Conservative attack ads

jdobbin · November 8, 2007

Ah, but time will tell the tale. After they've been around 40% for 3 more months, will you go back another 3 months in your poll data to ensure you can keep them at 36%? Enquiring minds already know.

In over two years, the polls on average have been 36%. I haven't altered one poll number to get that result. It is what it is.

As for your speculation of what the polls will be in the next three months, I have no idea. As you say, we'll see when we see.

capricorn · November 8, 2007

Are you using cherry picking as a substitute for dithering?

I just assumed this thread is a free for all. Couldn't help it. :lol:

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

During an election all gloves are off. I understand that. But this is not an election campaign. When have the Liberals ever ran a negative ad outside of an upcoming election?

Have they ever had the money to do so? I can't think of a point in history a significant period of time away from an election where the Liberals have had the money to do so. If you know of a time please tell us.

The Liberals picked election dates at their whim. If Harper followed the Liberals ethical conduct we'd be in an election at the moment and your point would be moot.

The Conservatives have fixed an election date. That is the date the election will be held on unless Dion grows some cojones and forces an early election.

With the timing out of their hands the Conservatives are spending their money wisely.

capricorn · November 8, 2007

With the timing out of their hands the Conservatives are spending their money wisely.

And the donations keep rolling in...from the grassroots no less.

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

And the donations keep rolling in...from the grassroots no less.

Yup. I got a letter last week.

Jean Chretien had to know have an idea the new fundraising laws would hurt the Liberals to the advantage of the Conservatives.

Did he not know how much those laws would handicap the Liberals?

Or did he really want to screw Paul 'I was a great finance minister but a pretty mediocre Prime Minister' Martin that badly?

sharkman · November 8, 2007

Psst, you better keep that tidbit of info about getting a letter from a Tory away from dobbin. This could make his week, another Tories keeping lists thread. :lol:

capricorn · November 8, 2007

Yup. I got a letter last week.

What a coincidence, so did I. I guess I can muster another donation before year end.

Jean Chretien had to know have an idea the new fundraising laws would hurt the Liberals to the advantage of the Conservatives.
Did he not know how much those laws would handicap the Liberals?

Could be. In any event, the desired result was achieved. I guess Chretien underestimated the grassroots. You know, the little people. Those who put their money where their mouth is.

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

What a coincidence, so did I. I guess I can muster another donation before year end.
Could be. In any event, the desired result was achieved. I guess Chretien underestimated the grassroots. You know, the little people. Those who put their money where their mouth is.

All the better for the Conservatives.

Gotta have money rolling in to pay for the next round of definition ads. :lol:

Smallc · November 8, 2007

All the better for the Conservatives.
Gotta have money rolling in to pay for the next round of definition ads.

They said on CBC the other day that for every dollar that the liberals collect, the conservatives collect 4. :lol:

Edited November 8, 2007 by Smallc

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

They said on CBC the other day that for every dollar that the liberals collect, the conservatives collect 4.

I guess all the children of all the drug company executives quit donating after the Joe Volpe fiasco. :lol:

fellowtraveller · November 8, 2007

The Liberals are so broke they cannot even fund any Quebec ad agencies lately.

geoffrey · November 8, 2007

I guess all the children of all the drug company executives quit donating after the Joe Volpe fiasco.

I'm pretty sure they were dead people that were donating to Joe. Perhaps children too.

The Liberals should know better, dead people aren't great long term supporters. On the other hand, if you've got 5 year olds giving thousands, your on the right track. What else does a 5 year old have to spend their $5k in disposable income on! Duh.

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

I'm pretty sure they were dead people that were donating to Joe. Perhaps children too.

There were definitely 9 year olds and 11 year olds donating the $5,400 maximum to Volpe.

It was dead poeple that Volpe was signing up as members to vote for his delegates in Quebec meetings.

I understand, with politicians as slimy as Joe Volpe in the Liberal caucus it's tough to keep track of all their unethical behaviour. :lol:

Shakeyhands · November 8, 2007

can anyone join in this circle jerk?

I hope they keep up with the ads. I really do. I mean we see the type of people they play to...

Edited November 8, 2007 by Shakeyhands

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

can anyone join in this circle jerk?
I hope they keep up with the ads. I really do. I mean we see the type of people they play to...

What's wrong shakey?

Of course, you are more than welcome to join in.

Is 'type of people' some code for the condescension of the left to anyone who disagrees with them? Please elucidate on that one.

old_bold&cold · November 8, 2007

I actually do not think that these ads were a good thing, but I do see where Harper has decided to maybe shine an light on the Dion and the Liberal party, as right now these guys are worse then the Keystone Cops. But the fatc that the public is not in election mode they are really not looking and that is maybe why the adds have come about. I personally would have wished that Harper just take the high road in all of this, but you got to give the man credit for not making much more of this, as he could really do a lot of damage if he were determined to do so. For now he is satisfied with making public what everyone probably already know and that is that Dion is pathetic as a party leader. If the liberals have him still there when an election writ is dropped, it will not be a pretty sight.

The ads are in my own view, a little over the top, but after a weks or twos play they should stop and let the polls tell them if they were successful or not.

M.Dancer · November 8, 2007

As some one who traditionally votes liberal I am very much in favour of these ads. They only reinforce the point that Dion is an Albatross around the neck of the liberal party....

Fortunata · November 8, 2007

I personally would have wished that Harper just take the high road in all of this,

Steve never takes the high road, haven't you noticed?

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

I actually do not think that these ads were a good thing, but I do see where Harper has decided to maybe shine an light on the Dion and the Liberal party, as right now these guys are worse then the Keystone Cops.

I think the ads were a good idea and here is why.

The Liberals hammered Harper as scary, scary, scary for a long, long time.

They did it so much, so consistently and for so long it became conventional wisdom. Maclean's magazine even ran a cover photo with Stephen Harpe that said "How Scary?"

That is all the Conservatives are doing here. Keep hammering on Dion's weak leadership and questionable judgment. Do it to the point where it becomes conventional wisdom.

This ad campaign appears to be part of a long-term strategy. Immediate poll results aren't the goal. It's defining Dion in the eyes of the public on terms the Conservatives are happy with.

Below is a prime example of the never-ending attacks from opponents of Stephen Harper. Far less thought out or intelligent than the content of the most recent contrast ads.

Would it be considered irony to take the low road in order to criticize someone for never taking the high road? :lol:

Steve never takes the high road, haven't you noticed?

Edited November 8, 2007 by Michael Bluth

Fortunata · November 8, 2007

Below is a prime example of the never-ending attacks from opponents of Stephen Harper. Far less thought out or intelligent than the content of the most recent contrast ads.
Would it be considered irony to take the low road in order to criticize someone for never taking the high road?

I don't have to take a high road. I'm not the Prime Minister. This is a discussion forum and I am right - Steve never takes the high road. He has no class.

fellowtraveller · November 8, 2007

That is all the Conservatives are doing here. Keep hammering on Dion's weak leadership and questionable judgment. Do it to the point where it becomes conventional wisdom.
This ad campaign appears to be part of a long-term strategy. Immediate poll results aren't the goal. It's defining Dion in the eyes of the public on terms the Conservatives are happy with.

I agree that they are keeping Dions weakness front and center, but not that it is a long term strategy, Why bother when Dion is clearly not personally in any long term situation.

The ads are part of a short term goal: force an election, now. The only reason that the Liberals are not responding in kind is quite simple: they have no money, or more accurately no cash on hand. The Cons do, plenty of it with plenty more rolling in. Of course, they are strictly limited in what they spend after the writ is dropped - but they can do what they please beforehand.

Smallc · November 8, 2007

As some one who traditionally votes liberal I am very much in favour of these ads. They only reinforce the point that Dion is an Albatross around the neck of the liberal party....

I agree with you 100%. There are only 3 leaders is Ottawa. One wants to separate the country, 1 I think of as a nut job, and I am forced to support the other.

Shakeyhands · November 8, 2007

What's wrong shakey?
Of course, you are more than welcome to join in.

Is 'type of people' some code for the condescension of the left to anyone who disagrees with them? Please elucidate on that one.

Its not condescension, its fact. Anyone who buys this type of ad is of lower intelligence, but I guess if it suits your needs.... have at it.

Michael Bluth · November 8, 2007

Its not condescension, its fact. Anyone who buys this type of ad is of lower intelligence, but I guess if it suits your needs.... have at it.

Does you 'fact' apply to those "Soldiers in our streets. With guns. We aren't making this up." ads from the last election?

Is lack of intelligence on the part of the electorate the reason the Liberals got booted from office in the last election?

The Cons do, plenty of it with plenty more rolling in. Of course, they are strictly limited in what they spend after the writ is dropped - but they can do what they please beforehand.

That's why I don't see these ads as a short-term strategy. The Conservatives don't want a winter election because they want to spend a lot more cash pre-writ. A late spring election would suit them best.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Michael Bluth

fellowtraveller · November 8, 2007

That's why I don't see these ads as a short-term strategy. The Conservatives don't want a winter election because they want to spend a lot more cash pre-writ. A late spring election would suit them best.

Maybe. I think it is more likely they will run ads up to and through an election, which I interpret as short term.

They want an election ASAP, the Cons have much to gain by getting to the polls right now. Waiting for spring is filled with risk for them, and allows a reeling Liberal party some time to somehow get their act together.

A real possibility is that Dion may abruptly resign, which means the Cons will be obliged to wait, and lose huge momentum, and face a leader that will be far more formidable than Dion. (which means nearly anybody. except Joe Volpe).

They want an election now, and are engineering just that in my opinion. The only change lately is that Layton is now actively involved in making that happen.