Afghanistan

[AngusThermopyle]

I am pretty sick of some of the Americans and Canadian Traitors on here.

I served my country for 20 years, so I'm a traitor? What have you done?

As I stated, we honour our fallen. The Flag has never been posted at half mast before for every service member who falls , why should we start now and in general cheapen our cherished rituals of respect?

Just because you have no knowledge of the manner in which we honour our fallen does not mean it doesn't happen. Just because some have the good sense to realize that our rituals should not be turned into some tacky cheap public display for the consumption and titillation of the masses does not make them a traitor.

Admittedly I, on a personal note take your statement as being extremely offensive, however that does not change the reality of what I am saying.

[M.Dancer]

The first thing that Mr. Bush's little pastsy Harper did was to stop the lowering of the flag.

What nonsense....

[jbg]

Paul Watson, that sweet and gentle man, commenting on the deaths of sealers said something to the effect that while their deaths were tragic, of course, they weren't as tragic as those poor baby seals they murdered. "They're vicious killers," he said.

What they're doing in Saskatchewan with those seals in the annual spring hunt, even now, as we speak, under way is unspeakable.

I bring it up only for comparison purposes, because that is pretty much how the left feels about soldiers. The idea that the NDP and BQ banded together with the Liberals because they wanted to pay homage to fallen soldiers is laughable and ludicrous. It's cheap theatre for the dummies. They feel about as much sympathy and sorrow for dead soldiers as Watson does for dead sealers.

Exactly. Similar to Jane Fonda's movie, "Coming Home" where she shows so much compassion for the psychological condition of traumatized returning Vets. Far more compassion than she showed by making propaganda broadcasts for the North Vietnamese government, in Hanoi, in July 1972.

[Wilber]

Under this policy, if Canada is ever involved in another major war, the flag will be at half mast for the duration. Four years and six years in the case of the two world wars making the gesture meaningless.

After 30 years of Liberal neglect they have the gall to make these accusations against the government which in just two years has gone a long way to return our military to its former level of respect. Instead of standing up to be counted on real issues such as the budget and others where they would have to walk the walk, they play stupid political games with soldiers lives and the country's flag. Pitiful.

jbg's toilet seat analogy is perfect. Not only does it accurately describe the action but the party which proposed it.

[capricorn]

And if the Conservatives had been the party to move that the flag be lowered with every military or law enforcement casualty, all the opposition parties would have moaned that the Conservatives are cheapening the memory of the fallen. I would take bets on it.

[Topaz]

Today a radio station had a poll on this and very few were against it. 73% on Yahoo wanted it lowered and I agree with them! I think politics is playing here as far as Harper goes because if we lower the flag every time a Canadian dies it will be a reminder of how many are really dying. Just like the fact that Bush wouldn't allow the media to show the caskets coming back from Iraq! If the majority of Canadians want the flag lowered and the vote in the House voted that way, then who does Harper think he is?? Call an election he's looking more like a dictator everyday!! IF Harper can change the rules on anything he wants then Canadians can change the rules here!

[Alta4ever]

Today a radio station had a poll on this and very few were against it. 73% on Yahoo wanted it lowered and I agree with them! I think politics is playing here as far as Harper goes because if we lower the flag every time a Canadian dies it will be a reminder of how many are really dying. Just like the fact that Bush wouldn't allow the media to show the caskets coming back from Iraq! If the majority of Canadians want the flag lowered and the vote in the House voted that way, then who does Harper think he is?? Call an election he's looking more like a dictator everyday!! IF Harper can change the rules on anything he wants then Canadians can change the rules here!

This crap really pisses me off this whole thing was nothing but politicizing the military. It is shameful especially when it epmty, this coming form the party that completely gutted our military, and then had the gall to send them into a conflict they were ill equiped for. This is shameful, if you want to honour those that have made the great sacarfice, go down to the local Legion find a vet and say thank-you, forget about the lowering of flags, and the showing of caskets, find a vet and say thank you, or if you know the solders family, thank them for their son or daughters sacrafice, it means so much more then just an epmty gesture.

The publicizing of this from the media is shameful, they are just using the solders to sell papers.

[Alta4ever]

Today a radio station had a poll on this and very few were against it. 73% on Yahoo wanted it lowered and I agree with them! I think politics is playing here as far as Harper goes because if we lower the flag every time a Canadian dies it will be a reminder of how many are really dying. Just like the fact that Bush wouldn't allow the media to show the caskets coming back from Iraq! If the majority of Canadians want the flag lowered and the vote in the House voted that way, then who does Harper think he is?? Call an election he's looking more like a dictator everyday!! IF Harper can change the rules on anything he wants then Canadians can change the rules here!

You said it here yourself it's not about honouring the solders its about showing just how many are dying, and the media does this just fine.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Alta4ever

[charter.rights]

This crap really pisses me off this whole thing was nothing but politicizing the military. It is shameful especially when it epmty, this coming form the party that completely gutted our military, and then had the gall to send them into a conflict they were ill equiped for. This is shameful, if you want to honour those that have made the great sacarfice, go down to the local Legion find a vet and say thank-you, forget about the lowering of flags, and the showing of caskets, find a vet and say thank you, or if you know the solders family, thank them for their son or daughters sacrafice, it means so much more then just an epmty gesture.

The publicizing of this from the media is shameful, they are just using the solders to sell papers.

The Conservatives prove once again that they don't give a damn about democracy. The Bill passed and Harper promptly stated they wouldn't do it. It was a democratic decision that must be adhered to. Whether anyone likes it or not is moot.

Personally I agree with it. In this day and age when we are prompted "never to forget" it is prudent to remind us all that every single death that occurs in war should never be forgotten. If we are going to morbidly line our highways and change the name of a major highway to the "Highway of Heros" then a small gesture by those that sent them to be killed should be required. "Lest we never forget" that war has a horrible price to pay. This isn't about flags. It is about young men and women who will never be seen by their families again.

Edited April 4, 2008 by charter.rights

[Wilber]

This crap really pisses me off this whole thing was nothing but politicizing the military. It is shameful especially when it epmty, this coming form the party that completely gutted our military, and then had the gall to send them into a conflict they were ill equiped for. This is shameful, if you want to honour those that have made the great sacarfice, go down to the local Legion find a vet and say thank-you, forget about the lowering of flags, and the showing of caskets, find a vet and say thank you, or if you know the solders family, thank them for their son or daughters sacrafice, it means so much more then just an epmty gesture.

The publicizing of this from the media is shameful, they are just using the solders to sell papers.

The Liberals are masters at politicizing the military, that's how we wound up with more people based in Ottawa than on all our ships and regular army regiments combined.

[Alta4ever]

The Conservatives prove once again that they don't give a damn about democracy. The Bill passed and Harper promptly stated they wouldn't do it. It was a democratic decision that must be adhered to. Whether anyone likes it or not is moot.

Personally I agree with it. In this day and age when we are prompted "never to forget" it is prudent to remind us all that every single death that occurs in war should never be forgotten. If we are going to morbidly line our highways and change the name of a major highway to the "Highway of Heros" then a small gesture by those that sent them to be killed should be required. "Lest we never forget" that war has a horrible price to pay. This isn't about flags. It is about young men and women who will never be seen by their families again.

This is not about men and women who will never be seen by their families this is about men and women who laid down their lives for their countrymen. By flying the flag at half mast for every soldier over and over it looses all meaning. We have a special holiday to honour these people, when we gather together for a day to say thank you, and remeber what they gave their lives for. But over time this has even lost meaning, its now just the holiday in novemeber to get a day off work. It is pathetic, next time you see a veteran say thank you.

[Wilber]

The Conservatives prove once again that they don't give a damn about democracy. The Bill passed and Harper promptly stated they wouldn't do it. It was a democratic decision that must be adhered to. Whether anyone likes it or not is moot.

Unlike the morons across the floor who let the military get to the point of rust out and want to play politics at their expense (some habits die hard), the present government gives enough of a damn to finally get the equipment they need to do the jobs we demand of them. That is showing them real respect. The government is responsible for doing the right thing and hopefully will be held accountable for how they do that, not the stupid gamesmanship that goes on in Parliament. If the opposition truly feels this issue is important enough, they should put forward a non confidence motion to that effect.

[capricorn]

Today a radio station had a poll on this and very few were against it.

I bet that most who voted for lowering the flag for every casualty probably haven't given serious thought to the issue before responding. In addition, these people do not want to appear unappreciative of those who lay down their lives for their country. So by voting in favour of lowering the flag, they feel they are demonstrating the correct emotion. That's what it is, an emotional reaction rather than a well thought out response.

And about those polls, there have been many and they have not resulted in uniform outcomes which varied across the country.

[normanchateau]

Unlike the morons across the floor who let the military get to the point of rust out and want to play politics at their expense (some habits die hard), the present government gives enough of a damn to finally get the equipment they need to do the jobs we demand of them.

Let's put this in perspective. Under Chretien, Canada spent 1.0% of GDP on military spending versus 1.2% under Harper. Under Trudeau, it was 2.0%. Even as a function of % federal government expenditures on military spending, Trudeau far outspent Harper, Mulroney and Chretien:

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=141640

[charter.rights]

I bet that most who voted for lowering the flag for every casualty probably haven't given serious thought to the issue before responding. In addition, these people do not want to appear unappreciative of those who lay down their lives for their country. So by voting in favour of lowering the flag, they feel they are demonstrating the correct emotion. That's what it is, an emotional reaction rather than a well thought out response.

And about those polls, there have been many and they have not resulted in uniform outcomes which varied across the country.

Nevertheless, there was a vote taken and the Bill passed. Now the government is obligated to follow the requirement.

Military spending is relative. The Conservatives are hawkish and want to find ways to exercise the troops. By jumping into conflict (where most Canadians democratically disagree) they must have equipment and the budget to go out and kill people, and put our young men and women in harm's way. As far as I am concerned we have no business being in Afghanistan, in a war with people we have nothing against. If were were there as part of a NATO or UN peace-keeping effort that would be one thing, but the Armed Forces are there to kill for land and resources. Russia couldn't do it. The US couldn't do it. Perhaps we are just there because it appease those who think that killing is the answer to the world's problems?

[White Doors]

Nevertheless, there was a vote taken and the Bill passed. Now the government is obligated to follow the requirement.

Military spending is relative. The Conservatives are hawkish and want to find ways to exercise the troops. By jumping into conflict (where most Canadians democratically disagree) they must have equipment and the budget to go out and kill people, and put our young men and women in harm's way. As far as I am concerned we have no business being in Afghanistan, in a war with people we have nothing against. If were were there as part of a NATO or UN peace-keeping effort that would be one thing, but the Armed Forces are there to kill for land and resources. Russia couldn't do it. The US couldn't do it. Perhaps we are just there because it appease those who think that killing is the answer to the world's problems?

When one refuses to learn, one will always be ignorant.

It is a UN effort and it is LED by NATO.

unbelieveable ignorance. really.

[charter.rights]

When one refuses to learn, one will always be ignorant.

It is a UN effort and it is LED by NATO.

unbelieveable ignorance. really.

Unbelievable ignorance, really.... It is a war, not a peace-keeping mission! Really.

[M.Dancer]

Unbelievable ignorance, really.... It is a war, not a peace-keeping mission! Really.

What ion earth does that have to do with NATO or the UN? Before a "Peace Keeping" mission can be thought of, there must be a desire for peace. Untill then it's a peace making mission. As The Gen (ret) says...keep the peace or we will kill you...

[Topaz]

Perhaps since the GG is the head of the military maybe she should be the one to decide, taking in the fact, it passed in the House.

[Topaz]

Unbelievable ignorance, really.... It is a war, not a peace-keeping mission! Really.

Gee, I thought it was lead by the US and then followed by NATO when the US left to go to Iraq.

[Army Guy]

Here is another example of wasting time and money on a totally useless bill, that does nothing for this country or our troops. Just sit down for a minute and think what our troops in Afgan might be thinking....Will this bill increase my odds of survival in a war zone, will it benifit my family in any way, will it benifit the military, our country, or those vets of past service...NO it does not....

And yet this whole situation has made it onto the countries radar screen not once but twice...and can you believe it required a bill to be passed....And yet the soldiers are seriously thinking about...what am i going to do if i'm seriously injured and can no longer work, what is my family going to do to make ends meet if i die in combat, who is going to look after my loved ones when i'm gone, it's one thing to have a buddy to promise you to look after them on you death bed...but raiseing one family one a military wage is hard and next to impossiable to look after two....And it's funney that there is no bill being passed on any of those things i've just mentioned...Things that could make a difference in the way our country treats it's soldiers and vets....

So while we are greatful that our nations parliment will fly a flag at half mass in our honor, that perhaps a couple of thousand of people will see, it is not the grand justure that the majority may think it is....

Regardless of what parliment does, The flags at every military base across the country will fly at half mass, that our own will mourn our loss in true military fashion, we will all take a minute out of our busy days to say a pray, we will donate money to the family, we will hold a large military cerimony so we can say our final good byes...and we will add thier names and faces to our walls of honour "lest we forget". These are the things that we hold near and dear as they are part of our tradition....

And while the above does not include the rest of the country, nor allow them to mourn with us, nither does the lowering of our national flag at parliment...We know the majority of Canadians supports us and mourns our every loss, it's made evident every time that Airbus lands in Canada and the body takes that long jouney down the highway of heros, lined by thousands paying thier respects....

You really want to help our soldiers and Vets then next time our government feels the need to pass a bill, lets make it one that will make a difference in our lifes, in our families lifes. one that will say to our soldiers "thanks" and "we do care".

[White Doors]

Unbelievable ignorance, really.... It is a war, not a peace-keeping mission! Really.

And the liberals sent us there. next!

[White Doors]

Gee, I thought it was lead by the US and then followed by NATO when the US left to go to Iraq.

Wrong. again.

The Un sanctioned it before the US ever stepped foot there. Also, the US is still there.

[Topaz]

Here is another example of wasting time and money on a totally useless bill, that does nothing for this country or our troops. Just sit down for a minute and think what our troops in Afgan might be thinking....Will this bill increase my odds of survival in a war zone, will it benifit my family in any way, will it benifit the military, our country, or those vets of past service...NO it does not....

And yet this whole situation has made it onto the countries radar screen not once but twice...and can you believe it required a bill to be passed....And yet the soldiers are seriously thinking about...what am i going to do if i'm seriously injured and can no longer work, what is my family going to do to make ends meet if i die in combat, who is going to look after my loved ones when i'm gone, it's one thing to have a buddy to promise you to look after them on you death bed...but raiseing one family one a military wage is hard and next to impossiable to look after two....And it's funney that there is no bill being passed on any of those things i've just mentioned...Things that could make a difference in the way our country treats it's soldiers and vets....

So while we are greatful that our nations parliment will fly a flag at half mass in our honor, that perhaps a couple of thousand of people will see, it is not the grand justure that the majority may think it is....

Regardless of what parliment does, The flags at every military base across the country will fly at half mass, that our own will mourn our loss in true military fashion, we will all take a minute out of our busy days to say a pray, we will donate money to the family, we will hold a large military cerimony so we can say our final good byes...and we will add thier names and faces to our walls of honour "lest we forget". These are the things that we hold near and dear as they are part of our tradition....

And while the above does not include the rest of the country, nor allow them to mourn with us, nither does the lowering of our national flag at parliment...We know the majority of Canadians supports us and mourns our every loss, it's made evident every time that Airbus lands in Canada and the body takes that long jouney down the highway of heros, lined by thousands paying thier respects....

You really want to help our soldiers and Vets then next time our government feels the need to pass a bill, lets make it one that will make a difference in our lifes, in our families lifes. one that will say to our soldiers "thanks" and "we do care".

I think most Canadians would agree with most of what you said and the Cons keep saying that they are looking after the vets when they return so I can't see any reason for any of the vets to complain by what the government keeps saying how well they are looking after the military. BUT, alot of Canadians don't think we should be there and that Harper never really thought the pros and the cons through and so Canadians want this for their soldiers, to know we respect and mourn another loss of life. If the the Feds refuse to do it, perhaps the provinces will take on the duty and I'm sure private citizens who have flag poles will also lower the flag as a personal rememberance of THAT soldier.

[Army Guy]

Military spending is relative. The Conservatives are hawkish and want to find ways to exercise the troops. By jumping into conflict (where most Canadians democratically disagree)

So a boast of .2 % of GDP is hawkish, replacing equipment that desparatly need to be replaced or forcing the country to do without that capability, sounds very hawkish...unless you are the one who's live will be effected by that equipment....like those during the annual winnipeg floods, or the ice storms, or the hundrds that are pull to safety by SAR (search and rescue)...or those international people that are effected by our aid assistance... not to mention the hundrds of soldiers lives that this equipment will save....

If were were there as part of a NATO or UN peace-keeping effort that would be one thing, but the Armed Forces are there to kill for land and resources. Russia couldn't do it. The US couldn't do it. Perhaps we are just there because it appease those who think that killing is the answer to the world's problems?

This is the statement that proves that you really know nothing of the situation , or what our country is doing there...which really is to bad....As a Canadian you should know what our countries military forces are doing on our behalf....Thanks for coming out, thanks for your support...