Fortier Blasts Trudeau

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071219/...fortier_trudeau

Federal Public Works Minister Michael Fortier has blasted Justin Trudeau for saying that recognizing Quebecers as a nation is a divisive move.

Trudeau, the Liberal candidate in Papineau riding, told a Montreal weekly that recognizing Quebec as a distinct society in the Constitution would just "create divisions" and separate groups from other groups "Who are Quebecers to be recognized as a nation?" Trudeau told Nouvelles Parc-Extension News last week.

Fortier was livid on Wednesday.

"Mr. Trudeau compares Quebecers to a group," Fortier said at a tribute to Richard Pound, the outgoing head of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Perhaps Fortier can commission one of the two polls a day that he authorizes to find out if there is controversy.

[August1991]

Here are the originating quotes from a local newspaper in Montreal:

"The whole idea of special status for Quebec, or recognizing that Quebec is a distinct society within the constitution, or recognizing that it's a nation of Québécois, the problem I have with that is it creates divisions, it separates groups within groups," he said in an interview with NPEN.

...

Recalling his father's unitary vision of Canada, Justin Trudeau criticized Ignatieff as lacking judgement, although the reaction of many Liberal insiders was to summarily dismiss him. When the vote took place in the Commons, it passed by a margin of 266 to 16. However, the Conservative members were under orders from Harper not to oppose it, and 15 of the 16 votes against were from the Liberals.

...

Today, Trudeau still insists that the motion brought forth by the Conservatives was vague and had too little definition. "Who are the Québécois to be recognized as a nation?" he says. "Is it everyone living within the province of Quebec? Is it the Québécois de souche? For sure (Bloc Québécois leader) Gilles Duceppe has a different definition of that than Mr. Harper does and (Liberal leader) Mr. Dion does. And my concern with all of those things is that we're not going to resolve anything by putting something unspecific forward. We're only going to exacerbate differences in a time when people don't want it."

Trudeau says most of the Liberals supported the Conservative resolution "with the hopes of just putting it to rest to a certain extent … I'm glad it's past us, I'm glad it's done. It's taken care of and now the government of Canada can spend its time worrying about bigger things that are more pressing to Canadians than dealing with that. I don't think it's going to continue to be a big issue. I think there are a lot of other big issues on the horizon that are increasing."

Nouvelles Parc Extension News

Quebec is a group? At least his father had the sense to recognize Quebec as a province and to be an ardent defender of a federal state. Even Dion voted in favour of Harper's motion. For good reason, Canada is not a unitary state.

My problem with Justin is that he apparently inherited his mother's brains and his father's looks.

Edited December 20, 2007 by August1991

[jdobbin]

Quebec is a group? At least his father had the sense to recognize Quebec as a province and to be an ardent defender of a federal state. Even Dion voted in favour of Harper's motion. For good reason, Canada is not a unitary state.

My problem with Justin is that he apparently inherited his mother's brains and his father's looks.

My understanding of what was said was that "nation" seems to be interpreted as meaning as a group of Quebcers within Quebec taking on that status to the exclusion of others. Is that wrong?

[M.Dancer]

My understanding of what was said was that "nation" seems to be interpreted as meaning as a group of Quebcers within Quebec taking on that status to the exclusion of others. Is that wrong?

If by nation you mean les pur laine.....fellows with names like Lavergne, Tremblay and Degenais then yes, it is wrong. Must we go back to the history class to see that Quebec was built by papineaus as well as the auld alliance?

And modern quebed will have Camerons and Corbeault as well as Saads....what the Nation implies in Quebec would be akin to ontario being described as good place for British Orangemen....

[jdobbin]

If by nation you mean les pur laine.....fellows with names like Lavergne, Tremblay and Degenais then yes, it is wrong. Must we go back to the history class to see that Quebec was built by papineaus as well as the auld alliance?

And modern quebed will have Camerons and Corbeault as well as Saads....what the Nation implies in Quebec would be akin to ontario being described as good place for British Orangemen....

This is what I thought Trudeau meant when he talked about the nation debate. He seemed to reference the debate on reasonable accommodation and what some Quebecers believed was meant by "nation."

[August1991]

If by nation you mean les pur laine.....fellows with names like Lavergne, Tremblay and Degenais then yes, it is wrong. Must we go back to the history class to see that Quebec was built by papineaus as well as the auld alliance?

And modern quebed will have Camerons and Corbeault as well as Saads....what the Nation implies in Quebec would be akin to ontario being described as good place for British Orangemen....

British Orangemen? Dancer, is Finland or Iceland a bad place because they have common family names?

(BTW, the last time I drove through Brockville, Ontario, they were celebrating "Loyalist Days".)

Find me a society in the world where people of the majority language contribute to the financing of an entire network of minority language public schools, colleges and three minority language universities. People in Quebec have no lesson to take from anyone in tolerance of minorities.

As I have said before, Americans should be grateful to share a continent with Canadians and Canadians should be grateful to share a country with Quebecers. The situation could be far worse.

Edited December 20, 2007 by August1991

[Topaz]

I don't think this topic will go away until some separatist get what they want. I can't believe the government of Canada, lets the The Bloc set in government when they don't recognize Quebec being a province within Canada. Since Harper has said Quebec is a nation within Canada, then the First Nation people are also a nation within Canada and should have a seat within Parliament and would be more loyal to the country than the Bloc. I believe that all the provinces are equal and the official languages being English and French. and nothing more.

[AngusThermopyle]

Canadians should be grateful to share a country with Quebecers. The situation could be far worse.

I disagree. Why should we gratefull towards a province that constantly causes trouble, laps up government projects and contracts in a disproportionate amount and syphons off more in transfer payments than anyone else? Then as a whole views the rest of Canada with disdain and contempt.

I think we'd be better off if we told them to take a hike (after paying up what they would owe of course). That way we wouldn't be subject to constant petty petulant demands and complaints.

[M.Dancer]

Find me a society in the world where people of the majority language contribute to the financing of an entire network of minority language public schools, colleges and three minority language universities. People in Quebec have no lesson to take from anyone in tolerance of minorities.

Ireland. The majority speak english but learn gaelic

Britain, The malority speak English but in wales the childen learn Welsh.

Don't mistake quebec's tollerance for anything othe than it is. The english in Quebec are not jews or gypsies. They were politically and economically powerful. Quebec didn't give English their status. The English gave themselves their own rights. Lionel Groulx had no power of us.

[Michael Hardner]

In the Philipines, apparently, education is in English if the lady I interviewed last year is to be believed.

[Leafless]

Find me a society in the world where people of the majority language contribute to the financing of an entire network of minority language public schools, colleges and three minority language universities. People in Quebec have no lesson to take from anyone in tolerance of minorities.

D'ont be silly August, as you very well know Quebec is not a country but a province, like ALL other provinces in Canada and you also know Quebec cannot cut it alone as it requires an abudance of federal resouces to support its obsolete linguistic fantasies and culture.

As I have said before, Americans should be grateful to share a continent with Canadians and Canadians should be grateful to share a country with Quebecers. The situation could be far worse.

I gather this is a threat.

Do you actually believe that the U.S. would sit on its hands, to protect its interest in Canada, in the event of a Quebec uprising against the ROC?

How long to you think Quebecers would last cut off from everything?

[madmax]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071219/...fortier_trudeau

Perhaps Fortier can commission one of the two polls a day that he authorizes to find out if there is controversy.

The Irony of Fortier speaking out regarding anything is amusing to say the least. Hiding in the security of the Senate.

Perhaps he should commission a poll asking if he should step down.

Fortier is one of the 2 mistakes Harper made within days of taking power.

Emerson is the other.

Fortier needs to shut up and hide, or people are going to question what the bagman is doing with our money.

[August1991]

I don't think this topic will go away until some separatist get what they want. I can't believe the government of Canada, lets the The Bloc set in government when they don't recognize Quebec being a province within Canada. Since Harper has said Quebec is a nation within Canada, then the First Nation people are also a nation within Canada and should have a seat within Parliament and would be more loyal to the country than the Bloc. I believe that all the provinces are equal and the official languages being English and French. and nothing more.

Topaz, please understand that Quebec is not one person who is playing a game with ROC.

There are several million Quebecers with a variety of viewpoints. It happens that a vocal minority (perhaps 20-30%) really want an independent country. They want nothing to do with the government in Ottawa and they don't want money from Canadians. They want a sovereign country. These people are very honest and direct and they are not trying to take anything from English-Canada. Unfortunately, these people do not form a majority in Quebec (otherwise Quebec would be long gone).

In addition, there are 20% anglo/allophone and another 10-20% of Quebec (francos) who are diehard federalists. These people want Quebec to stay in Canada as is - the status quo. (Heck, some of these people want Quebec to join Ontario or something.)

That leaves about 40% of the population in the middle. They are all francos, they are Quebecers first but for a variety of reasons, they remain attached to Canada. (If you need a comparison in English Canada, think of Newfoundland.)

Harper's motion made it easier for these people to use a Canadian passport. I have always thought that Canada works best when people are not forced to choose between Canada and their region. Harper's motion achieved that. (if you'll allow me another comparison, family's work best when children are not forced to choose between their father and mother.)

Fortier is one of the 2 mistakes Harper made within days of taking power.

Emerson is the other.

I can't speak intelligently about Emerson but Fortier has been critical for Harper. Montreal is a complicated city and Harper needs guidance to move through its shoals. Fortier has done this.

For example, when Harper's wife shows up in Montreal to glad hand at a charity function, Fortier accompanies her:

MONTREAL, QUEBEC--(Marketwire - Oct. 18, 2007) - Tonight, at La TOHU, the "la Cite des arts du cirque" world-class pediatric research was celebrated at the 25th Annual Ball of the Foundation for Research into Children's Diseases. During this gala evening, attended by the Premier of Quebec, Jean Charest, Mrs. Loreen Harper, wife of the Prime Minister of Canada, Senator Michael Fortier and Montreal Mayor Gerald Tremblay and over 650 guests, the Co-Chairpersons, Monique Leroux, Chief Financial Officer, Movement Desjardins, and Isabelle Hudon, President and CEO, Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal announced that the 25th edition of Annual Ball had raised over $700,000 (twice the amount raised last year) to support research into children's diseases.

Random Recent Example

Why should we gratefull towards a province that constantly causes trouble, laps up government projects and contracts in a disproportionate amount and syphons off more in transfer payments than anyone else? Then as a whole views the rest of Canada with disdain and contempt.

I think we'd be better off if we told them to take a hike (after paying up what they would owe of course). That way we wouldn't be subject to constant petty petulant demands and complaints.

Americans could (indeed they sometimes do) say exactly the same about (English) Canada.

Canadians receive a huge subsidy from Americans in the form of military security. Moreover, English Canadians get all their cultural product at less than cost. If you argue that Quebecers benefit from the federal government (I happen to disagree), English Canadians benefit far more from sharing a continent with Americans. Free-riders (ie. moochers)? English Canada invented the concept and everyone around the world knows it. Just ask a foreigner what they think of (English) Canada and America.

Nevertheless, I will return to my original statement. Americans sould be grateful to have Canadians as housemates on this continent and English Canadians should be grateful to share a country with Quebecers. In both cases, the minority is reasonable and polite. If Canada works, it is in part because French Canadians are civilized. And if America works, it is in part because Canada is a decent neighbour.

It could be far worse. Look at Sri Lanka, Lebanon, Iraq nowadays, Rwanda, South Africa, Ireland in the past. If you look at these cases, you'll realize that it is the behaviour of the minority that often determines whether the society functions or not.

Edited December 22, 2007 by August1991

[jdobbin]

I can't speak intelligently about Emerson but Fortier has been critical for Harper. Montreal is a complicated city and Harper needs guidance to move through its shoals. Fortier has done this.

or example, when Harper's wife shows up in Montreal to glad hand at a charity function, Fortier accompanies her

Fortier has spent too much time hiding in the Senate and being unaccountable to Question Period.

It isn't enough to be the date for the PM's wife when she visits Quebec.