GST Ads

[Michael Bluth]

The Liberals did more for the poor by raising the income tax deduction than the Tories have ever done with the GST cut. The GST cut is pure politics. It isn't a rational tax cut.

Conveniently omitting the CPC cut to the basic personal exemption, the CPC cut to the lowest tax bracket and the transit pass credit.

[M.Dancer]

B oth parties ( liberals with martin a finance and the current tories) have cut MY taxes and I thank them. I;m almost at the point where I am not so motivated to pursue my cultural right as a scot to cheat the excise man.....almost anyway...almost

[msj]

Conveniently omitting the CPC cut to the basic personal exemption, the CPC cut to the lowest tax bracket and the transit pass credit.

Yes the CPC did cut the basic exemption from $9,039 to $8,639 effective July 1, 2006. You do realize that that actually is an income tax increase for anyone making more than $8,839 (the average between $9,039 and $8,639)?

Or, how about how they claimed to have cut the tax rate on the lowest tax bracket from 16 to 15.5% when, in fact, they raised it from 15% to 15.5% effective July 1, 2006?

Oh sure, they finally came through and lowered it back to 15% retroactive for 2007. Too little too late, afaic.

Edited January 5, 2008 by msj

[Michael Bluth]

Yes the CPC did cut the basic exemption from $9,039 to $8,639 effective July 1, 2006. You do realize that that actually is an income tax increase for anyone making more than $8,839 (the average between $9,039 and $8,639)?

Support the cut in the bpe assertion please. I am more than confident it would have appeared on these boards at one point.

Oh sure, they finally came through and lowered it back to 15% retroactive for 2007. Too little too late, afaic.

Too evident of your bias.

Why is it 'too late'?

Why no mention of the GST cut? The transit pass credit? etc. etc. etc.

[Oleg Bach]

Support the cut in the bpe assertion please. I am more than confident it would have appeared on these boards at one point.

Too evident of your bias.

Why is it 'too late'?

Why no mention of the GST cut? The transit pass credit? etc. etc. etc.

I remember the first morning they installed the GST. I walked into a coffee place and put down my 75 cents - the cashier said - "sorry Sir that will be one dollar please" or there abouts - first thing I thought was - wtf...it's only coffee - but now with inflation and the GST - it's 2 bucks for a good coffee and its 12 bucks for a pack of chicken wings and guts (gibblets) that they use to toss out as garbage scraps and unusable - funny - when chicken wings and guts were free - still I can get five huge pork chops from the butcher in old China town - for under 4 dollars - go to the big box store and I get lower quality pork and half the amount for 14 dollars - at least these old Asians take care of each other - we on the other hand consume our fellows...YAH four bucks and I can feed five people--------GST is so damn anglo.

[Who's Doing What?]

What really matters is how the average consumer/voter views the GST cut. The GST cut affects all consumers equally and is very visible.

In general, Canadians don't pay attention to what pundits and analysts think. Fairness is bringing a tax cut that affects all Canadians equally. Coupled with a reduction in personal income taxes that benefits all Canadians makes sense to the average taxpayer. Why would Liberals be opposed to tax reductions?

That is the point. The GST cut doesn't affect everyone equally. I know on the surface it might seem like it because it is an across-the-board cut. But take a quick look and you will see this cut affects the rich far more than it affects the middle to low income families.

Buying one $400,000 Rolls Royce would save the buyer $4,000.

Buying $500 dollars worth of clothes for your kid over the course of a year saves you a whopping $5.

So tell me again who benifits from this tax?

Easiest and best way to give relief is a tax cut to the lower income bracket.

***

Angus.

As for saving $270 on a $4500 computer, try again. The savings were $45 with a one cent cut, and a whole $90 if you also consider the first one cent cut.

Don't know where you got $270 dollars from?

***

Edited January 5, 2008 by Who's Doing What?

[Visionseeker]

Support the cut in the bpe assertion please. I am more than confident it would have appeared on these boards at one point.

Too evident of your bias.

Uh, maybe I can help here...

"The basic personal amount will be reduced by $400 to $8,639 on July 1, 2006 at the same time as the GST rate is reduced."

source: Budget Plan, Annex 3 (Budget 2006)

Further, they added .25% to the lowest income tax rate in 2006 and then another .25% to the 2007 rate (raising it from 15% to 15.5% in one and a half years). In other words, income tax grew by a combined rate of 2.47% over 18 months.

While the bpe was annually rated (meaning only a $200 increase would appear on 2006 tax forms), it still pulled an additional $30.50 from almost every tax payer.

For those in the lowest rate, say someone earning $30,000, the combined impact for 2006 alone was a $105.50 tax increase. That means that they saw NO savings on the first $10,550 in GST eligible spending as these were consumed by the income tax increases. When you then consider what's left after taxes (not including propety tax), our $30,000 earning victim has roughly $11,000 for all essentials and any remaining descretionary spending that would spare them the 1% GST.

In the end though, it has to be noted that that 1% savings has quickly been absorbed by the market place. Consumers save nothing. Basic economics dictates what price an item will sell at and the equilibrium of supply and demand is constant. If the government chooses to abandon part of its stake by reducing the GST, someone else in the supply chain will inevitably absorb the vacancy and the price paid will largely stay the same.

[Oleg Bach]

Uh, maybe I can help here...

"The basic personal amount will be reduced by $400 to $8,639 on July 1, 2006 at the same time as the GST rate is reduced."

source: Budget Plan, Annex 3 (Budget 2006)

Further, they added .25% to the lowest income tax rate in 2006 and then another .25% to the 2007 rate (raising it from 15% to 15.5% in one and a half years). In other words, income tax grew by a combined rate of 2.47% over 18 months.

While the bpe was annually rated (meaning only a $200 increase would appear on 2006 tax forms), it still pulled an additional $30.50 from almost every tax payer.

For those in the lowest rate, say someone earning $30,000, the combined impact for 2006 alone was a $105.50 tax increase. That means that they saw NO savings on the first $10,550 in GST eligible spending as these were consumed by the income tax increases. When you then consider what's left after taxes (not including propety tax), our $30,000 earning victim has roughly $11,000 for all essentials and any remaining descretionary spending that would spare them the 1% GST.

In the end though, it has to be noted that that 1% savings has quickly been absorbed by the market place. Consumers save nothing. Basic economics dictates what price an item will sell at and the equilibrium of supply and demand is constant. If the government chooses to abandon part of its stake by reducing the GST, someone else in the supply chain will inevitably absorb the vacancy and the price paid will largely stay the same.

All of these taxes including income tax only supplement large companies that are poorly run. Most surplus monies that sit waiting NOT to be use for the public good - are held back and used only for welfare payments to corporations....so when you are taxed all you are really doing is supporting the talentless rich...the whole thing stinks. We are the most taxed nation on earth and the most corrupt - if we were NOT corrupt - taxes would be used for good purpose not for bad. For instance when a company run by useless dweebs falters - we send them a few million bucks in welfare. Another instance of waste is for instance - My wife is called by the doctor to come in to pick up a form for blood work - they book an appointment and charge the public a hundred bucks - When they could just mail out the requistion from for a buck..now this type of medical scaming is also a type of corrupt tax - imagine that during a month - maybe a thousand doctors steal a thousand dollars - that all adds up to millions....and we allow this?

[jdobbin]

In the end though, it has to be noted that that 1% savings has quickly been absorbed by the market place. Consumers save nothing. Basic economics dictates what price an item will sell at and the equilibrium of supply and demand is constant. If the government chooses to abandon part of its stake by reducing the GST, someone else in the supply chain will inevitably absorb the vacancy and the price paid will largely stay the same.

Well put. An income tax decrease would have a much fairer and larger impact on the majority of taxpayers. Several in the media like Andrew Cohen and Jeffrey Simpson have said that that Tory insiders have said the move was more about "politics" than about a smart tax cut. Greg Weston's articles have detailed how much more Canadians would have saved with an income tax cut than a GST cut.

[Argus]

The way these ads are designed is a total promotion for the government. Congratulations. You are emulating what you criticized, Tories.

When the Tories start taking money under the table as your party did you will have a point. I don't see that happening thought. Almost all the most corrupt politicians join the Liberal Party - where they'll feel at home.

[Argus]

I'd rather have year in, year out savings on income tax. I don't buy a house every year nor a car nor major appliances. I do pay income tax each year and could stand to pay less on a consistent yearly basis. My savings shouldn't come as a result of buying big ticket items on in inconsistent basis.

This is idiocy. You buy stuff every year. Perhaps not big ticket items, especially when your party isn't in power, but everything you buy has GST attached. If you add up all the GST you pay in a year you'll be saving quite a bit with the cuts.

[Argus]

Anyone who has a GST number will have received a notice from the government by mail in mid to late December.

My business partner and I had dozens of these notices on our desks for all the clients that have us as their c/o addresses.

We started to open them, saw what they were about (a notice of the GST reduction and other changes effective for 2008), collectively rolled our eyes, and proceeded to recycle every notice.

Why? Because we have been telling our clients for 2 months now about the appropriate changes through conversation, email, newsletters etc...

I have gotten no notice from any company, corporation or organization I pay money to that the GST will be cut. None. And I deal with a lot of companies through my private life, my private business, and as a government employee. Not one has sent us a thing. I have a feeling some of them will try to avoid dropping the GST. Certainly there will be a number of companies which try to pocket the difference. The advertising will make it harder to do that.

[gc1765]

...but everything you buy has GST attached...

Not everything. I (and probably many others who don't make very much money) spend almost all of my money on rent, food, tuition - and the rest goes to savings. I spend very little on things that actually charge GST. So I, and others with a low income, will not benefit very much from a GST cut. Increasing the GST rebate, making more items exempt from GST, or an income tax cut would have been much better.

[jdobbin]

This is idiocy. You buy stuff every year. Perhaps not big ticket items, especially when your party isn't in power, but everything you buy has GST attached. If you add up all the GST you pay in a year you'll be saving quite a bit with the cuts.

But not as much as income tax cuts which has been pointed out by several organizations including the CTF.

[jdobbin]

When the Tories start taking money under the table as your party did you will have a point. I don't see that happening thought. Almost all the most corrupt politicians join the Liberal Party - where they'll feel at home.

The hypocrisy of this political ad is fairly obvious. The Tories are using government coffers to pat themselves on the back. They didn't have a partisan TV ad campaign last time. I've seen no evidence that the GST cut didn't proceed normally then.

Edited January 5, 2008 by jdobbin

[gc1765]

I wonder if the Conservative supporters here have any lines other than "well, it's not as bad as previous Liberal governments, so it's all good"?

[leonardcohen]

I wonder if the Conservative supporters here have any lines other than "well, it's not as bad as previous Liberal governments, so it's all good"?

Hey, It works for me!

[BornAlbertan]

You know, I am far from rich. But why should a person be taxed more because they earn more? And why should they be chastised for having the money to save money.

I have never gotten any breaks in life. I have worked since I was 11 years old...started with a paper route of 27 papers and by the time I moved on to something else I was up over 130 daily papers. No holidays. Every morning papers were all delivered by 6am. Only 2 complaints ever...from the same guy because his paper wasn't there fast enough (which for him was 5:30 because of his work schedule). At 13 years old I was making over $400/month with tips...and Christmas bonuses...there was a perk.

Well...it doesn't take much to figure out that if I was doing that at 13 (making over $5000 a year in the 80's) delivering papers why is there are people out there who can't do that today? Because we live in a welfare state with people who do not condone working for a living there are of course people who feel they are entitled to be paid...and lazy. There are plenty of opportunities for the disabled...and if they seek them I have no problem with the government using my tax dollars to help them out. Then there are the "poor"...quite often nomadic junkies. Beyond help. I mean..."Tent City"...hello?! Don't want to lump them all in the same....but if it walks like a duck...

Anyhow...I know someone who had their school 100% for by the AB gov't because they had a handicap. You know what that handicap was? A leg was 1" longer than the other. Wow. He got his grant money and then dropped out. Where is he now? I don't give a sh*t. Point is, I just finished paying for my student loans. Now, I did get some forgiven by working hard and getting good grades. But what did he have to do? Nothing. It was given to him...woe is me to be "poor".

Pardon me if I have just a little lack of sympathy for those who continually get more without having to do anything for it and then demand more.

My wife and I work hard to provide for our life TODAY and our life TOMORROW when we won't be able to work. I just don't exactly appreciate people cheapening ambition and drive by getting the same for nothing.

[msj]

I have gotten no notice from any company, corporation or organization I pay money to that the GST will be cut. None. And I deal with a lot of companies through my private life, my private business, and as a government employee. Not one has sent us a thing. I have a feeling some of them will try to avoid dropping the GST. Certainly there will be a number of companies which try to pocket the difference. The advertising will make it harder to do that.

Perhaps they missed you.

As I have already stated: customers will quickly let businesses know should businesses continue to charge too much GST. It is an automatically self-correcting system that needs very little hand holding from the state.

[sharkman]

You may have missed it, but one point has come up regarding businesses and people whose GST is hidden in their fees. Some in this situation would charge the same and pocket the difference. To suggest it is a self correcting system ignores human nature.

[msj]

Support the cut in the bpe assertion please. I am more than confident it would have appeared on these boards at one point.

Too evident of your bias.

Why is it 'too late'?

Why no mention of the GST cut? The transit pass credit? etc. etc. etc.

Visionseeker has already provided a link regarding the bpe.

The transit pass is a gimmick. It benefits few people and they got a whopping 15.25% (15% for the first half of the year and 15.5% for the last half of the year) in 2006 and will get tax savings of 15% in 2007 (due to the retroactive tax cut from 15.5% to 15% in the October update).

For most people we're talking $20.

Now, why is it too late?

Simple, really.

The Cons have reduced the GST and have left little room for any income tax cuts. Those income tax cuts would encourage people to work, save, and invest.

Instead, the Cons would prefer people to spend in order to save tax.

It's like the woman who comes home to tell her husband how much money she saved on clothes because the store was having a 30% off sale.

(For the record, a 2% point cut in the GST rate is a ~28.6% cut)

[msj]

You may have missed it, but one point has come up regarding businesses and people whose GST is hidden in their fees. Some in this situation would charge the same and pocket the difference. To suggest it is a self correcting system ignores human nature.

Sure this will happen. No reason to think that business people are any more or less intelligent than the average joe.

In many cases this will happen between GST registrants and, therefore, the cut makes no difference since the one who pays gets the GST back (or reduces the amount that will be remitted to the government).

In other cases it will happen and that is the buyer's problem.

I bought a Globe and Mail today and it cost the same as last Saturday. I know the G&M is getting an extra $0.02 per Saturday newspaper.

Others may or may not know. If it bugs people then don't buy the paper.

Otherwise, it is just a further demonstration of the stupidity of cutting GST rather than cutting income taxes (since, even if an employer uses an old tax table, the employee would still see the income tax cut when he/she filed his/her tax return).

[gc1765]

I think Argus said it best:

Bunch of stupid people completely ignore the upcoming deadline, pay no attention whatsoever to the news or warnings...

Oh boooooo hoooooo! ...Serves you right for being a sub literate cretin. I feel zero sympathy for those people...when they've known about this for over a year.

Funny how that logic doesn't apply in this situation...

[M.Dancer]

I bought a Globe and Mail today and it cost the same as last Saturday. I know the G&M is getting an extra $0.02 per Saturday newspaper.

Others may or may not know. If it bugs people then don't buy the paper.

More likely the retailer is getting the extra. Watch your bill at pubs....they are notorious for skimming an extra 1% when they can.

[msj]

More likely the retailer is getting the extra. Watch your bill at pubs....they are notorious for skimming an extra 1% when they can.

Given that the G&M prints the price on the newspaper I would think that at best they split the difference with the retailers.

I have a client who owns a corner store so maybe I'll ask him next week about this.