Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[DrGreenthumb]

I don't know where the feminists are but the bigots and the racists are right here in this thread.

Hey MikeDavid, look out there goes a brown person! Haha scared you!

[JerrySeinfeld]

I don't know where the feminists are but the bigots and the racists are right here in this thread.

Hey MikeDavid, look out there goes a brown person! Haha scared you!

how come the most intelligent discouse any lefty can come up with is name calling.

Using the word "Racist" any time someone says something about a group of people is an aggresive and unintelligent method of discourse.

It's what people use when they haven't any leg to stand upon.

[MontyBurns]

The left is the most intolerant of all. It claims to be "tolerant" but constantly discriminates against rich people, religious people, white people, men, Americans, conservatives and normal families.

[AngusThermopyle]

how come the most intelligent discouse any lefty can come up with is name calling.

So far all I've seen from Greenthumb is insults and name calling, nothing of real substance.

[Alexandra]

More and more it seems this murder has less to do with islamic honour and more to do with a rebelious teenager and a father with serious anger issues. Unfortunately it make the murder somewhat banal.

This kid isn't a hero, she is a victim.

Yes, she is a victim. A victim of a father, mother, brothers and sisters whose beliefs in the trappings of a religion/culture were of more importance to the honour of the family than the life of a daughter or sister.

`

[Black Dog]

Oh good: Monty's back.

The left is the most intolerant of all. It claims to be "tolerant" but constantly discriminates against rich people, religious people, white people, men, Americans, conservatives and normal families.

Which is why all those groups are languishing at the bottom of society today. Waitaminute...

Anyhoo, it's indisputable that we live in a society where violence against women and girls is relatively commonplace (and yeah, I know men face violence from men too, but we're talking about two totally distinct dynamics here). As Dancer said, this would be regarded as a banal case of domestic violence were it not for the headline grabbing hijab angle. And that fact, along with the fact that none of the people here currently up in arms would give two shits about this case were it not for the race and creed of those involved, should be the real story here.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Oh good: Monty's back.

Which is why all those groups are languishing at the bottom of society today. Waitaminute...

Anyhoo, it's indisputable that we live in a society where violence against women and girls is relatively commonplace (and yeah, I know men face violence from men too, but we're talking about two totally distinct dynamics here). As Dancer said, this would be regarded as a banal case of domestic violence were it not for the headline grabbing hijab angle. And that fact, along with the fact that none of the people here currently up in arms would give two shits about this case were it not for the race and creed of those involved, should be the real story here.

So to clarify: you do have a problem with Muslim men killing their daughters over "honour", it's just the media coverage you don't like? Got it.

As for your first point, it actually unintentionally reveals the undercurrent of leftist thought: it's not really discrimination you despise so much, it's priviledge.

[Black Dog]

So to clarify: you do have a problem with Muslim men killing their daughters over "honour", it's just the media coverage you don't like? Got it.

You know what I like about you, Jerry? No matter how much time you spend here, you don't learn a single damn thing. Like how to read, for instance. The effort that must go into that kind of willful ignorance is commendable in its own way.

As for your first point, it actually unintentionally reveals the undercurrent of leftist thought: it's not really discrimination you despise so much, it's priviledge.

Actually it quite intentionally reveals my hatred of privilege, particularly the unearned variety. Thanks for playing, though.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Black Dog

[Shakeyhands]

The left is the most intolerant of all. It claims to be "tolerant" but constantly discriminates against rich people, religious people, white people, men, Americans, conservatives and normal families.

Wow... Jumping right in eh!

[DrGreenthumb]

how come the most intelligent discouse any lefty can come up with is name calling.

Using the word "Racist" any time someone says something about a group of people is an aggresive and unintelligent method of discourse.

It's what people use when they haven't any leg to stand upon.

When someone is so openly bigoted and racist as to refer to another ethnic group as "sand people", calling that person a racist or bigot is not "name calling", it is stating the obvious.

There are a few of you who insist on displaying your white supremecist attitude in here, i know you must get sick of people pointing out what nasty bigoted losers you are but thats the price you pay for being a bigoted asshole.

Any of you that think you are superior because of the colour of your skin or your good fortune at being born into privelige are really just so pathetic I don't know why I bother wasting my time on you. You refer to entire races of people as dirty, as sand people, and then critisize me as a name caller for telling you what a bigoted piece of shit you are? Comments made by several people in this thread look an awful lot like hate speech to me. Is it your intention MikeDavid, Jerry etc to insite hatred of minorities to further your agenda of stopping immigration to Canada?

Please don't tell me or the rest of us any more lies about your "minority" friends either, its just so cliche. Why would anyone want to be friends with someone who considers them not worth as much because of their ethnicity?

[August1991]

As Dancer said, this would be regarded as a banal case of domestic violence were it not for the headline grabbing hijab angle.

But it's a doozy of a headline, BD.

It's like saying that 9/11 would have been a banal plane crash were it not for the hijackers.

I don't know where the feminists are but the bigots and the racists are right here in this thread.

I disagree strongly with many of the remarks in this thread but DrGreen, I don't think debate is well served by declaring an opponent immoral to shut down discussion.

Instead, confront these opinions with reasoned arguments.

----

Many Muslim groups in Canada have condemned this father's behaviour. Some have argued that wearing the hijab should be seen as oppressive. OTOH, it is foolish to defend all Muslims or to pretend that they are the same as Christians or Atheists. It is particularly misguided to think that Islam or the tradiitional family had nothing to do with this girl's death.

I am sometimes appalled how a human tragedy can so quickly become a debating point for the Left and Right to use as a football. Each side wants to use this as proof for its worldview and no one really wants to know what happened and why.

Edited December 15, 2007 by August1991

[Alexandra]

Anyhoo, it's indisputable that we live in a society where violence against women and girls is relatively commonplace (and yeah, I know men face violence from men too, but we're talking about two totally distinct dynamics here). As Dancer said, this would be regarded as a banal case of domestic violence were it not for the headline grabbing hijab angle. And that fact, along with the fact that none of the people here currently up in arms would give two shits about this case were it not for the race and creed of those involved, should be the real story here.

Just like the real story of the several murders in the past few months in certain communities in B.C. had it not been for the "race and creed involved" would not have drawn the ire of the ultra militant left-wing feminists against the less than militant women with their usual rather malicious attacks of 'racism and bigotry' simply because the various women chose to protest the religious/culturally motivated murders of these women, most of whom were involved in 'arranged marriages', some of whom were recent immigrants.

There are many women who do not belong to the so-called 'feminist militants' who do give "two sh*ts" about these women from the patriarchal religions/cultures who suffer and in some cases, die. Because of their religion/culture. There are many women who deny vociferously (check a few of the militant feminist forums/websites) that these women are murdered by the men in their family because of the religion/culture of their "race and creed" just as this girl in Mississauga was murdered because of the family's religion and culture. The hard-core feminists are loudly protesting that this girl's killing is because of "Hatred for Women" by men. Of course. Couldn't have anything to do with the "race or creed". 'Remind' you of a certain some-thing, Black Dog?

[kengs333]

The left is the most intolerant of all. It claims to be "tolerant" but constantly discriminates against rich people, religious people, white people, men, Americans, conservatives and normal families.

You should try posting on rabble.ca if you haven't had the chance. It's fun. all you do is make rational, common sense arguments and you'll get called every name in the book and then banned for being a troll within a couple days.

[kengs333]

Anyhoo, it's indisputable that we live in a society where violence against women and girls is relatively commonplace (and yeah, I know men face violence from men too, but we're talking about two totally distinct dynamics here). As Dancer said, this would be regarded as a banal case of domestic violence were it not for the headline grabbing hijab angle. And that fact, along with the fact that none of the people here currently up in arms would give two shits about this case were it not for the race and creed of those involved, should be the real story here.

Violence is something that predominantly happens against men in this society, but despite the expectation that we view women as equals, whenever women are the victims of violence there is a disproportionately greater amount of sympathy for them than there is for men.

In late September this year, a 16 year-old boy was killed in a random act of violence while standing at a bus stop waiting to go to his part-time job. From what I've read, he was a good kid not involved in any of the activity usually at the root of murder in Toronto. What's his name? More recently, we have Keyon Campbell, also 16 year-old, also not involved in that type of activity; he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Well, at least we know is name, but he will no doubt soon be forgotten. But we all know Jane Creba, and many will no doubt remember her for some time to come. Would we if she happened to have been a male? A black male? Probably not.

It goes both ways.

[Shakeyhands]

You should try posting on rabble.ca if you haven't had the chance. It's fun. all you do is make rational, common sense arguments and you'll get called every name in the book and then banned for being a troll within a couple days.

Interesting, you must know someone who made rational, common sense arguments over there at Rabble?

[kengs333]

Interesting, you must know someone who made rational, common sense arguments over there at Rabble?

Yes.

[Argus]

Anyhoo, it's indisputable that we live in a society where violence against women and girls is relatively commonplace (and yeah, I know men face violence from men too, but we're talking about two totally distinct dynamics here). As Dancer said, this would be regarded as a banal case of domestic violence were it not for the headline grabbing hijab angle.

You're implying that this sort of thing happens a lot. Can you find another case that didn't involve an immigrant? I'm speaking about a father deliberately murdering his daughter - with nothing else involved. No divorce, no crazed suicide, just deliberately murdering his daughter because he didn't approve of her behaviour. Banal? I can't think of another case. Ever. Some drunk throwing his baby maybe, but a stone cold sober sane man murdering his daughter for her behaviour? No, that doesn't happen here.

And that fact, along with the fact that none of the people here currently up in arms would give two shits about this case were it not for the race and creed of those involved, should be the real story here.

Or perhaps that due to the race of those involved you and those others who profess to care about violence against women don't give two shits about this case.

[Argus]

So far all I've seen from Greenthumb is insults and name calling, nothing of real substance.

I doubt he is capable of substance. I doubt he will even last long. He'll be the next one banned.

[Drea]

Violence is something that predominantly happens against men in this society, but despite the expectation that we view women as equals, whenever women are the victims of violence there is a disproportionately greater amount of sympathy for them than there is for men.

In late September this year, a 16 year-old boy was killed in a random act of violence while standing at a bus stop waiting to go to his part-time job.

I didn't hear about that one...was he killed by a woman?

Men are doing the killing. It's the rare occurance (more all the time though -- equality in good and bad I guess) that a woman is the killer.

A bit back one poster talked about his ethnic friend "hiding" from her parent's taxi cab... I hid from my parents as a teen too! I remember hiding down in the ditch with my boyfriend because I wanted to spend the night with him. I could hear my mom calling and calling my name. When I think back and remember her voice, how she sounded so desperate to find me, I can imagine how worried she must have been. If she would've caught me that day she would've wrung my neck. Later in life, I apologized for making her worry that night.

A teenager CAN drive you to many things.... not that I am making excuses for this man, but teenagers can drive you all the way aroung the bend.

[Canuck E Stan]

A teenager CAN drive you to many things.... not that I am making excuses for this man, but teenagers can drive you all the way aroung the bend.

Teenagers can drive you around the bend?.........to make you kill?

I'm afraid you are making excuses, and probably need help yourself in dealing with teens.

[Guest American Woman]

I am sometimes appalled how a human tragedy can so quickly become a debating point for the Left and Right to use as a football. Each side wants to use this as proof for its worldview and no one really wants to know what happened and why.

I agree. There are issues pertaining to this incident that would be interesting to discuss and pursue, but they seem to be lost in all the 'left this' and 'right that' and 'muslim bashers this' etc. along with a whole lotta discussion about a few individual posters (who in my opinion really don't warrant the attention). There are a few interesting posts inbetween if one takes the time to pick through all the pages of posts, but for the most part it seems futile to post facts/links in hopes of fostering any real discussion. They are either ignored or dismissed without any rebuttal. I feel that one cannot look at this incident as 'muslims are evil' or as 'his being muslim had nothing to do with it.' It's not about either one of those things (and really neither viewpoint is true). It's about the tragic loss of a beautiful young woman's life and hopefully trying to understand the problems of immigration into such a different culture-- and trying to prevent or at least lessen the problems/tragedies that can result.

Edited December 15, 2007 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

A teenager CAN drive you to many things.... not that I am making excuses for this man, but teenagers can drive you all the way aroung the bend.

Do you say this every time someone is murdered? For example, when a man kills a woman, do you say (since 'men are from venus and women are from mars' and therefore sometimes frustrate the other to the point where they 'can drive the other sex all the way aroung the bend') that 'a woman can drive a man to many things' ....... Because I'm thinking you don't.

Edited December 15, 2007 by American Woman

[Drea]

Do you say this every time someone is murdered? For example, when a man kills a woman, do you say (since 'men are from venus and women are from mars' and therefore sometimes frustrate the other to the point where they 'can drive the other sex all the way aroung the bend') that 'a woman can drive a man to many things' ....... Because I'm thinking you don't.

Of course not. Frig.

The relationship between a parent and child is different than the relationship between spouses. But you know that.

One may smack a toddler on their butt, but one would not swat their spouse -- the relationship is different. Children are not our equals. They are ours to teach and to guide and to get extremely exasperated with! If you get completely exasperated with your spouse (as one does with a teenager), perhaps you should get a divorce.

once again because you are frothing over this over there ----------> I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE MAN. HE IS A MURDERER.

Okay? Are you okay now.... or should we call the paramedics?

[Guest American Woman]

You aren't even able to discuss this without losing control. Seems to me you may have some anger control issues, which explains your comment about teens 'driving you all around the bend' in response to a father murdering his daughter.

But yeah. I think you should call the paramedics. Judging by the tone of your response, I'd say your blood pressure is reaching a dangerously high level.

[Drea]

Teenagers can drive you around the bend?.........to make you kill?

I'm afraid you are making excuses, and probably need help yourself in dealing with teens.

No, I was a bad teen. I did that ditch hiding thing at 14. I lipped off to my mother and was a terrible sullen, pain in the ass until I was about 16. Teenagers CAN drive a parent to the brink. I did it to my poor mom alot during those two rebellious years. I am lucky to be alive IMO

As a parent I choose to operate differently than my parents did.

I did, however, grab my son by the shoulders when he was 13 and made sure and in no uncertain terms that he would never ever disrespect me again.

So far so good.