Why Is Canada So Poor?

[White Doors]

We are poorer than we should be. We are below our potential.

If you travel abroad to other rich countries and then return to Canada, you will perhaps realize this.

Another cultural explanation:

In Canada a good % of the population chases for the dream CUPE gov't job while in the states they dream of starting their own business.

generaliztion? sure, but that doesn't make it less true.

[White Doors]

bing-bing!

that excuse has been used for years now and it's weaker now than when they first started using it.

[Wild Bill]

that excuse has been used for years now and it's weaker now than when they first started using it.

+1! I worked in business for years and heard this crap all the time. The unspoken "rest of the story" goes like this:

"Because of our disadvantages you have to set me and a few other guys up in a protected oligopoly! In return we'll be sure to make political donations!"

So we have banks and insurance companies protected at home from foreign competition while they are free to go out into the great wide world to buy up or compete with foreign companies on their home turf.

I live by Hamilton, Ontario. This is a city with great problems, having failed to replace lost manufacturing business with "new wave" over the years. The standard joke going around about my city goes like this:

"When a new business approaches most cities they roll out the red carpet. Hamilton rolls out the red tape!"

This problem in philosophy runs all the way to the federal level, in too many cases.

[rbacon]

The average Canadian middle class taxpayer, now pays more in taxes than they do for Food, Shelter, Clothing and Transportation combined. We are over governed. Taxes to support Government is taking food from families mouths. Big Government is the problem not the solution.

[mikedavid00]

The average Canadian middle class taxpayer, now pays more in taxes than they do for Food, Shelter, Clothing and Transportation combined. We are over governed. Taxes to support Government is taking food from families mouths. Big Government is the problem not the solution.

I agree

[Dissident]

Canada: Pop 30,007,094

USA: Pop 300,000,000

California alone draws taxes from 30 million people.

[Guest American Woman]

It's true that the U.S. has a higher population than Canada and therefore takes in tax money from more people, but it also means that the U.S. has more people to accomodate.

[Dissident]

True. But your 300 million is bit more concentrated. Reducing the cost of infrastructure. Our 30 million has to come up with some kind of infrastructure covering an area the roughly the same size of the US. For example building a railway from the east coast to the west coast would cost 300 million individual taxpayers less than it would cost 30 million individual taxpayers. It doesn't help our 30 million is so spread out over such a large area. Transportation cost s, shipping etc.

[Guest American Woman]

True. But your 300 million is bit more concentrated. Reducing the cost of infrastructure. Our 30 million has to come up with some kind of infrastructure covering an area the roughly the same size of the US. For example building a railway from the east coast to the west coast would cost 300 million individual taxpayers less than it would cost 30 million individual taxpayers. It doesn't help our 30 million is so spread out over such a large area. Transportation cost s, shipping etc.

Your 30 million isn't spread out over such a large area though; 90% if it is within 100 miles of the U.S. border. That's very concentrated, so I'm sure most of your infrastructure is located within that area. So while you have to build a railroad from east to west, you don't have to have north-south routes to the degree that the U.S. does. In other words, while you have 10% of our population, what percentage of Canada's land is developed to the extent that the U.S. is?

[bush_cheney2004]

It's true that the U.S. has a higher population than Canada and therefore takes in tax money from more people, but it also means that the U.S. has more people to accomodate.

This is closer to the real answer, but for reasons not apparent. Canada is poorer because it has lower productivity per worker, far less domestic capital, and far less tolerance for government budget deficits. However, Canada is not "poor", and comparisons to the richest nation on earth are not warranted, even if habitual.

[rbacon]

Entitlement programs starting with the Trudeau era, and ending in $4,000,000,000,000.00 in total public debt with an actual base of about 15M actual taxpayers. Pretty well seals our fate. The Canadian Taxpayer suffers under a burden of rules and laws and regulations that is in excess of 550,000 PAGES, you need an extension ladder to reach the top page. All this paper is shuffled by union scale Public servants. About 40% of every taxdollar extorted from the rightful owners the people goes into supporting a bloated, Gubmint. The average Public Servant earns 48% more in real wages and benefits than the same worker in private industry. We are overtaxed and over governed and over regulated. We need to end about 60% of all Gubmint programs, and fire 60% of Gubmint workers. Get back to the basics. Let people take care of themselves more and leave them enough of their own property to do that.

[geoffrey]

The average Public Servant earns 48% more in real wages and benefits than the same worker in private industry.

Do you have evidence to support that? I wouldn't doubt it, but I'm curious to see the basis of that statistic.

[Borg]

Why Is Canada So Poor?

Well it has a huge debt generated initially by that horrible little man - PE Trudeau - so glad he is not around anymore. As are the vast majority of people who live west of ontario. He was the worst thing that happened to canada in the last half of the 1900's.

That debt was made larger and larger by even more liberal governments. Some cons but mostly libs.

Taxes were generated by all governments to feed the socialist people of this country that cry out for more and more government money.

We invite people into this country that are now - in my belief - a net expense - people who live here for minimal time and collect various government pensions, people who require language training and job training, people who refuse to integrate into society and live in cultural enclaves - then demand services in their language, people who come here to collect the pensions and then leave with that money to live in other countries, extended family members who come here for the free medical care, people who are Canadians of convenience (how many 1000's in Leb?) and come here when sick otherwise live elsewhere - and my new favourite - hog town islamics collecting my tax dollar so they can screw three additional women and have kids fast enough to keep fresh welfare money flowing into their bank account. Worst of all - we cannot even find those who have - after many years - been ordered deported.

Unions who demand raises to the point we lose jobs.

Companies who are headquartered outside our borders who take our money out of country.

Prices on the rise due to energy cost increases even though we are a net exporter.

Housing costs and land costs rising.

Medical and professional people leaving for better lives - they see what is happening here and realize they cannot change it.

Failing infrastructure from coast to coast.

And the beat goes on.

If life and the economy are so good - why should the average joe be required to work now - until - early July for the all the taxes to governments?

The only way to encourage growth is to allow the salaried person to actually keep some money in theri pockets.

Incredibly poor productivity because of the culture of entitlement.

You eat an elephant one bite at a time.

canada is slowly being eaten by those who take out more than they put in. and no one truly is willing to yell "stop".

All in the name of tolerance.

That is why we are poor.

Borg

Edited February 17, 2008 by Borg

[capricorn]

The average Public Servant earns 48% more in real wages and benefits than the same worker in private industry.

According to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the figure is 23.3%.

Federal employees in public administration enjoy a 15.1% wage premium over their private sector counterparts—23.3% when

non-wage benefits are included

http://fcei.ca/research/reports/WW_AB.pdf

rbacon I agree the federal public service is bloated and needs to be trimmed.

[margrace]

I get tired of the constant whinning of people who have it so good. What you need and what you want are entirely different. All you are entitled to in this world is a warm place to sleep in freedom, a full stomach when you do go to bed and the knowledge that you are safe. Everything else is coincidental.

Most of you probably have good jobs that are satisfying, what more could you need.

Would Canadian please stop complaining you live in the best country in the world and all you do is bitch.

Edited February 17, 2008 by margrace

[Borg]

I get tired of the constant whinning of people who have it so good. What you need and what you want are entirely different. All you are entitled to in this world is a warm place to sleep in freedom, a full stomach when you do go to bed and the knowledge that you are safe. Everything else is coincidental.

Most of you probably have good jobs that are satisfying, what more could you need.

Would Canadian please stop complaining you live in the best country in the world and all you do is bitch.

Who's bitching?

The question was asked and it was answered.

Pretty straight forward.

As for quality of country - well there was a time when I would have agreed - not so sure now.

Borg

[Guest American Woman]

I don't understand this "we live in the best country in the world" attitude no matter where it is coming from. There are a lot of pretty good countries in the world. Can't say any one is "the best."

[margrace]

Well if a country is getting put down then one says how they feel. I don't believe Canada is poor so I said so.

Canadians for a long time have taken their country for granted. We should be touting it greatness.

[Dissident]

Your 30 million isn't spread out over such a large area though; 90% if it is within 100 miles of the U.S. border. That's very concentrated, so I'm sure most of your infrastructure is located within that area.

Your right the majority of it rides along the border, but there is still plenty further north. Which would costly to build and maintain due to an even more severe climate.

But still with the pop mostly along the border. Its a very long border, your talking allot of territory, it swallows 30 million easily. We are very spread out except for a few spots like for example southwestern Ontario.

I guess I'm not much of a car guy but i find even the drives within southwestern Ontario long and boring at times. And yes the states has vast expanses of land as well I realize that. I learned a good car stereo is your best friend. But I will never forget the time our family had relatives from England for a visit, who when taken to various spots, would keep asking our we there yet. lol

Anyway its probably part of Canada's challenges not the sole reason why Canada is heavily taxed or perceived to be poor.

I like my country. I don't see it as being poor. I see examples of wealth and beauty every day. Every country has its positives and negatives.

[Guest American Woman]

My point in regards to "more people to accomodate" means we do have to have more roads, highways, schools, etc. because of our higher population, so I'm guessing we both have legitimate points.

I like my country. I don't see it as being poor. I see examples of wealth and beauty every day. Every country has its positives and negatives.

I agree. Every country does have its positives and negatives. That was my only point regarding my "greatest country in the world" comments. As for seeing Canada as poor, I certainly don't see it that way either. I think it's a great country.

[Borg]

My point in regards to "more people to accomodate" means we do have to have more roads, highways, schools, etc. because of our higher population, so I'm guessing we both have legitimate points.

I agree. Every country does have its positives and negatives. That was my only point regarding my "greatest country in the world" comments. As for seeing Canada as poor, I certainly don't see it that way either. I think it's a great country.

Sure, and we have sold it all to foreign ownership - all in the name of tolerance.

Ask the auto working and manufacturing folks in Ontario how they feel about things right now.

Borg

[Topaz]

Sure, and we have sold it all to foreign ownership - all in the name of tolerance.

Ask the auto working and manufacturing folks in Ontario how they feel about things right now.

Borg

Good question Borg and I noticed you never mention our dear former PM that did more damage to Canada than what you are accusing Trudeau of doing. I'm talking about MULRONEY. He added to the country's debt 43 Bil, had the biggest government ever, did more damage with the FREE Trade. We now know it wasn't free...well not to the people, only to the corporations he sold Canada out to! There was more corruption under Mulroney then we'll ever be told about. As far as the auto sector goes, the biggest proble was when the governments at all level let the Auto Pact expire. Canada needs that back so any auto sold here is made here.

[blueblood]

I have a question, are the Toyota, Nissan, etc. (Japanese/foreign owned) auto plants in Canada unionized by the CAW? I was wondering because there sure are a few popping up and I know those Toyota Tundras can't fit in a crate.

If these plants were not unionized then it would appear old Buzz is on crack as since the market share is slipping from the big 3, the workers are now working at non-unionized plants.

[Cuba's Friend]

Well August 1991,

I guess you are not well traveled, particularly south of the 49th around the world to say what you did. Sure we have some road problems and this has been discussed before about -20°C and more and inadequate subsurface under our Can#1 as example. But I truly believe that Canada is by a good chunk richer then our fellow friends down south.

If you consider the accumulated deficit and current crisis in the US economy and banking system, I am glad (for a while until the US misery hits our economy) to live in Canada and like to stay if I can.

Please note, I am not a Canadian citizen, only landed immigrant, because I have not had the hard to give my citizenship away, yet, even so my wife and children are Canadians.

I have seen many part of the the World, including the US and I stay here! Because I love this country and its way of living and not telling the rest of the world what to do and when to do it.

Kind regards,

JK

[geoffrey]

I have a question, are the Toyota, Nissan, etc. (Japanese/foreign owned) auto plants in Canada unionized by the CAW? I was wondering because there sure are a few popping up and I know those Toyota Tundras can't fit in a crate.

If these plants were not unionized then it would appear old Buzz is on crack as since the market share is slipping from the big 3, the workers are now working at non-unionized plants.

Those plants are not unionized, far more productive, have more satisfied employees and the companies pay less per employee. That's why they make money and the big 3 do not.

Union automaking doesn't work anymore.

If you consider the accumulated deficit

The U.S. national debt is smaller than Canada's when measured as a % of GDP.

and current crisis in the US economy and banking system

That was a bank policy issue, not a government one. It could happen here. Many companies were hugely affected by ABCP in Canada as well.