Afghan National Army

[myata]

Well one thing I'm pretty certain of. We should not be fighting in the other people's wars. It never works - for us, nor for them.

[Army Guy]

Much like the boar war, WWI ,WWII, or korea, gulf wars.

Or would you agree that sometimes a nation has to stand up for what it believes in, protects what it considers important, and could we not extend that to say "stand up for others that are also in need" and can not defend themselfs.

[myata]

Much like the boar war, WWI ,WWII, or korea, gulf wars.

Much like the boer war, agreed. WWI - yes and no, but mostly, yes. Not really like WWII, in which a deadly regime invaded and subdued half of a continent. Don't know much about Korea, so won't comment. Not like the first gulf war, in which the regime was initiator of aggression, and the country was never occupied. Much like the Iraq war, too.

Or would you agree that sometimes a nation has to stand up for what it believes in, protects what it considers important, and could we not extend that to say "stand up for others that are also in need" and can not defend themselfs.

Stand up - on somebody else's soil? Sure, we could extend it to whatever we like, just like others before us. Terminology does not change the facts. We are on their soil, we're supporting one side that better suits our interests. It's been tried so many times over before, and almost never worked, in the long run.

Instead of trying to get Afghans to like the government that we have installed and supported, we should have let them come up with the one that can govern, and then deal with it on very simple and clear terms: we'll help if you ask, we won't interfere if you don't, and we'll respond in force if you threaten.

It could have happened immediately after the fall of the previous regime. Except the US wanted democratic domino effect in the Middle East. So here we go - as you said - in our new Boer war. This time, building a democracy where it never existed before.

[White Doors]

Stand up - on somebody else's soil? Sure, we could extend it to whatever we like, just like others before us. Terminology does not change the facts. We are on their soil, we're supporting one side that better suits our interests. It's been tried so many times over before, and almost never worked, in the long run.

Sounds like WW2 to me army guy...

[Army Guy]

I'm confused did you not say:

Well one thing I'm pretty certain of. We should not be fighting in the other people's wars. It never works - for us, nor for them.

To which i replied:

Much like the Boer war, WWI ,WWII, or korea, gulf wars

These wars were not ours, Canada in no way was threatened in any way. And yet each one of them Canada was involved because we as a nation decided it was the right thing to do at the time.....and each were sucessful in thier own rights. but in your quote you state that it never works....where in fact history has proven you wrong.

Instead of trying to get Afghans to like the government that we have installed and supported, we should have let them come up with the one that can govern, and then deal with it on very simple and clear terms

:

Last time i checked the current Afgan government was freely elected, by the people of Afgan, not by the US or NATO...

we'll help if you ask, we won't interfere if you don't, and we'll respond in force if you threaten

They did ask, and we are responding with force.....

[myata]

These wars were not ours, Canada in no way was threatened in any way.....and each were sucessful in thier own rights.

With the exception of WWII, which was a clear threat for the whole democratic world,

I'd question the meaning of "success" in these wars, both for Canada, and people on whose soil they were fought.

You're right though, I should have made and do make one exception, when an innocent is being attacked without provocation and we help them to defend themselves against an external aggression. This clearly does not "extend" to the cases of civil conflict within a country.

Last time i checked the current Afgan government was freely elected, by the people of Afgan, not by the US or NATO...

What's the meaning of free elections for people who never had free elections? And with thousands of foreign troops in the country. In any case, it's beyond the point. Where freely or not, we should not be fighting in any internal conflicts, period.

[Army Guy]

With the exception of WWII, which was a clear threat for the whole democratic world,

I'd question the meaning of "success" in these wars, both for Canada, and people on whose soil they were fought.

Well when you boil them all down, all of them where to stop aggresion from an unfriendly niebour. As for thier sucess , that would depend on how you describe sucess and what price your willing to pay for it. would life be better under germanys rule, then later Nazi rule...or perhaps living under north Korea's dictatorship...or under Sadam's rule...

Do we turn a blind eye every time someone wants to expand thier holdings via the use of arms...

[myata]

Well when you boil them all down, all of them where to stop aggresion from an unfriendly niebour.

Boer war: purely colonial matter, Canada has nothing do with, other than serving the queen.

WWI: a petty conflict of a bunch of crazy monarchs which translated into a major bloodshed in which millons lost lives. No winners.

I already made exeption for WWII, which was a legitimate defense against deadly and unprovoked aggression.

Won't comment on Korean war, its a complicated matter of which I don't know enough

First gulf war: legitimate defense against unprovoked aggression, however it did not cause us to start building democracy in Iraq.

Second gulf war, aka Iraq war: also unprovoked aggression, but this time on the coalition part.

Of course we can play with words always painting us as the good side, there would be nothing new in that.

Do we turn a blind eye every time someone wants to expand thier holdings via the use of arms...

If we play sheriffs of the world, we'll probably end up in a mess, as others before us. We can help when we believe it's the right thing to do, but draw a line at taking direct part in internal conflicts of other people. It almost never works as intended.

[old_bold&cold]

Myata you are only making more amd more people disagree with you, because you keep saying things that are not true. I gave up trying to explain to you long ago. I only hope that you one day choose to live our country as your view of us is not something I would want to live among. I think you should go to Switzerland and do your draft time and be reqiuired to always have a rifle and bullets in your place of residence at all times. The Swiss are very friendly people, but they also have a very well equipped army and also very person of age is considered a swiss soldier in times of trouble.

Maybe if you go to see where and exactly what has really gone on in the past wars, you would feel a lot different today about knowing when to stand up and fight.