Does John Baird have an education?

[capricorn]

Suzuki has 22 honorary degrees from universities from Canada, US, and Australia. Doctor of Environment science in 2000, Honours in BA in Biology, PhD in zoology. Baird has two, one BA in political science and BS in politics and the environment!!

He could have 300 honorary degrees, who cares. Honorary degrees are mere pieces of paper for which the recipient has done nothing to earn.

An honorary degree[1] or a degree honoris causa (Latin: 'for the sake of the honour') is an academic degree for which a university (or other degree-awarding institution) has waived the usual requirements (such as matriculation, residence, study and the passing of examinations).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_degree#Controversy

Stephane Dion, one-time Liberal Environment Minister, boasts the following academic achievements.

Mr. Dion graduated from Université Laval with a B.A. in 1977 and an M.A. in 1979, both in political science. In 1986 he received his doctorate in sociology from the Institut d'études politiques in Paris.

http://www.stephanedion.parl.gc.ca/biography.asp?lang=en

Looks to me like Mr. Dion's environmental credentials are not much better than Baird's.

I'd provide you the Liberal environment critic's credentials but the Liberals don't seem to know whether it's Mark Holland or David McGuinty.

http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2874/67912

[Canuck E Stan]

Suzuki has 22 honorary degrees from universities from Canada, US, and Australia. Doctor of Environment science in 2000, Honours in BA in Biology, PhD in zoology. Baird has two, one BA in political science and BS in politics and the environment!!

I'll add to Capricorn's statement.

22 Honorary degrees? woh hoh!

even George Stroumboulopoulos has an honorary degree,

and anyone and everyone can get an honorary degree, what's the big deal.

and just because it's science .....some people just can't tell the important difference between a degree in Climatology and Zoology. Not saying he's not knowledgeable about the subject,but he not an academic type expert because he has a "fruitfly science" degree.

[BubberMiley]

Every undergraduate knows that you have to major in something to be an expert in it.

[Borg]

Suzuki has 22 honorary degrees from universities from Canada, US, and Australia. Doctor of Environment science in 2000, Honours in BA in Biology, PhD in zoology. Baird has two, one BA in political science and BS in politics and the environment!!

Heck, all you have to do to get an honourary degree is find a way to get famous and spout the socially responsible lines of the day.

Awarding that type of a degree is sure to bring in more funding to the institution that gives it out. You can be sure they do not do it for the benefit of much more than their wallet.

As far as I am concerned, education may make you technically knowledgeable in a subject - but it certainly doe not make you intelligent.

I figure Suzi is in it for the bucks - otherwise he would not be travelling by jet and living in the lap of luxury. "Good for you folks, but not for me."

So why would it matter if Baird is an educated man?

He certainly is a better man by far than that dead guy from montreal who liked to wear a flower in his lapel and avoided military service during WWII.

Borg

[Visionseeker]

Baird’s academic credentials (or lack thereof) don’t concern me much. What concerns me is that he participated in the worst government Ontario ever saw, along with Flaherty and Clement, and yet the good people of Ontario voted again for these twits.

Baird’s qualifications on climate change derive from his ability to answer to EnCana, Husky, et al.

[Michael Bluth]

Baird’s qualifications on climate change derive from his ability to answer to EnCana, Husky, et al.

Those two companies alone directly employ over 10,000 Canadians plus tens of thousands more in spinoff jobs.

Should the Environment Minister simply ask those companies to cease operations and put all those people out of work?

[Argus]

Suzuki has 22 honorary degrees from universities from Canada, US, and Australia. Doctor of Environment science in 2000, Honours in BA in Biology, PhD in zoology. Baird has two, one BA in political science and BS in politics and the environment!!

An honorary degree is, for the most part, merely a measure of popularity. It has nothing to do with ones intelligence, ability or education. Entertainers have honorary degrees. Suzuki is an entertainer.

[Argus]

Baird’s academic credentials (or lack thereof) don’t concern me much. What concerns me is that he participated in the worst government Ontario ever saw, along with Flaherty and Clement, and yet the good people of Ontario voted again for these twits.

Actually, the worst government ever in Ontario would be a toss-up between the Liberals' David Peterson and the NDP's Bob Rae. Which is why both were thrown out after one term.

Baird’s qualifications on climate change derive from his ability to answer to EnCana, Husky, et al.

I take it you're a believer in David Suzuki's demand that the government stop worrying about the economy?

[Visionseeker]

Those two companies alone directly employ over 10,000 Canadians plus tens of thousands more in spinoff jobs.

Should the Environment Minister simply ask those companies to cease operations and put all those people out of work?

Nice spin.

And I suppose the Health Minister should stay clear of harming business interests in the name of public health. After all, one shouldn't let social responsibility get in the way of making a quick buck.

The Environment Minister is responsible for establishing environmental policies; industry and trade have their own champions in cabinet. But as the environment has no documented shareholders and is barely on the right's radar, it will never draw effective representation in this government.

[Michael Bluth]

The Environment Minister is responsible for establishing environmental policies; industry and trade have their own champions in cabinet. But as the environment has no documented shareholders and is barely on the right's radar, it will never draw effective representation in this government.

If my spin was nice, yours was ... weak.

Who will pay for the benefits for the tens of thousands of Canadians put out of work by attempting to follow the discredited Kyoto?

What exactly is 'on the right's radar'? Try some evidence instead of your beliefs.

Do you have access to cabinet meetings? Do you know who is championing which projects?

[Topaz]

Those two companies alone directly employ over 10,000 Canadians plus tens of thousands more in spinoff jobs.

Should the Environment Minister simply ask those companies to cease operations and put all those people out of work?

Why should this sector being any different than other sectors that have layoffs! The oil and gas industry has to find better ways to do their jobs, with the environment in mind.

[M.Dancer]

Why should this sector being any different than other sectors that have layoffs! The oil and gas industry has to find better ways to do their jobs, with the environment in mind.

No sector should be put out of business on the whim of the gov't or by gov't fiat.....in that regard you are inadvertantly right, they are no different than other sectors that have layoffs.....

[Michael Bluth]

No sector should be put out of business on the whim of the gov't or by gov't fiat.....in that regard you are inadvertantly right, they are no different than other sectors that have layoffs.....

The only way we see massive layoffs in the energy sector is if the Government were to introduce draconian measures to meet whatever the new standards of son of Kyoto are. Whenever that happens.

[Moonlight Graham]

An obstructionist for hire. I watch the political game a lot and I have yet to see him say anything intelligible about climate change.

I'd like to see him interviewed on the technicalities by David Suzuki.

Thats because most Ministers in the Canadian executive don't often have a high amount of expertise in their area of specialty. What does Peter McKay know about National Defense?? Dumb, but thats the way it usually works in our polity. Many Minsters or cabinet members are typically former lawyers or businessmen. Baird has, i'd imagine, a good amount of support staff to educate and inform him on issues of the envirnoment.

[Michael Bluth]

Thats because most Ministers in the Canadian executive don't often have a high amount of expertise in their area of specialty. What does Peter McKay know about National Defense?? Dumb, but thats the way it usually works in our polity.

Wrong example to prove your point.

O'Connor should have been a great Minister of Defence by your yardstick, but....

McKay had more than a year's experience as Minister of Foreign Affairs. He would have been involved with many issues related to Defence almost daily.

The job of Minister is much more about leadership ability at the executive level than knowledge of all the nitty gritty of the department.

[Moonlight Graham]

Wrong example to prove your point.

O'Connor should have been a great Minister of Defence by your yardstick, but....

McKay had more than a year's experience as Minister of Foreign Affairs. He would have been involved with many issues related to Defence almost daily.

Agreed, but that just proves that knowledge/expertise doesn't necessarily result in being a good minister. But its safe to say that if a Minister has good credentials in one's area of concern it would make him/her a better Minister. I'm sure it wouldn't help if you were a Minister of Finance & had a degree in economics &/or past real-world business experience.

But as u said it doesn't work that way in Canada.

[Kitchener]

The answer to the thread question is simple: Baird has a B.A. in Political Science.

The answer to the implicit questions of how this qualifies him to make scientific judgments regarding global warming, or macro-economic judgments about the effects of anti-pollution policies, is less simple, but hardly difficult: It doesn't.

But then, it is relatively rare for government ministers to have expertise in their portfolio. What they are supposed to have, rather, are good leadership skills (in particular the ability and willingness to identify and defer to the people who do have expertise), and a clear devotion to the public interest above all others. It is on these fronts that discussion of Baird's performance should focus. Does he listen to the scientific consensus, or court the outliers and unpublished conspiracy theorists, when it comes to global warming? Does he act in the public interest, including the interest of future generations, or in the interests of multinational petroleum companies?

Questions about his own education are nearly as irrelevant as poisonous and moronic burbling about David Suzuki. Baird doesn't need to be an expert. He only needs to be a good Environment Minister. If he isn't, it wouldn't matter if he'd done a PhD in climatology.

[charter.rights]

The answer to the thread question is simple: Baird has a B.A. in Political Science.

The answer to the implicit questions of how this qualifies him to make scientific judgments regarding global warming, or macro-economic judgments about the effects of anti-pollution policies, is less simple, but hardly difficult: It doesn't.

But then, it is relatively rare for government ministers to have expertise in their portfolio. What they are supposed to have, rather, are good leadership skills (in particular the ability and willingness to identify and defer to the people who do have expertise), and a clear devotion to the public interest above all others. It is on these fronts that discussion of Baird's performance should focus. Does he listen to the scientific consensus, or court the outliers and unpublished conspiracy theorists, when it comes to global warming? Does he act in the public interest, including the interest of future generations, or in the interests of multinational petroleum companies?

Questions about his own education are nearly as irrelevant as poisonous and moronic burbling about David Suzuki. Baird doesn't need to be an expert. He only needs to be a good Environment Minister. If he isn't, it wouldn't matter if he'd done a PhD in climatology.

I think that is a B.S. in Political Science.....

As minister he needs to be informed and well versed in the ministerial duties he has been assigned. Usually Ministers are selected for their leanings toward the subjects they are in charge of. However, while he needn't be an expert in his portfolio, he should be confident enough to demonstrate his knowledge and have enough well educated and experienced people who are expert on his portfolio.

Baird appears neither to understand his position, or the subject matter he has a responsibility for.

I too, like the suggestion that he be presented with the opportunity to go head to head with Dr. Suzuki complete with the invitation for Baird to bring in his advisers to the debate. When a Minister is simply using his B.S. degree to paint over the realities behind poor policy, there is no doubt that any open debate on the subject will expose his weak position. His appointment to the position is nothing more than a appeasement to big oil that the government will not do anything to change the status quo.

[capricorn]

I too, like the suggestion that he be presented with the opportunity to go head to head with Dr. Suzuki complete with the invitation for Baird to bring in his advisers to the debate.

Realistically, any potential debate on the environment should take place between Baird and David McGuinty, the Liberal Environment critic. To be fair, Suzuki has been mentored for years by Al Gore and we know those two are in a class of their own.

[Kitchener]

To be fair, Suzuki has been mentored for years by Al Gore and we know those two are in a class of their own.

I wouldn't have thought they were in the same class, with respect to the volume and stupidity of neo-con hysteria that gets babbled about them (which I can only assume is the comparison you meant to raise). Yet this thread is convincing me that there may be something to your suggestion, at least as regards Canadian Republicans.

[Michael Bluth]

I wouldn't have thought they were in the same class, with respect to the volume and stupidity of neo-con hysteria that gets babbled about them (which I can only assume is the comparison you meant to raise). Yet this thread is convincing me that there may be something to your suggestion, at least as regards Canadian Republicans.

Wow, inauspicious start.

We do have rules about insults and respect on this forum.

Please take a look and try and debate with a little integrity.

If you just want a forum to say f*ck the Conservative Party of Canada I'm sure rabble.ca will suit you fine.

[Kitchener]

Wow, inauspicious start.

We do have rules about insults and respect on this forum.

Please take a look and try and debate with a little integrity.

If you just want a forum to say f*ck the Conservative Party of Canada I'm sure rabble.ca will suit you fine.

Well, I'm certainly not here to discuss things you imagine or make up -- even if they do have an amusing irony.

Say something substantive and intelligent and I'll be happy to engage. You could start by agreeing or disagreeing with my carefully explained take on the near-irrelevance of Baird's environmental expertise -- a point against Baird's critics more than his boosters.

[Michael Bluth]

Say something substantive and intelligent and I'll be happy to engage. You could start by agreeing or disagreeing with my carefully explained take on the near-irrelevance of Baird's environmental expertise -- a point against Baird's critics more than his boosters.

Was this what you considered to be a 'carefully-explained' take?

When a Minister is simply using his B.S. degree to paint over the realities behind poor policy, there is no doubt that any open debate on the subject will expose his weak position. His appointment to the position is nothing more than a appeasement to big oil that the government will not do anything to change the status quo.

Using BS as shorthand for bullsh*t is pretty disrespectful.

BSc is the correct acronym if you were actually referring to a Bachelor of Science degree. Given that Minister Baird has earned a BA and not a BSc it appears that your use of the term BS was meant in the disrespectful sense.

[Kitchener]

Was this what you considered to be a 'carefully-explained' take?

Using BS as shorthand for bullsh*t is pretty disrespectful.

BSc is the correct acronym if you were actually referring to a Bachelor of Science degree. Given that Minister Baird has earned a BA and not a BSc it appears that your use of the term BS was meant in the disrespectful sense.

Fascinating. Thanks for the education.

However, I clearly described Baird's degree as a B.A. Which it is. And the post about which you are whining -- apparently for the second time -- is clearly not mine.

Any more words of wisdom on what constitutes disrespect, and the importance of posting with integrity?

[jdobbin]

Fascinating. Thanks for the education.

However, I clearly described Baird's degree as a B.A. Which it is. And the post about which you are whining -- apparently for the second time -- is clearly not mine.

Any more words of wisdom on what constitutes disrespect, and the importance of posting with integrity?

Wonder if you will get an apology. It isn't the first mistake he has made. He once tried to say the CCF was made up of disaffected Liberals.

Here's when that little mistake took place:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....st&p=239688

Edited December 27, 2007 by jdobbin