Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[mikedavid00]

How many here can honestly say that they have not been pushed close to the brink by a family member or loved one,

Yes I can honestly say that I would never grab my OWN daughter and choke her for 3 mintues while she struggles and begins to turn blue in the face and slowely starts to go limp and lose power.. and then she struggles again but I continue to choke her with all my strength until she finally dies. All this over 3 long minutes.

No one does this. Point me to one news article where a father sufficates his daughter for 'disrespecting' cultural values... let alone suficating their daughters at all.

The post you made was sickening. You are a true, typical, compationate for evil, self hating, CBC brainwashed Canadian.

[Canadian Blue]

About as sickening as the post more concerned about the financial costs to Canada instead of the death of a young girl. Here is someone who adopted secular values, and probably died because of them, yet your first inclination is to be worried about what the financial costs were.

[Lazarus]

Lazarus, it would be mistaken to ignore the fact that the family is Muslim. This has played prominently in news reports for a reason. It matters both for the crime itself and for the public perception of this tragedy.

Women in traditional Muslim families do not have the same freedoms as men. This is a source of friction when such families live in North America.

It is foolishly politically correct to pretend otherwise.

Wrong, the Muslim angle was predominately played in the media because Muslims are todays boogie-men. Before it was teh Chinese and other Asians. Actually, when a person of any ethnic minority commits a violent act, their race or religion is played up big time in the media. First nations, Asian (usually the media will so far as to identify what type of Asian the person is, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Malay), East Indian, doesn't matter to the media, as long as they can make a point of a visible minorities ethnic or religious background, they will do so with great relish, even if the person in question is umpteenth generation Canadian. However, if O'Hara killed his wife in a drunken rage, we would not be hearing the media scream, Irish Catholic man murders wife in drunken rage would we?

There is nothing remotely politically correct to point this out, it is simple acknowledging that we have an inborn bias against others, it may not be outright racism or bigotry, but it is a bias none the less.

As for women having less freedom in traditional Muslim families, well I have seen more then a few fundamental Christian families where women are still treated like property and have little actual freedom. All religions have this in common in some of their sects. I went to one domestic call where the husband was punishing his wife with a belt, seems she failed in her wifely duties somehow. Anyways, while arresting him, she pleaded with us not to take him, that she was at fault, all the while he was going on about how we were interfering with his God Given right to chastise his wife. Nice Christian family too judging by the crosses and other Christian icons adorning their walls. Turned out it was their son that dropped the dime on the bastard.

The thing is, there is always some friction when people immigrate to a new land, with differing morals and standards. Most families adjust to those standards given time, some don't. Lately I have noticed a lot of intolerance towards not only Muslim immigrants here, but also towards Asians, East Indians and even towards Eastern Europeans to a lesser extend. I have to wonder how well most of us would do if we decided to settle in say China or even the Philippines. Bet we would be bringing a lot of cultural baggage along with us.

[Lazarus]

Yes I can honestly say that I would never grab my OWN daughter and choke her for 3 mintues while she struggles and begins to turn blue in the face and slowely starts to go limp and lose power.. and then she struggles again but I continue to choke her with all my strength until she finally dies. All this over 3 long minutes.

No one does this. Point me to one news article where a father sufficates his daughter for 'disrespecting' cultural values... let alone suficating their daughters at all.

The post you made was sickening. You are a true, typical, compationate for evil, self hating, CBC brainwashed Canadian.

Go forth and reproduce thyself solo. You my friend are one sick, twisted and angry individual. Odds are you will go postal one day and take out a bunch of strangers. In the mean time, you can join BC20004 on my ignore list......TTFN mofo

[Lazarus]

About as sickening as the post more concerned about the financial costs to Canada instead of the death of a young girl. Here is someone who adopted secular values, and probably died because of them, yet your first inclination is to be worried about what the financial costs were.

Its called Compassionate Conservativism....which is neither Compassionate, nor Conservative.

[August1991]

Wrong, the Muslim angle was predominately played in the media because Muslims are todays boogie-men.

Uh, not really. The Muslim angle was played because by all accounts, the girl didn't wear hijab as her father and brothers wanted.

As for women having less freedom in traditional Muslim families, well I have seen more then a few fundamental Christian families where women are still treated like property and have little actual freedom.

That is your western political correctness showing through. You are simply incapable of stating that different religions and cultures are, well, different. Underneath, you want to believe that everyone is the same. Well, they're not.

I suggest that you go and live in the Middle East for awhile and experience first hand the treatment meted out to women. Then, come back and state as you did that fundamentalist Christians are no different.

This is an aspect of this tragedy that simply cannot be ignored. To do so is to let ideology blind you to the obvious. Western civilization didn't get where it is so easily.

Edited December 12, 2007 by August1991

[Guest American Woman]

From what I can gather from the news radio at work, the father himself called the police stating he thought he had killed his daughter.

Many years ago I was a cop and attended more then my fair share of violent domestic disturbance calls. Usually the violence doesn't just happen, a slowly escalating series of events leads towards a snapping point and in a fit of anger and rage, someone does something causing harm to another. Odds are this is what happened here. The issue was the daughter refusing to wear the traditional head scarf and going against her father's authority. Words were said, tempers flared, harsher words were said, neither side willing to back down, both believing they are in the right, then something snapped and violence occurred, leaving a young girl dead, her father now murder and a family shattered. I give him some grudging credit, he knew he had done wrong and he could of attempted to cover it up, hide the body or pull the old, my daughter has gone missing routine, he didn't do any of these things, he called the police and turned himself in. Judging from what little I have heard, I would say that this killing was done in the passion of the moment and was not premeditated, and hence he will be charged with second degree murder and when convicted will do prison time.

I've read several articles about this incident in different news outlets. Some interview the girl's friends, who say she lived in fear of her father and brother. They say she even wanted to leave home and live with a friend, and according to their accounts, her father said he would kill her if she ever left. Some accounts say she was staying with a friend and went home to get some of her things, so if that does turn out to be true, I would say it could have been premeditated, although I'm sure it ultimately won't play out that way. But to say it was just done 'in the passion of the moment' is questionable.

..... Their religion has little to do with other then being the catalyst. He could well of been a good Christian man who got angry with his daughter for sleeping around, or doing drugs, or whatever and could of snapped during an argument over her lifestyle. The majority of these types of killings, be parent killing child, child killing parent or spouse killing spouse happen in the heat of the moment.

Their religion, in this case, has a lot to do with it. It was her refusal to wear the hijab, her desire to wear western clothing, that was the problem. "Sleeping around, or doing drugs" aren't comparable to wanting to wear western clothes. You make it sound as if wearing western clothes, sleeping around, and doing drugs are just all different lifestyle choices within society. Furthermore, there is no such thing as Christian "honor killing." That is not accepted by Christians/cultures/societies anywhere.

How many here can honestly say that they have not been pushed close to the brink by a family member or loved one, where you have come close to or actually have snapped and lashed out, or have been on the receiving end of being lashed out at? Such violence is in-excusable, however it is understandable. The man will have his day in court and he will be punished by the laws of Canada.

I think very few people here have grabbed the neck of their child and continued to squeeze as the life drained from them. A quick swat on the butt is not comparable to the amount of time it takes to strangle someone. This father lost it in a way that most people do not.

But what is almost as sickening as the act, is that there are those that would use this tragedy to push their own political agenda, namely the anti-immigration, anti-Islam, anti-nonwhite pro-Eurocentric Christian only agenda. Listening to these bottom dwelling mouth-breathers, I can hear the echo's of May 23, 1914 resounding as once again, the scared and insecure White men of Canada attempt to hold back the "Brown Invasion".

I think it's totally wrong to use this incident for an anti-Muslim, anti-immigration rant. But I think it's a mistake not see it for what it is, too. Canada does have different laws than Muslim countries. One cannot deny that. It's important for everyone moving there to realize that. If one thinks their actions are 'acceptable,' then they are going to be more likely to engage in them. Furthermore, the different cultural values do make for problems. It's understandable that a teenage girl living in Canada would want to want to live a 'western' lifestyle. I wonder if there should be councelling services available to those from extremely different cultures when they emigrate to western nations. Perhaps they have no idea what they're up against. Maybe there should be some services to help them make the transition.

Edited December 12, 2007 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

link: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/t...ith-father.aspx

The 16-year-old Mississauga girl who was allegedly strangled by her father in a dispute over her refusal to wear the hijab has died.

Why do we never hear about Muslim boys being killed by their fathers? What would drive someone to murder their daughter for not wearing a garment? Did religion play a factor in this situation?

This kind of thing disgusts me and the fact that the son is being charged with obstructing the police makes me wonder what he actually did to have them lay those charges on him.

[cybercoma]

The man killed his daughter becuase he knew he would get away with it in the court system.

I'm sure that's exactly the thought that was going through his head as he was choking the life out of his daughter.

[mikedavid00]

I'm sure that's exactly the thought that was going through his head as he was choking the life out of his daughter.

UPDATE: Father charged with second degree murder and has not been offered bail

[cybercoma]

This strikes me as the core of the discussion here.

If some angry Christian guy kills his daughter or his wife, then we say that he's an abusive wife-beater.

If some angry Muslim guy kills his wife or daughter, then we say that he's a typical Islamic patriarch.

And after all is said, the tragedy here is that regardless of the reason, a young girl is dead.

You're missing the point.

If some angry Christian guy kills his daughter because she refuses to go to church, then he'd be a Christian nut.

If some angry Muslim guy kills his daughter because she refuses to wear some religious garb, then he'd be an Islamic nut.

Religion is the issue here because if he were atheist, he'd have had no reason to murder her.

[M.Dancer]

UPDATE: Father charged with second degree murder and has not been offered bail

....but but....I thought you and some others said we would pander to his creed and lay his sins on the alter of multicult.......!!!!!!!

[mikedavid00]

I'm sure that's exactly the thought that was going through his head as he was choking the life out of his daughter.

They think they own our systems and our above our laws. That's the way they think. They think this country is based off the glorification of xenephobic cultures.

That's the fault of the Liberal Party of Canada and the CBC. As well as political hijacking.

There are MANY sympathisers already to the father if you read some of the facebook groups. The children and women are treated as cattle. Farm animals. People to be married off. Tools used to help the parents.

A few weeks back we visited this immigrant south asian family and the Dad of the family kept cutting my fiance off every time she would talk. It was very blaring.

They completely disregard women as people. Make them wear cloths over their had. Make them prisoners in their own home.

I have many friends that are like that.

[cybercoma]

I'm guessing the Christian guy didn't kill his daughter or his wife for refusing to go to mass or to confession or refusing to partake in some other religious belief. Christians aren't doing that, while some Muslims do engage in honor killings. This father was angry because his daughter refused to wear the hijab. That's not saying it's "typical" of Muslims, but it does happen.

There is no moral equivalency between the two religions. Islam is more barbaric in modern times, but it's not a contest about who can kill more people. Faith-based thinking (belief in ideas without "reason" or irrational belief) and the defense of those ideas by moderates is what allows idiot fanatics like these to emerge.

[Canadian Blue]

Anyone else notice how Mikedavid always conveniently has immigrant friends that prove his case that all immigrants are evil.

[M.Dancer]

Anyone else notice how Mikedavid always conveniently has immigrant friends that prove his case that all immigrants are evil.

Why would immigrants want to be friends with someone who obviously is ignorant of their values and depises them from the get go?

[cybercoma]

All religions have this in common in some of their sects.

Justification without reason, just faith. It seems like insanity to me that these people not only believe in a mystical creator, but seem to KNOW what that thing is thinking or wants. It also seems insane to me that it's a valid excuse to justify such abuse and that people should be FREE to believe these things.

There's another thread in the religious forum asking if Scientology is dangerous, perhaps a better question is whether or not religion in general is dangerous.

[cybercoma]

They think they own our systems and our above our laws. That's the way they think. They think this country is based off the glorification of xenephobic cultures.

That's the fault of the Liberal Party of Canada and the CBC. As well as political hijacking.

There are MANY sympathisers already to the father if you read some of the facebook groups. The children and women are treated as cattle. Farm animals. People to be married off. Tools used to help the parents.

A few weeks back we visited this immigrant south asian family and the Dad of the family kept cutting my fiance off every time she would talk. It was very blaring.

They completely disregard women as people. Make them wear cloths over their had. Make them prisoners in their own home.

I have many friends that are like that.

If you don't understand how logically flawed your argument here is, then I'm sorry, but there's no point in having any sort of rational discussion with you. You haven't posted a single fact or piece of evidence here, you're simply spouting off your personal opinions. That's fine, but you really don't gain any credibility by doing that. So when everyone here is saying negative things about you and your posts, keep in mind that you're not doing yourself any favours here.

[mikedavid00]

This strikes me as the core of the discussion here.

If some angry Christian guy kills his daughter or his wife, then we say that he's an abusive wife-beater.

If some angry Muslim guy kills his wife or daughter, then we say that he's a typical Islamic patriarch.

And after all is said, the tragedy here is that regardless of the reason, a young girl is dead.

I disagree.

There is beating and abuse, and then honor killing because a family member is dishonouring your family. There is the mentality that it's ok to stangle one of your children to death. It's not an easy task to strangle someone to death and she wasn't a very frail girl either. He must have really had to sufficate her a controlled manner until she 'drowned'. I'm just amazed you are taking the road of 'well what he did was no different then any other person in our society.'

This one girl in Vancouver who was friends with my ex gf (very, very pretty i might add) was pushed down the stairs by her father and got a broken arm because she was dating 'a boy'. And this boy was also south asian as she was. She was like 22 years old.

Another Sikh girl in Ottawa was seen dating another south asian boy at 20 years old and her Dad litterally trapped her in the house for a year. No joking. She eventually got an arranged marriage to a dentist in Punjab who was 10 years older than her. He came here and got rejected from every school he applied to and then worked at tim hortons and didn't tell anyone and then the family started to question his credentials.

Another of my friends I had to drop off down the street all the time because she couldn't be seen with boys. She was caught dating a boy once (another south asian) and her Dad wouldn't talk to her for a whole year. Her parents then got her a cel phone and they would call her constantly and tell her to come home. He dad was a cabbie in ottawa. When we passed by another cab, she would duck down incase it was one of her Dad's friends.

Another Sikh family I know caught the turban wearing son smoking at 16 years old. I'm absultely not making this up. They kicked him out of the house and he ended up at the Royal Ottawa hospital. (a mental hospital) and he disowned his son. Then the father moved out and took a job in Florida and left the family. Then after the son moved back in. That was a very hard time for one of my best friends family. Her mom had to go on medication. The father has a picture in his living room of him shaking hands with Jean Chretien.

Another girl I know (and dated) got a scholarship to Waterloo's engineering program. She was never allowed outside the house in Ottawa. She moved to waterloo, she dated a white guy roomate. The guy cheated on her. She failed out of school because she was too busy partying and discovering life (never given freedom before to leave the home in Ottawa). So then she decided to work and drop out of school and not tell her parents and wanted to continue to live in Waterloo. The Dad found out and came in a van and picked her up and brought her hom at 22 years old where she then became a slave in Ottawa not allowed to go out. The parents are currently trying to arrange a marriage with her and she's still single.

[cybercoma]

Anecdotal evidence is crap, a load of anecdotal evidence is..... well a load of crap.

[Canadian Blue]

Mikedavid, why are you friends with people that you despise?

[mikedavid00]

I think it's totally wrong to use this incident for an anti-Muslim, anti-immigration rant.

All sorts of organizations and people will use this tragedy to their benefit...

Canada does have different laws than Muslim countries. One cannot deny that. It's important for everyone moving there to realize that. If one thinks their actions are 'acceptable,' then they are going to be more likely to engage in them.

It's also a south asian cultural issue with arranaged marriage at the heart of the matter. IMO, a form of human slavory.

It's understandable that a teenage girl living in Canada would want to want to live a 'western' lifestyle.

Not really anymore. Many, many kids are ghettoising themslves to their racial communities within highschool. It's visibly evident anytime you see a group of highschool kids.

What makes Aqsa a hero is that she took the step of being color blind and integrating in with society. She did something that should be ENCOURAGED in Canada. The Liberal party and other wacko's on this forum actually applaud the fact that races ghettoise themselvs and do not speak English or mix with 'outsiders'.

I wonder if there should be councelling services

NO! I'm certainly not going to pay for that.

available to those from extremely different cultures when they emigrate to western nations. Perhaps they have no idea what they're up against. Maybe there should be some services to help them make the transition.

This is where I completely disagree with you.

Honestly this family SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HERE. The quality of people that we're letting into Canada has just plummited. The US doesn't have this problem at all becuase the people they let in are there to work. End of story. There are not street trash from the 3rd world wandering into Canada at 57 years old.

The house had 6 people, people collecting cheques all over the place, the Dad working under the table as a cabbie (don't argue me on this), and most likely the basement getting rented out. These houses are NOT meant to be lived in like this and these people were NOT a benefit to Canada.

Yes, it's the cruelest, harshest thing to say. But it's factual. Lets avoid this incident, lets avoid the tasering.

If you don't have a job, you shall not come.

The open immigration into Canada with the excuse of population numbers has got to stop. It's destroying our country in every way possible. We have too many 'fish out of water' in Canada and it's destroying our way of life, our personal wealth, and welfare state.

Canadians are beginning to reach a breaking point. A co-worker here says he can't watch the news anymore after the hospital protest because he just can't believe what is going on in this country.

The sad part is too, the Quebec muslims (who are french) are MUCH, MUCH more integrated than the 3rd world trash seen in Ontario and BC. I would gladly trade.

[marcinmoka]

Anyone else notice how Mikedavid always conveniently has immigrant friends that prove his case that all immigrants are evil.

this one girl in Vancouver who was friends with my ex gf (very, very pretty i might add)

Another of my friends I had to drop off down the street all the time because she couldn't be seen with boys.

Another Sikh family I know caught the turban wearing son smoking at 16 years old. I'm absultely not making this up.

Another girl I know (and dated) got a scholarship to Waterloo's engineering program.

Mike, do you ever tell your "friends" that they are "3rd world trash" to their face?

-------------------------------

Wanna hear a true story, I swear am not making this up. I am an immigrant. My wife is an immigrant. Neither of us have ever been pushed, burned, disowned, abused.........in fact neither of us have ever incurred anything more than a slap to the back of the head by our respective mothers for not having finished out (english language) homework.

Edited December 12, 2007 by marcinmoka

[sharkman]

Anecdotal evidence is crap, a load of anecdotal evidence is..... well a load of crap.

I disagree. Studies can be full of crap merely by the bias inserted. So what does that prove, everything is crap? Stick your fingers in your ears and sing, "La la la la la la, I can't hear you!" every time you hear something that doesn't line up with your own bias?

It's common knowledge that the Hindu and Muslim cultures treat women as property, not people. This story, and Mikedavid's examples, are certainly not precedents, but just more typical behaviour.

Marcinmoka, you hold yourself up as proof immigrant families never treat their children as property to be abused, but you don't mention what religion your family is, so your point is inconclusive.

Edited December 12, 2007 by sharkman

[M.Dancer]

I disagree. Studies can be full of crap merely by the bias inserted. So what does that prove, everything is crap? Stick your fingers in your ears and sing, "La la la la la la, I can't hear you!" every time you hear something that doesn't line up with your own bias?

It's common knowledge that the Hindu and Muslim cultures treat women as property, not people. This story, and Mikedavid's examples, are certainly not precedents, but just more typical behaviour.

Okay, Mikedavids anecdotal evidence is crap. Often common knowledge is too, because it is all toio common that people make sweeping assumptions that aren't alltogether accurate.

Amazing the number of hindu women who are doctors....I hear they even elected one a Prime Minister.....