Bill Clinton or George W. Bush?

[Carinthia]

Right on. BC will never admit the mighty U.S. has ever screwed up or apologized for anything. Hopefully his is only a minority opinion of how Americans feel.

True, must be some kind of pride thing.

[Guest American Woman]

Right on. BC will never admit the mighty U.S. has ever screwed up or apologized for anything. Hopefully his is only a minority opinion of how Americans feel.

His most definitely is a minority opinion. Most Americans realize the war was a mistake.

True, must be some kind of pride thing.

More like false pride.

[Carinthia]

His most definitely is a minority opinion. Most Americans realize the war was a mistake.

More like false pride.

Thank you! That's a relief. Actually, I post on an American forum. The focus there is not political but when politics does rear its head, most are Republican supporters and express huge disgust with Bush/Cheney.

[Guest American Woman]

I personally don't know anyone who voted for Bush who still supports him. It's like you said, they express huge disgust for him/Cheney/the administration. They're just as disgusted as those of us who didn't vote for him.

Edited December 9, 2007 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

I personally don't know anyone who voted for Bush who still supports him. It's like you said, they express huge disgust for him/Cheney/the administration. They're just as disgusted as those of us who didn't vote for him.

Of course you don't...too busy being "disgusted" while the American hegemon continues policies going back over 100 years. It has nothing to do with false pride or making mistakes, and everything to do with a superpower making choices. Shall Americans only support their elected leadership when her battles are won without losses? Why did a president and two PMs retain power after the invasion of Iraq?

If some Canadians are equally "disgusted" with the American administration, perhaps it serves as a distraction for their own domestic impotence in the face of steady action in Afghanistan.

Edited December 9, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

True, must be some kind of pride thing.

No, it's more like an in-your-face-you-can't do-anything-about-it-we've-been-doing-it-for-years-with-Canadian-complicity thing. Even Hillary Clinton voted for the smackdown.

[bush_cheney2004]

Right on. BC will never admit the mighty U.S. has ever screwed up or apologized for anything. Hopefully his is only a minority opinion of how Americans feel.

Wrong....most Americans aren't apologizing for dick....especially if it means apologizing for being Americans. Being a superpower means never having to say you're sorry.

[jbg]

Oh come on, we all know that the machines were strategically placed to compromise underprivileged African Americans and others from voting in 2000. The chad and dimple fiasco in Florida and the denying of voters in the larger states with feeble excuses etc.

The Democrats (and I remain proudly a Democrat) have their share of election skullduggery as well. JFK became President on the strength of dead Chicago voters. Hopefully, at least their votes were recorded as they would have voted if alive.

[Guest American Woman]

The Democrats (and I remain proudly a Democrat) [....]

And I remain highly amused.

Edited December 9, 2007 by American Woman

[Carinthia]

Of course you don't...too busy being "disgusted" while the American hegemon continues policies going back over 100 years. It has nothing to do with false pride or making mistakes, and everything to do with a superpower making choices. Shall Americans only support their elected leadership when her battles are won without losses? Why did a president and two PMs retain power after the invasion of Iraq?

If some Canadians are equally "disgusted" with the American administration, perhaps it serves as a distraction for their own domestic impotence in the face of steady action in Afghanistan.

Canadians went to Afganistan primarily on a peace keeping mission and to help ensure that the Taliban, who were taking women out to baseball fields in the back of pick up trucks and shooting them in the head amongst other horrors, did not regain their reign of terror. If Iraq had not been invaded on a pack of lies, then the job in Afganistan would probably have seen success, as well as Bin Laden may have been caught. Oh but excuse me, the Bin Laden's and the Bush families are "good friends" aren't they?

[jbg]

And I remain highly amused.

Amused by what exactly?

I am overwhelimingly on the Left side of the spectrum. That being said, the Democratic field of candidates is insufferably bad. Barak Hussein Osama Obama and Hilary Rodham Clinton are someone's idea of sick jokes as possible Presidents. The Democrats are making a huge mistake by abandoning the day-to-day concern of the common man in favor of such etherial, elite causes as "global warming" People who are now paying about $.80/litre CDN for gas in the US would not be amused to know that Kyoto would cost them another $0.25 per litre (just a raw estimate) for little gain to anyone.

[jbg]

If Iraq had not been invaded on a pack of lies, then the job in Afganistan would probably have seen success, as well as Bin Laden may have been caught. Oh but excuse me, the Bin Laden's and the Bush families are "good friends" aren't they?

I guess you don't get it. The West must, for its safety and survival, restore some version of colonial-style control over such rough neignborhoods as the Middle East and Asia. Independence has worked well for India, Israel, Singapore, South Korea and that about exhausts the post-WW II list.

Oh, I forgot de facto Kurdistan.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadians went to Afganistan primarily on a peace keeping mission and to help ensure that the Taliban, who were taking women out to baseball fields in the back of pick up trucks and shooting them in the head amongst other horrors, did not regain their reign of terror.

Oh, so that explains why a Canadian now has the world record for longest sniper shot.

If Iraq had not been invaded on a pack of lies, then the job in Afganistan would probably have seen success, as well as Bin Laden may have been caught. Oh but excuse me, the Bin Laden's and the Bush families are "good friends" aren't they?

Didn't make any difference...Afghanistan became a pain in the ass before Iraq was ever invaded.

[Carinthia]

..Afghanistan became a pain in the ass before Iraq was ever invaded.

Huh? That was my point. The job in Afganistan probably would have been completed if the invasion of Iraq had not drained the armed forces.

[bush_cheney2004]

Huh? That was my point. The job in Afganistan probably would have been completed if the invasion of Iraq had not drained the armed forces.

That's pure conjecture....the Americans still had far more forces and support deployed in theatre than NATO partners...still do. Canada didn't send all available forces to Afghanistan either.

Previously, President Clinton decided to only lob a few cruise missiles in Afghanistan, and that's why he is criticized to this day.

The job in Afghanistan will never be completed...the US has been in Germany, Japan and Korea for over 50 years.

Edited December 10, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Carinthia]

The job in Afghanistan will never be completed...the US has been in Germany, Japan and Korea for over 50 years.

Speaking of that, why are they there? They can build and store nuclear arms too and nobody else is allowed to. But as the superpower, I guess they know what's best for the rest of us.

[bush_cheney2004]

Speaking of that, why are they there? They can build and store nuclear arms too and nobody else is allowed to. But as the superpower, I guess they know what's best for the rest of us.

Because they wanted our money after being destroyed by war, but there ain't no free lunch. As an official member of the now defunct Pax Britannia, you already know the drill.

[Guest American Woman]

And I remain highly amused.

Amused by what exactly?

I am overwhelimingly on the Left side of the spectrum. That being said....

That being said, I'm still overwhelmingly amused.

Barak Hussein Osama Obama

Do you honestly not realize how stupid, not to mention overplayed, the "Osama Obama" thing is?? There aren't enough 's to convey just how stupid it is.

[jbg]

Speaking of that, why are they there? They can build and store nuclear arms too and nobody else is allowed to. But as the superpower, I guess they know what's best for the rest of us.

Because they wanted our money after being destroyed by war, but there ain't no free lunch. As an official member of the now defunct Pax Britannia, you already know the drill.

BC 2004 not a bad analysis. I think you hit closer by referring to "Pax Brittanica". Put simply, Korea is at risk, much the way Israel is, from hostile neighbors China and North Korea. In addition, the US needs to be able to project force in that area of the world to protect Taiwan, and to keep Chinese and Russian adventurism in check.

As to Japan and Germany, these are simply countries that cannot be trusted. Just as those countries require an effectively permanent US presence, so will the Islamic world. In my opinion, troops will never entirely leave Afghanistan, Iraq and/or Saudi Arabia. If anything, they'll wind up, albeit in more modest numbers, in many more such places in the Islamic world, Latin America and Africa.

[jbg]

Amused by what exactly?

I am overwhelimingly on the Left side of the spectrum. That being said....

That being said, I'm still overwhelmingly amused.

Amused by what? Care to explain?

Do you honestly not realize how stupid, not to mention overplayed, the "Osama Obama" thing is?? There aren't enough 's to convey just how stupid it is.

What about his middle name?

[bush_cheney2004]

BC 2004 not a bad analysis. I think you hit closer by referring to "Pax Brittanica". Put simply, Korea is at risk, much the way Israel is, from hostile neighbors China and North Korea. In addition, the US needs to be able to project force in that area of the world to protect Taiwan, and to keep Chinese and Russian adventurism in check.

Thanks...but it only echoes what we have already said before, regardless of the geography. America is the same as it ever was, and I do not understand why anyone would expect otherwise from the current administration, or the next. Some of the posts I just attribute to youth and naivete, but anyone with a working grasp of history may not agree with such policies, but certainly should know better.

As to Japan and Germany, these are simply countries that cannot be trusted. Just as those countries require an effectively permanent US presence, so will the Islamic world. In my opinion, troops will never entirely leave Afghanistan, Iraq and/or Saudi Arabia. If anything, they'll wind up, albeit in more modest numbers, in many more such places in the Islamic world, Latin America and Africa.

No doubt about that...the center of gravity has shifted...and it is not temporary. Like the Europeans who learned the hard way, better finish what you start, or the Americans will do it for you. The meter is still running.

Edited December 10, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[jbg]

No doubt about that...the center of gravity has shifted...and it is not temporary. Like the Europeans who learned the hard way, better finish what you start, or the Americans will do it for you. The meter is still running.

Actually what the Europeans learned the hard way was that if they don't keep their mitts off each other, the Americans will do it for them.

I had posted more, but in the interests of not straying further from the Clinton-Bush topic of this thread, I moved it here (link).

Edited December 10, 2007 by jbg

[gc1765]

Should Bush have slapped everyone's back and pretended that all was right with the world, that the WTC and Pentagon were only three dispensible buildings, and subordintated the terror issue to "other concerns"?

No, but he also shouldn't have pretended that Iraq had anything to do with the loss of those buildings.

[jbg]

No, but he also shouldn't have pretended that Iraq had anything to do with the loss of those buildings.

He didn't.

[gc1765]

He didn't.

What? Are you trying to say that Bush didn't try to link Iraq with al-qaeda/terrorism/9-11???