc=44

The most sensational news to affect all of the Euro attendees at Davos in fact was the Societe Generale bank fraud of over $7Billion by one of their traders. You must have missed all of that NEWS about the French Bank Kuzzadd in your 'perusal' of the financial news! Too busy giggling over whatever negative items on the U.S. markets you could possibly find? Try studying the world markets on a daily basis. You just might learn something about the world outside of your own small tent!

`

Oh this is the kuzadd thread now is it?

autographs available for a fee

[bush_cheney2004]

....BUT, since that wasn't my intention , I felt no need to do that.

thanks for demonstrating the flaw in your own theory

"we know your game by now"

LOL! are you paranoid or what?

You know nothing, you THINK you KNOW.

how childish.

You know what they say about assuming?

So when do we get to read about the "Bush $140bn" stim package, instead of your regurgitated "paranoia" and "fear" about what is happening in the US economy. Seems to me that the one who is whining the most started this thread just to do so.

Be afraid....be very afraid. Boo!

Edited January 28, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[kuzadd]

Professor Stiglitz blamed the whole US economic establishment for failing to regulate the housing and credit markets adequately, allowing huge imbalances to build up.

"The Federal Reserve and the Bush Administration didn't want to hear anything about these problems. The Fed has finally got around to closing the stable door (on subprime lending), but the after the horse has already bolted," he said.

Bad Joseph Stiglitz, bad, he should retract his statement, and say it in a 'feel good" sort of way.

[kuzadd]

So when do we get to read about the "Bush $140bn" stim package, instead of your regurgitated "paranoia" and "fear" about what is happening in the US economy. Seems to me that the one who is whining the most started this thread just to do so.

Be afraid....be very afraid. Boo!

LOL, the paranoia and fear is yours.

You have had ample opportunity to tell anyone here, what you think about the stimulus package and discuss the economic conditions that necessitated this package and the rate cut.

You chose otherwise

[bush_cheney2004]

LOL, the paranoia and fear is yours.

You have had ample opportunity to tell anyone here, what you think about the stimulus package and discuss the economic conditions that necessitated this package and the rate cut.

You chose otherwise

I already have.....in the way of previous rebates and tax cuts, which proved to be very effective after a downturn in 2000 and terrorist attack in 2001. I wonder what caused that...Governor Bush? LOL!

I won't even get a rebate check because of adjusted gross income, but I will still benefit. Whatever you do in Canada is your business.

[GostHacked]

so, again, where is this money comming from to inject into the American Economy? The privately owned Federal Reserve??? So each dollar automatically comes with a debt? How is this going to stimulate the economy??

They had saved 140 billion in the bank for this kind of a rainy day??

So again, where does this money come from, and what strings are attactched to the money?

[M.Dancer]

The privately owned Federal Reserve???

Not another one.....

Who owns the Federal Reserve?

The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the U.S. Congress. It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms. However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress, which periodically reviews its activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Also, the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."

The twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized much like private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#5

FACT: The Federal Reserve does not control the tinfoil supplies......

[bush_cheney2004]

so, again, where is this money comming from to inject into the American Economy? The privately owned Federal Reserve??? So each dollar automatically comes with a debt? How is this going to stimulate the economy??

They had saved 140 billion in the bank for this kind of a rainy day??

So again, where does this money come from, and what strings are attactched to the money?

Not sure what you mean.....where does the money "come from" for Medicare, or Medicaid, or NASA, or (name any fother US federal outlay). All such "spending" contributes to an eventual budget deficit that is made up by several debt instruments like bonds and treasuries. The USA has never defaulted on such instruments AFAIK.

Specific to this issue, the US Congress will appropriate funding for the legislation if it passes. Expect some additional pork on the side as opposed to a "clean bill".

See Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 for an example of how it's done.

[Topaz]

When Bush came to the White House the US had a surplus, correct? Bush created a war and when a country is at war how can you cut taxes when your expenditures to the military especially is going with the roof? I thought the US debt was 4 Trillion but the other night on the news its said 9 trillion!! The business news said the US enter a recession in December but with business if no one says the word, then recession doesn't start official until the Treasurer says so. I really don't know how the next President is, is going to be able to get the country out of the mess its in. The whole truth about the US economy won't be known until the next government takes over and there Bush's views are ....that's the next guy problem!!

[bush_cheney2004]

When Bush came to the White House the US had a surplus, correct? Bush created a war and when a country is at war how can you cut taxes when your expenditures to the military especially is going with the roof?

Correct....there was a budget surplus of about $220 billion including excess Social Security "revenues". The US financed WW2 with 100% budget deficits and lots of debt.

I thought the US debt was 4 Trillion but the other night on the news its said 9 trillion!! The business news said the US enter a recession in December but with business if no one says the word, then recession doesn't start official until the Treasurer says so.

US public debt is well documented and the ceiling is routinely raised by Congres. A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth. Has nothing to do with the "Treasurer".

I really don't know how the next President is, is going to be able to get the country out of the mess its in. The whole truth about the US economy won't be known until the next government takes over and there Bush's views are ....that's the next guy problem!!

Hmmm...then why do they want to be president so bad? I'm sure President Bush was pleased as punch to get Clinton's "problems" (terror attacks, DPRK, Iraq, Iran, Mideast, etc.)

[kuzadd]

so, again, where is this money comming from to inject into the American Economy? The privately owned Federal Reserve??? So each dollar automatically comes with a debt? How is this going to stimulate the economy??

They had saved 140 billion in the bank for this kind of a rainy day??

So again, where does this money come from, and what strings are attactched to the money?

the money is coming from the printing presses.

Ben Bernanke has made that clear.

I do mean Helicopter Ben.

Who believes in the printing press, as he has made clear in action and in words.