Gas Prices

[Topaz]

Gas prices are on the way again and the reason is the killing of Bhutto. I hope no leader breaks a fingernail!!! I don't think consumers believe that one! Question..... why isn't Canada using our own product of oil. Is it lack of refineries to change oil to gas?? I would think prices would go down if we did. Anyone??

[margrace]

Gas prices are on the way again and the reason is the killing of Bhutto. I hope no leader breaks a fingernail!!! I don't think consumers believe that one! Question..... why isn't Canada using our own product of oil. Is it lack of refineries to change oil to gas?? I would think prices would go down if we did. Anyone??

I heard on the news that an assessment of free trade for Canada shows that the average person in Canada suffered from it, lose of jobs and small companies, but the international companies made money on it, one of these groups being the Oil Cartels wouldn't you think???

[Shakeyhands]

As far as I know, prices are dictated by the cost of crude and set by the Foreign Companies that own said refineries and stations. Canada used to have a company that did this... remember them?

[Borg]

Unlike a certain South American country, there is no move afoot to have a "Canadea's Own" gas price or policy.

If we did, we would likely have an incredible growth in the economy. Especially if we truly did have a system that demanded Canuck ownership in new business. Rather than selling off we could actually be owning the country.

Borg

[M.Dancer]

Oil prices are noty set by "certain" companies or by secret comittee. Prices are a sum of supply and demand. Oil tends to go up in winter because demand goes up. OPEC often limits production to keep the price high but it is still demand that is the key. Canada is a net exporter of oil selling mainly to the US. Even so, our prices are set on the open market as they should be.

In my opinion high oil prices are a good thing.

[margrace]

Since you like to bully and call others names I think you should declare exactly who you are and who you work for?

[M.Dancer]

Since you like to bully and call others names I think you should declare exactly who you are and who you work for?

Are you about to go on one of your ridiculous tangents where everyone who is saner and more intelligent than you is a gov't poster?

[Wild Bill]

As far as I know, prices are dictated by the cost of crude and set by the Foreign Companies that own said refineries and stations. Canada used to have a company that did this... remember them?

If you're talking about PetroCanada, I remember how right from the start they were always the first to up their prices and the last to bring them down!

As the Who sang it: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!"

[geoffrey]

In my opinion high oil prices are a good thing.

I find it funny how the hardcore left winger types here want low oil and energy prices but still want to reduce GHG emissions.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Global warming is one thing economic policies driving market prices are another.

[M.Dancer]

I find it funny how the hardcore left winger types here want low oil and energy prices but still want to reduce GHG emissions.

Exactly and exactly why high prices are a good thing. Our price in Canada, even with the taxes and levees are still lower than most of the western world.

I find it amusing to hear people complain about the high price of our low cost fuel. Perhaps they should pay a visit to Europe and see what a litre costs there. At the same time look at the kinds of cars and their fuel efficeincy that high prices have led them to...

....common sense is a lot harder than being a toaster listening tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.....

[Leafless]

Canada is a net exporter of oil selling mainly to the US. Even so, our prices are set on the open market as they should be.

Canada is a net exporter of pre-refined subsidized crude and still not he desired grade of crude out of the ground needed for the manufacturing of gasoline.

[Wilber]

Oil prices are noty set by "certain" companies or by secret comittee. Prices are a sum of supply and demand. Oil tends to go up in winter because demand goes up. OPEC often limits production to keep the price high but it is still demand that is the key. Canada is a net exporter of oil selling mainly to the US. Even so, our prices are set on the open market as they should be.

In my opinion high oil prices are a good thing.

One thing I have noticed in these parts the past few years. In winter when heating oil demand is up and gasoline demand is down, diesel prices are above the price of regular gas. When summer comes and the opposite is true, diesel drops below the price of regular.

High oil prices are inflationary which is not a good thing but it is probably the only effective way of reducing consumption.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... why isn't Canada using our own product of oil. Is it lack of refineries to change oil to gas?? I would think prices would go down if we did. Anyone??

Go back and study the history of petroleum production and refining in Canada. It wouldn't exist without foreign investment and a large market to the south. Canada lacks not only sufficient refining capacity for distillates, but also lacks sufficient west to east distribution. Eastern Canada actually imports about 950,000 bpd, along with finished product from the United States.

Crude oil prices are not set by anybody.....they are set by everybody.

[Higgly]

Oil prices are noty set by "certain" companies or by secret comittee. Prices are a sum of supply and demand. Oil tends to go up in winter because demand goes up. OPEC often limits production to keep the price high but it is still demand that is the key. Canada is a net exporter of oil selling mainly to the US. Even so, our prices are set on the open market as they should be.

In my opinion high oil prices are a good thing.

Yep. My Gawd. I am am agreeing with somebody from Forest Hill

[Sully]

why isn't Canada using our own product of oil. Is it lack of refineries to change oil to gas?? I would think prices would go down if we did. Anyone??

Well truthfully I believe Canada or North America in general would prefer to use the oil of the Middle East and other areas before we use our own. I believe its a smart move politically and ecomonically for a few future reasons.

1.) The current oil companies are already making huge profits on foreign oil and are not even close to producing the maximum domestic output of oil. With China and India coming online, I would make the assumption that the Middle East has maybe another 50-70 years of dominance in the oil industry before the wells dry up on this finite natural resource. This will really benefit the domestic oil boys at that time as the world supply of oil will drop and their hands will be forced to invest domestically. Now the companies can live longer and justify much higher prices for producing the oil for their domestic markets and also these companies will be able to export for outrageous prices as well. These companies will be "JUSTIFIED" to charge higher prices since there is less of a world supply and also these companies will now need to build domestic refineries and do the research for new locations using North American talent. Just remember that North Americans earn much much much more than their Middle East counterparts. For the North American consumer at that time it will be win and lose, it will be a win since they have access to oil and a loss because they will pay alot for it.

2.) As bad as this may sound, a Middle East without oil is a best case scenario for the Western world as we can now build a wall around it (not something I promote) and let them do whatever they want to each other. Once the wall is built all we need to do is keep a watchful eye on any nuclear activity. Isolating the Middle East will save alot of money for the West on security (military especially) and intelligence gathering in that area. The only "gem" in the Middle East will still be Israel, since there is a powerful Jewish lobby in the US. Unless these countries diversify and expand into other long lasting industries, they will starve even more once the oil money dries up. Middle East(w/o oil) = Africa, no one really cares.

I find it amusing to hear people complain about the high price of our low cost fuel. Perhaps they should pay a visit to Europe and see what a litre costs there. At the same time look at the kinds of cars and their fuel efficeincy that high prices have led them to...

I find it amusing that people would like to justify Canadian prices or price increases based on some other location (i.e. Europe), who cares what Europeans pay for gas. I just care for what I, a Canadian, pays for gas. This kind of thinking gives governments the "justification" to hit us with more increases in taxes and fees. In Vancouver they increase parking fees downtown because Vancouver is still cheaper then parking in Denver, or Zurich or Hong Kong. So M. Dancer I challenge you to write a letter to the government and allow them to charge you the extra gas tax that will help prevent you from unecessary driving. I am sure the government will send you a letter back assuring that all these additional taxes will go directly to green initiatives.

Oh BTW M. Dancer can you confirm with me that since Europeans are paying substantially more for gas, are those 600 million+ Europeans driving alot less as a result?

[Higgly]

Oh BTW M. Dancer can you confirm with me that since Europeans are paying substantially more for gas, are those 600 million+ Europeans driving alot less as a result?

Talk to a European about what a car means and look at the size of the average European car compared to ours. Not too many SUVs over there. Here everybody thinks that they need a car. Over there, mostly people who really need a car think they need a car. It's no accident that they have a magnificent public transport system. Too bad we don't.

[Wilber]

Talk to a European about what a car means and look at the size of the average European car compared to ours. Not too many SUVs over there. Here everybody thinks that they need a car. Over there, mostly people who really need a car think they need a car. It's no accident that they have a magnificent public transport system. Too bad we don't.

It depends where you live in Canada. Unless it is one of the major cities with a good transit system, most people do need a car. In Europe, you can live most anywhere and get by without one. Canada doesn't have the population density to make a European transportation system possible. We are geographically the second largest country in the world yet our total population finally just exceeded that of the city of Tokyo. Most Canadians are going to need cars for a long time yet, the question is what kind.

Higher fuel taxes are not justified unless they go toward providing alternatives to car use. For the most part fuel taxes are just another cash cow that goes into general revenue with a relatively small amount going to transportation of any kind.

[margrace]

Its costing up to 60 million dollars for 6 miles of highway for the new four laning in Ontario. I think we could build a good railroad system for that.

[Wilber]

Its costing up to 60 million dollars for 6 miles of highway for the new four laning in Ontario. I think we could build a good railroad system for that.

Wouldn't count on it. You probably couldn't even buy the rolling stock for that. From a government standpoint, that's the good thing about highways, once they are built the users buy and maintain the vehicles. It would also depend on where it is and how many will be using it in order to avoid huge subsidies to keep it operating. There are a lot of places in Canada that could use decent rail service but a heck of a lot more where it will never be practical. Besides, who is going to build a six mile long railway?

[M.Dancer]

Oh BTW M. Dancer can you confirm with me that since Europeans are paying substantially more for gas, are those 600 million+ Europeans driving alot less as a result?

I can confirm that they pay more. It is around $2.00 per litre. You seem to tacitly agree with that. I could also confirm thy have less cars per capita than north americans, ( 764 vehicles per 1000 USA vs less than 500 per 1000) travel farther by rail, use more urban transpotation and generally drive smaller cars......

None of this can be said to absolutely prove because of high fuel prices, Europeans are more economical with their fuel....but then again.....

Edited January 2, 2008 by M.Dancer

[M.Dancer]

Wouldn't count on it. You probably couldn't even buy the rolling stock for that. From a government standpoint, that's the good thing about highways, once they are built the users buy and maintain the vehicles. It would also depend on where it is and how many will be using it in order to avoid huge subsidies to keep it operating. There are a lot of places in Canada that could use decent rail service but a heck of a lot more where it will never be practical. Besides, who is going to build a six mile long railway?

A new railroad would be closer to 60 billion. It would be a good north south investment along the east coast in the US, not so much in Canada.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Track runs about 2 million a mile for freight. Passenger ONLY high speed rail is another matter entirely. Right of way is an added expense that must be taken into consideration. A good high speed rail link will run about 69 million a mile for double track turn key operation, according to the latest development in China.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Track runs about 2 million a mile for freight. Passenger ONLY high speed rail is another matter entirely. Right of way is an added expense that must be taken into consideration. A good high speed rail link will run about 69 million a mile for double track turn key operation, according to the latest development in China.

http://inte099018.halls.colostate.edu/~vig...nsit/maglev.htm

[Sully]

I can confirm that they pay more. It is around $2.00 per litre. You seem to tacitly agree with that. I could also confirm thy have less cars per capita than north americans, ( 764 vehicles per 1000 USA vs less than 500 per 1000) travel farther by rail, use more urban transpotation and generally drive smaller cars......

None of this can be said to absolutely prove because of high fuel prices Europeans are more economical with their fuel....but then again.....

I absolutely agree Europeans pay more for gas than Canadians and then again I hope thats always the case. But like almost all fuel prices worldwide, a large portion of the price is due to government taxes. Taxes that are collected to be used in whatever way the government would like and I for one want as little money going to the government as possible. The only real way for a country to be green is for the population to believe in acting in a responsible way. Everyone has to do their part, that means drive alot less, consume a lot less etc.....and not have the government mandate a bunch of phony promises to get elected.

As for your car per capita breakdown, what is your source of that information and please have a quote from some unbiased source (ie something other than a pro-green site).

As for Euros travelling more by rail, I can believe it because they have the population density to support a rail system (more frequent stops = more frequent travellers). Europeans could very well take more urban transport and buy smaller cars due to the fact that they have much older cities which are more tightly packed and that leads to smaller cars and more city transport due to convenience and not out of a green conscience.