Ben Stein On Christmas

[ScottSA]

I only have this in text form, so I'll have to post it in its entirety. It's in an open email, with an appeal by Ben to pass it on, so there are no copyright issues:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a church, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards.

Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

Edited November 19, 2007 by ScottSA

[August1991]

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

This is profound?

It strikes me rather as rank superstition if it's not downright silly.

[luvacuppajoe]

Lord, how I hate these email chains.

Snopes tags this one as true in that Stein wrote it, only up until the paragraph beginning "In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh...."

Also, Dr. Spock's son did not commit suicide.

It's similar to how someone anonymously pens something remotely witty and it gets credited to George Carlin. Half of Carlin's material is news to him.

Stein's point is well take though (the part he actually wrote).

[Guest coot]

Can anyone come up with compelling statistics that societies that devoutly worshiped god had an easier time than secular societies. I think the opposite is true--secular societies have had a comparatively easy road.

[marcinmoka]

A while back, there was a study published stating that religious folk place greater emphasis on values (or at least the WORDS expressing them) such as compassion, honesty, etc.

As a result, posters on the G&M started reciting "told you so" and claiming that a distancing from faith will precipitate the fall of our nation, until someone else brought up an interesting point, that on a GLOBAL SCALE, the most secular nations (i.e North Western Europe, Canada, Australia and the U.S) were also the ones who who in PRACTICE valued education the most, were the least corrupt, and in general, had the most freedoms, as opposed to the obvious quasi theocratic states such as Saudi Arabia (despite considerable wealth). Granted, you cannot compare Saudi Arabia with our own society, but even than, I would prefer doing business in relatively secular Germany or the U.K than corrupt catholic Italy or Poland.

And to pre-empt those who will try to radicalize my position, religion can be a good thing, and most often is. But I find it to be most beneficial on the individual level.

[GostHacked]

A while back, there was a study published stating that religious folk place greater emphasis on values (or at least the WORDS expressing them) such as compassion, honesty, etc.

--

And to pre-empt those who will try to radicalize my position, religion can be a good thing, and most often is. But I find it to be most beneficial on the individual level.

I consider myself an agnostig/athiest, but I still have good morals and values. It is the upbringing that has more to do with this than any religion. My parents never taught religion, never forced me to 'Sunday School'. Never was forced to go to church for anything. I have pushed 'god' out of my life because, I cannot simply put faith into a huge unknown. I have faith in the proven (for the most part) and little faith in religion or a god. Again, my parents tought me imp[ortant things I need to know in life, I don't steal, I don't kill, I have respect for my fellow man. I help out when it is needed. Live by those simple guidlines, and religion will have become a thing of the past. You will put the faith in yourself instead of a god, and to me, this is where faith should lie in.

Religion is a very personal thing. My Oma (who passed away a couple weeks ago) was a very religious person, but you would not know it by talking to her. She was not impressed with organized religion and how it was presented/organized. She took god into her life, but on her own terms and conditions. She worshiped god in her own way. Was it wrong because she never went to church? Was is wrong because she did not follow the religious herd? No. She made her faith very personal. That kind of thing just cannot or does not get shared with anyone. So people should take religion and god into their homes/lives on their own terms. Build your own personal relationship with god, no one else is going to do that for you. No one.

What pisses most of us off is the total commercialization of certain holidays. Christmas is one of the high times for our economy. Buy, buy ,buy!! We put more value in materialistic items than the whole ideology behind the religious holidy event. Sharing and giving comes in many forms. Presents are just ONE small aspect of this. My parents always asked me 'what do you want for christmas'. My usual reply was, 'not sure, I really have everytyhing I need' I am not a greedy or selfish person. When mass media and corporations throw the idea of buy buy buy all the time in your face, and you buy into it, you are loosing a part of your faith by doing so. You are letting those who want to make money, influence you on your views of what a that holiday should mean. So you are letting others force god and religion out of your lives. Following another herd.

So Christmas to me is a happy time, being with family and friends, having some drinks and some great food. Being together and interacting with each other. Ditch the electronic distractions for awhile and talk to each other. Face to face, in person. Your family is the most important thing in your life. Treat it as such!

[Peter F]

Ben Stein:

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

By that logic terrorists are the servants of God and America is working against the will of God.

[marcinmoka]

By that logic terrorists are the servants of God and America is working against the will of God.

Which God?

The concepts of 'logic' and 'jihad' should never (supportingly) be used in the same sentence.

Heck, I believe no concept of pertaining to divinity should be used as such, but that is just my own humble opinion.

[Topaz]

There were about 20 people in our group and we were just talking about anything, someone brought up this subject and said, you how people kill in the name of God or did this in the Name of God, how do you think people would react if someone could prove there was no God, at least the way we imagine and are taught about Him?? Of course, everyone was shocked at the thought, but it did make one wonder, even a small possibility of that and just to talk about how this could happen if there was a God. As they say, politics and religion can be a no-no! I don't think the human race would survive if this could be proven because God gives a reason to live, someone to pray to and given us confidence and reason to go on when we are down.

[Guest coot]

I don't think the human race would survive if this could be proven because God gives a reason to live, someone to pray to and given us confidence and reason to go on when we are down.

How do you think atheists keep from killing themselves? If I believed in God, I think I would be enraged at it for its obvious indifference to all the needless suffering in the world. I don't find the idea very comforting at all that something would deliberately create an environment like this.

[jawapunk]

In the same vein, I am sick of religion being pushed in my face and down my throat. I do not believe America is atheist. The number and statistics would suggest quite the contrary. I don't think atheists are pushing their platform, just to keep religion out of schools and out of the justice system and hopefully out of the government because, honestly it just doesn't belong there. If you believe it does, you have every right to place your child in a religious school or home school them as you please.

It is true that at some basic level our system of laws has roots in the Bible, but it also has roots in pagan Roman law, the code of Hannurabi and Napoleonic code. Governments should free themselves from god because, as has been seen in medieval europe where the Catholic church exerted enormous pressure over kings examples from Iran and and some other middle eastern countries today, theocratic rule does not work.

I don't think you blame the lack of religion on the world going to hell. If you read texts from throughout history, people have believed the world has been going to hell for two thousand years. My question is, how long does it take?

[jefferiah]

In the same vein, I am sick of religion being pushed in my face and down my throat.

Oh. And who is pushing religion down your throat?

[jawapunk]

Well, Christianity is an agressive religion. Spreading the word of god and jesus is an important facet. I have been approached many times by this. I don't blow up at people but I dislike when a polite refusal is not taken. I also dislike being told I will be going to hell. I believe that is up to God to decide and not some schmuck knocking doors.

[capricorn]

Well, Christianity is an agressive religion. Spreading the word of god and jesus is an important facet. I have been approached many times by this. I don't blow up at people but I dislike when a polite refusal is not taken. I also dislike being told I will be going to hell. I believe that is up to God to decide and not some schmuck knocking doors.

The only religious group that ever knocked on my door were Jehovah's witnesses.

[marcinmoka]

And who is pushing religion down your throat?

Bon apetit!

I do not believe America is atheist. The number and statistics would suggest quite the contrary

Granted, numbers can be easily ramped up to convey an agenda, I doubt anyone would disagree with that.

As per Americans; I've met countless Americans, and yet apart from some crackhead at a Greyhound station in Detroit yelling at me to repent/asking for change, I am yet to meet any overt 'in your face' Christian Pentacostals/Baptists. Granted, on a drive through Ohio or Pennsylvania, the barn yard inscriptions of "Jesus Saves" start to loose their novelty quite quickly, but quickly fade to memory when one encounters a New Yorker or two.

Whether they are atheists? Who cares. Let them practice their faith if they do it in peace. The real issue is whether they are secular, and I think on that level, they fare quite well.

[jawapunk]

Well there are more than that. Most of this kind of activity occurs outside the Western world though. Historically the Jesuits were very involved but there are numerous churches involved in missionary work especially in Asia and Africa. They are both aid organizations aswell as vehicles to spread the word of Christ. I grew up in South East Asia. I have been approached by a few different groups.

[jefferiah]

Well, Christianity is an agressive religion. Spreading the word of god and jesus is an important facet. I have been approached many times by this.

Oh there there. I am sure you will survive the horror.

[jawapunk]

Trying to antagonize? Let's not be a litle troll.

[Higgly]

So Ben. Has anybody given you grief for your Chanukah candles?

Curious minds want to know.

[kengs333]

Can anyone come up with compelling statistics that societies that devoutly worshiped god had an easier time than secular societies. I think the opposite is true--secular societies have had a comparatively easy road.

This may not directly answer your question, but I've always found it interesting how there were some really monstrous volcanic explosions in the Mediterranean region in the pre-Christian times but none since (to my knowledge). Turkey continues to get rocked by massive, deadly earthquakes, the rest of Europe does not. The modern industrialized world, technological advancement essentially originates in protestant north central Europe and England.

[Oleg Bach]

I only have this in text form, so I'll have to post it in its entirety. It's in an open email, with an appeal by Ben to pass it on, so there are no copyright issues:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a church, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards.

Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

Smart man - nothing more irritating than those who spell God - Gawd. This letter is simplistic as faith should be. My only comment is that God or common universal goodness is a simple concept. To remove a Chirtmas tree from the court house lobby in order not to offend always irritated me - I being a bit conspiratorial believe there was one real reason for the crushing and curing of Christmas last year by the Judge in Toronto. It was a control issue - Christmas as the writer writes is a happy time - it makes all happy and fills the city with need joy that gives power to the people - Christian and Jew and Muslim..and that grand relgion atheism. The reason I believe a tree would be removed is because it generates happiness and happy people are difficult to manage and control. Christmas and the original statement was that we own our selves and are wards of God - and that the state is secondary and had better be sweet or we will fire all the insecure and controling bureacrats....Merry Christmas everyone - may as well get the greeting in early!

[jbg]

I'm with Ben Stein on this, for slightly different reasons. Christmas is an American/Canadian holiday. I am Jewish, and recognize the Christian underpinnings of both great lands, and the liberty they offer. One does not have to believe in G-d (though I do) to recognize that Christmas is also a season of hope, of beginning of increasing daylight, and thus of youth and rebirth.

Happy holidays.

[Drea]

This may not directly answer your question, but I've always found it interesting how there were some really monstrous volcanic explosions in the Mediterranean region in the pre-Christian times but none since (to my knowledge).

Turkey continues to get rocked by massive, deadly earthquakes, the rest of Europe does not. The modern industrialized world, technological advancement essentially originates in protestant north central Europe and England.

Yuppers... god is watching our backs! That's why the trade centres fell... that's why Katrina hit... that's why Krakatoa exploded... And what about Mexico city? They are chock full of devout catholics, yet your dastardly god saw fit to hit even them with an earthquake. What gives? God only likes whites that speak english or what? What a bas**rd he is! I would hate him if he were real.

Technological advancement....? Western civilization was killing each other for some "heretical" reason or another... while the rest of the world had actual CIVILizations.

This is, however, a really really good example of the logical "scientific" deduction of the religious...

[Drea]

I'm with Ben Stein on this, for slightly different reasons. Christmas is an American/Canadian holiday. I am Jewish, and recognize the Christian underpinnings of both great lands, and the liberty they offer. One does not have to believe in G-d (though I do) to recognize that Christmas is also a season of hope, of beginning of increasing daylight, and thus of youth and rebirth.

Happy holidays.

No it's not. Christmas began as a pagan celebration many years before people came to North America.

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

Christmas

Christians hijacked Winter solstice. Same with Spring solstice. They just "plunked" their guy's birthday/deathday in there so that it would be easier for pagans to "follow".

[White Doors]

No it's not. Christmas began as a pagan celebration many years before people came to North America.

Christmas

Christians hijacked Winter solstice. Same with Spring solstice. They just "plunked" their guy's birthday/deathday in there so that it would be easier for pagans to "follow".

So what? How does that change anything?

You think the info you provided is something new?

get with it Drea, it's not a big deal. It's still Christmas and it's a part of our culture because of the Christian version, not the pagan one.

HoHoHoHoHoHo!!