America Envy/Anti-Americanism - Whence it Came

[bush_cheney2004]

I actually don't even know what waterboarding is.

I think that's true for lots of people. Here is a lengthy "expose" from the Web....other references are getting harder to find as the practice falls into ill repute. Interesting is the criteria of "not causing organ failure".

http://current.com/pods/controversy/PD04399

[Moonlight Graham]

"Waterboarding is not painful" - where the hell do these people come from? Did you have a father that held your head in the sink till you thought you were going to die - in order for you as a 3 year old not to we the bed? Lunitics are bountiful these days it seems - Every time I see a weakling supporting killing - or torturing - it makes me wonder - actually it makes me think that all these sadistic cowards need one thing - square off with me in a standard old fashioned street fight - I WILL BET A MILLION BUCKS- that not one of these jerks cold hold there own in traditional mutual combat..that these condoners of tormenting human beings - would cower and weep like little girls if they had to actually take on another man physically in a fight - those arm chair critics that attempt to impose sadism as normal on society could not fight there way out of a wet paper bag as they say - For anyone of these little girly weasils that attempts to enforce barbarism from their comfortable little board room I have one name for you - WORM.

Well i don't want to square off with anyone, but most of the people who support torture have never had it done to them or had it affect them. I'm sure if an American citizen was take & tortured because they were thought suspicious, even before any trial was done, these same torture advocates would be up in arms. John McCain was tortured & he's the man up on the stage during the Republican debates chastizing the other Republican candidates for being in favour (or hiding his opinion, like Romney) of waterboarding etc.

I also think its is similar for many of us who support military efforts somewhere. We know the violence is horrible, but the vast majority of us have never experienced it or truly empathize with it. None of us in North America have experienced major military fighting in our cities like those in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. We've never hid in our basements when the bomb sirens went off, while holding a family member in your arms whose limbs have been blown off, sitting in a pitch-black house that hasn't had electricity for weeks & your toilet is filled with week-old urine, frightened to death while bombs are exploding all around you praying you won't get hit this time. I really couldn't even imagine the horror. We are so lucky where we are, protected by oceans, physically isolated from most of the bad news.

[bush_cheney2004]

....None of us in North America have experienced major military fighting in our cities like those in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. We've never hid in our basements when the bomb sirens went off, while holding a family member in your arms whose limbs have been blown off, sitting in a pitch-black house that hasn't had electricity for weeks & your toilet is filled with week-old urine, frightened to death while bombs are exploding all around you praying you won't get hit this time.....

Actually, many in North America have experienced such things.....that's why they came here.

[Guest American Woman]

Actually, many in North America have experienced such things.....that's why they came here.

The actual comment was "None of us in North America have experienced major military fighting in our cities..." with our cities (ie: North American cities) being germane to the point MG made.

[bush_cheney2004]

The actual comment was "None of us in North America have experienced major military fighting in our cities..." with our cities (ie: North American cities) being germane to the point MG made.

You left out this part:

....We've never hid in our basements when the bomb sirens went off, while holding a family member in your arms whose limbs have been blown off, sitting in a pitch-black house that hasn't had electricity for weeks & your toilet is filled with week-old urine, frightened to death while bombs are exploding all around you praying you won't get hit this time....

Actually, many in North America have experienced such things.....that's why they came here.

[Guest American Woman]

I repeat. Not in "our cities." Not in North American cities. Which is, as I said, germane to his point, since he ended it with: "We are so lucky where we are, protected by oceans, physically isolated from most of the bad news."

Edited January 6, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

I repeat. Not in "our cities." Not in North American cities. Which is was, as I said, germane to his point, since he ended it with: "We are so lucky where we are, protected by oceans, physically isolated from most of the bad news."

This is fun...so I repeat:

Actually, many in North America (cities) have experienced such things.....that's why they came here

[Topaz]

You left out this part:

....We've never hid in our basements when the bomb sirens went off, while holding a family member in your arms whose limbs have been blown off, sitting in a pitch-black house that hasn't had electricity for weeks & your toilet is filled with week-old urine, frightened to death while bombs are exploding all around you praying you won't get hit this time....

Actually, many in North America have experienced such things.....that's why they came here.

Come on BC you know that she meant HERE in NA, bomb haven't dropped as yet on us. Yes, you're right there many PEOPLE here have experienced the horror but NOT while they are living here.

[bush_cheney2004]

Come on BC you know that she meant HERE in NA, bomb haven't dropped as yet on us. Yes, you're right there many PEOPLE here have experienced the horror but NOT while they are living here.

False....bombs have "dropped" on North America. See Japanese balloon bombs.

Other attacks on North America are enumerated here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_No...ng_World_War_II

So it would seem AW is wrong on both counts.

Edited January 6, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

False....bombs have "dropped" on North America. See Japanese balloon bombs.

Other attacks on North America are enumerated here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_No...ng_World_War_II

So it would seem AW is wrong on both counts.

I wasn't aware that those attacks were "like those in Iraq, Afghanistan etc." I didn't realize people were "hiding in basements when the bomb sirens went off, while holding a family member in [their] arms whose limbs have been blown off, sitting in a pitch-black house that [hadn't] had electricity for weeks & [their] toilet [was] filled with week-old urine, frightened to death while bombs [were] exploding all around [them] praying [they wouldn't] get hit this time....." during the attacks you cited. If you would be so kind as to point out to me where it says they did endure that, I'm ready to be educated on the matter.

[bush_cheney2004]

...If you would be so kind as to point out to me where it says they did endure that, I'm ready to be educated on the matter.

I already have....educating you on American history seems to be a full time job.

[kengs333]

False....bombs have "dropped" on North America. See Japanese balloon bombs.

Other attacks on North America are enumerated here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_No...ng_World_War_II

So it would seem AW is wrong on both counts.

This is really kind of pathetic, don't you think? Suggesting that North America has been scarred by modern warfare because a few Japanese "balloon bombs" happened to (just) reach the West Coast and blow up a few people really makes one wonder about the American educational system (even more).

[bush_cheney2004]

This is really kind of pathetic, don't you think? Suggesting that North America has been scarred by modern warfare because a few Japanese "balloon bombs" happened to (just) reach the West Coast and blow up a few people really makes one wonder about the American educational system (even more).

Who said is was "scarred by modern warfare"? The assertion was that "bombs haven't dropped as yet on us". This is patently false. The bombings were classified during WW2 so as not to incite a panic beyond a "few dead people".

Many people living in N.A. have experienced "modern warfare".

Makes me wonder about the "Canadian" educational system too.

[kengs333]

Who said is was "scarred by modern warfare"? The assertion was that "bombs haven't dropped as yet on us". This is patently false. The bombings were classified during WW2 so as not to incite a panic beyond a "few dead people".

Many people living in N.A. have experienced "modern warfare".

Makes me wonder about the "Canadian" educational system too.

I think your posts on this subject have gone well beyond simply trying to sincerely clarify or prove a point. Call it what you will, but in the end suggesting that a few "balloon bombs" is even remotely legitimate towards proving that North Americans have been subjected to modern warfare as other regions of the world have been is pretty pathetic.

[Guest American Woman]

I think your posts on this subject have gone well beyond simply trying to sincerely clarify or prove a point. Call it what you will, but in the end suggesting that a few "balloon bombs" is even remotely legitimate towards proving that North Americans have been subjected to modern warfare as other regions of the world have been is pretty pathetic.

It's not only pathetic, it's downright ignorant. The original post was very clear in it's intent. No one has suggested that bombs have never been dropped on North America; clearly that's not what the post, or I, were saying at all. What was said is that we've never experienced here what they are experiencing in Afghanistan and Iraq; we have never experienced that kind of warfare in NA. And we haven't.

[White Doors]

It's not only pathetic, it's downright ignorant. The original post was very clear in it's intent. No one has suggested that bombs have never been dropped on North America; clearly that's not what the post, or I, were saying at all. What was said is that we've never experienced here what they are experiencing in Afghanistan and Iraq; we have never experienced that kind of warfare in NA. And we haven't.

AW, you should be the last one complaining about this. You love to twist what other people say and make a living out of it here on MLW.

Wilber was the last to experience your patented moral outrage and any clarification made was ignored so you could go on being morally outraged and wagging your finger and muttering 'tut tut tut'.

You are obtuse when the time calls for it so you should be the LAST to complain when the tables are turned.

Loosk good on you.

Bravo BC

[bush_cheney2004]

I think your posts on this subject have gone well beyond simply trying to sincerely clarify or prove a point. Call it what you will, but in the end suggesting that a few "balloon bombs" is even remotely legitimate towards proving that North Americans have been subjected to modern warfare as other regions of the world have been is pretty pathetic.

And I think you haven't a clue on the matter, wishing instead to discount America's past and recent experience with "modern warfare", from thousands of balloon bomb attempts by Japan to Boeing 767-200 airliners toppling the WTC and killing 3,000 people. Add some truck bombs, and the experiences of immigrants in many wars, and your position is not ironclad at all (pun intended). Must I go back to the American Civil War (first "modern war") to expose how historically inaccurate the original assertions are?

I am sure you have never seen the massive concrete bunkers along America's west coast that give evidence of how people "felt" at the time. I'm just here to play the game, and on this point, you lose.

[jbg]

AW, you should be the last one complaining about this. You love to twist what other people say and make a living out of it here on MLW.

*************

Looks good on you.

AW has some good posts on law and order issues.

[Bryan]

It's not only pathetic, it's downright ignorant.

You're just figuring that out about BC_2004?

[margrace]

B/C makes me think of my Dad, by the time one was done arguing with him, he had changed sides completely, my brother in law loves to do this also, there is no use arguing with someone like that they tend to make things up as they go along. The main problem is that they one arguing with B/C is being faithful to the truth and I don't think B/C know or cares what is true or not.

[BubberMiley]

Anti-Americanism comes from the envy/jealousy that is so prevalent on the left. If the left is as tolerant as it says it is, then it should have no trouble tolerating the Americans you would think.

Actually, I find the most claims that Canadians are anti-American coming from the right. Even today, Michael Coren claimed that "Canadians pride themselves on dismissing the United States as reactionary and unsophisticated." I don't know anyone who does that, but I suppose it's common in the circles he runs in. Perhaps it's a sense of material and power envy from those on the Canadian right at America's greater overall success.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/.../12/4769094.php

[Oleg Bach]

Actually, I find the most claims that Canadians are anti-American coming from the right. Even today, Michael Coren claimed that "Canadians pride themselves on dismissing the United States as reactionary and unsophisticated." I don't know anyone who does that, but I suppose it's common in the circles he runs in. Perhaps it's a sense of material and power envy from those on the Canadian right at America's greater overall success.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/.../12/4769094.php

Don't quote Mr. Coren. It may not be worth it. He plays all sides - religiously and politically...and he's a poor boy who will do and say just about anything to sell a book or get a booking. There is not one Canadian that envys the United States. If there is envy it is generated towards Canada by the United States. We are like the nice car that has been stored and only driven on Sunday...they lust for that car. It could be compared to the man who marries the woman who has a genetic predisposition to age quickly - that man looks out the window and longs for someone with less wrinkles and more lubricative moisture...can't believe I said that! Nawh - no one in Canada wants to be America. It would be like saying you want to be old with mental problems...now where the hell are my cigarettes? I could of sworn they were on the fridge.......personally if I could go back 30 years I would have gone state side - they are a push over down there.

[bush_cheney2004]

... There is not one Canadian that envys the United States. If there is envy it is generated towards Canada by the United States. .... Nawh - no one in Canada wants to be America....

True...those who do have already moved to America. The immigrants just pass through on their way to America.

[Oleg Bach]

True...those who do have already moved to America. The immigrants just pass through on their way to America.

I like Americans. To bad they did not know us better. Still we have great potential here and I am slowly getting to enjoy being on a train and seeing every race and culture crowded into one space. The thing to do now that we are stuck with the tail end of the multi-cultural experiment - it's here to stay and we had better refine our approach and make the best of it - as is said in revelations - the leaf if for the healing of the world - Canada will be the great doctor and peace maker internationally - we are now the light of the world where the Americans have had their day and are not the light stand..thanks and good nite my friend.

[Guest American Woman]

Anti-Americanism comes from the envy/jealousy that is so prevalent on the left. If the left is as tolerant as it says it is, then it should have no trouble tolerating the Americans you would think.

Actually, I find the most claims that Canadians are anti-American coming from the right. Even today, Michael Coren claimed that "Canadians pride themselves on dismissing the United States as reactionary and unsophisticated." I don't know anyone who does that, but I suppose it's common in the circles he runs in. Perhaps it's a sense of material and power envy from those on the Canadian right at America's greater overall success.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/.../12/4769094.php

In my experience, it's the Canadian left that is anti-American, so in that sense I agree with BubberMikey. I'm not saying I agree with his reasons, and it's not all of the left by any means, but what anti-American sentiment there is does seem to come from the left. It is kind of ironic how those who are so tolerant of anything anyone else does are so critical/intolerant of anything the U.S. does. On the other hand, I find the American-wannabees come from Canada's right-- they seem to admire the 'wealth and power.' And yes, Oleg, there are Canadians who do envy the U.S.

Edited January 13, 2008 by American Woman