Melanie_ Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Well, since the whole scenario is fictional, I have no problem with adding my own twist. But Betsy, I don't think you are paying attention. Nowhere have I stated that I support the Muslim students' demands. As a matter of fact, I have stated several times that I think they are wrong. Just as I think the Christian doctor is wrong. This isn't an either/or choice here - they can both be wrong, independent of each other. You are arguing in terms of degree, stating the Christian doctor's wrongness is not as bad as the Muslim students' wrongness. No matter what, though, they are both wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drea Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 More ammo for my case. My case that ALL religion should be kept in the home or the church. No one, absolutely NO ONE has the right to deny medical service based on a religious notion. If a doctor feels a procedure is against his/her religion and he/she does not provide the service, he/she should immediately lose their liscence to practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) Well, since the whole scenario is fictional, I have no problem with adding my own twist. I thank you for at least humoring me. The scenario I gave you may be indeed far out, however the shortage of doctors we're having right now could put us in an unpleasant situation in the near future. The medical field, like governmental bodies, seemed to have attracted those who plot against us. Remember the doctors terrorists who - thank goodness - botched up the job? But Betsy, I don't think you are paying attention. Nowhere have I stated that I support the Muslim students' demands. As a matter of fact, I have stated several times that I think they are wrong. Just as I think the Christian doctor is wrong. This isn't an either/or choice here - they can both be wrong, independent of each other. You are arguing in terms of degree, stating the Christian doctor's wrongness is not as bad as the Muslim students' wrongness. No matter what, though, they are both wrong. Hey, you are the one who brought in the Christian-doctor-morning-pills-controversy....comparing my stance with that morning pill debate to this situation. Whether you support the Muslim students or not is not the point there at all. This is about your reference to my stance on the other issue. I gave a direct reply to your specific comment, and point out that the two are not comparable at all. And not only did I correct you....but I also explained clearly why. Edited October 24, 2007 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) More ammo for my case. My case that ALL religion should be kept in the home or the church. No one, absolutely NO ONE has the right to deny medical service based on a religious notion. If a doctor feels a procedure is against his/her religion and he/she does not provide the service, he/she should immediately lose their liscence to practice. But we're not talking about doctors! We are talking about STUDENTS who refuse to follow our standards and refuse to complete their training. In my view, these people should not be doctors at all! Clearly they lack the simplest yet most meaningful requirement for the job. Perhaps they'd demand to change the Doctor's Oath too! Like being able to choose whose lives they're willing to save.... Edited October 24, 2007 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drea Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) But we're not talking about doctors!We are talking about STUDENTS who refuse to follow our standards and refuse to complete their training. In my view, these people should not be doctors at all! Clearly they lack the simplest yet most meaningful requirement for the job. Perhaps they'd demand to change the Doctor's Oath too! Like being able to choose whose lives they're willing to save.... Ok, if a student refuses then they should not graduate. I agree Betsy, if a doctor refuses to perform a procedure (or a student refuses to learn a procedure) they should not be/become a doctor. Regardless of what religion the bias is from. So you would then agree that a muslim doctor MUST perform pap tests (for example) and a christian doctor MUST prescribe birth control pills (for example) -- REGARDLESS of their respective religions' stance on the issue? Edited October 24, 2007 by Drea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) Ok, if a student refuses then they should not graduate.I agree Betsy, if a doctor refuses to perform a procedure (or a student refuses to learn a procedure) they should not be/become a doctor. Regardless of what religion the bias is from. So you would then agree that a muslim doctor MUST perform pap tests (for example) and a christian doctor MUST prescribe birth control pills (for example) -- REGARDLESS of their respective religions' stance on the issue? I know that this has something to do about their religious beliefs. But before I give my answer, and just for clarity, please explain clearly: What is the specific reason why the Muslim doctor would refuse giving a pap test? Wait! I just re-read your whole post and since both are already doctors... I must say....the Muslim doctor has the same right as that of the Christian doctor that was given to them....thereby, the Muslim's religious belief should be respected. The woman should be referred to somebody who is willing to give a pap test. This issue is not a matter of life and death. If I'm not mistaken, this issue is being addressed. That there is also a law that requires the patient be referred to someone who can. Please refer to the old thread regarding the morning-pill incident. Since both are licensed doctors, I am sure that both these doctors had complied with all the necessary requirements in order to become licensed. So if ever there is a dire need, or if ever the Muslim or Christian doctor is forced to do a pap test or prescribe medicines....we know that he is fully qualified to do so. What I don't agree with is for STUDENTS to "pick and choose or refuse" to comply with the full requirements. And I had already explained in this thread as to why. Refer to my post #34. Edited October 25, 2007 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Not to worry - they will graduate, leave for their home world and then return here at the top of the immigration ladder - as Canadian trained doctors.We will reap what we sow. Oh heck, kick them out. Oh wait - that would not be very Canadian of us. Might as well lower the standard and then let those folks return to Canada - or better let them stay - after all we are still short a couple of doctors - even if they missed a few classes they do have a Canadian medical degree. Too funny. Only in Canada. Borg Sadly the bleeding hearts in Canada would love to have them, lack of proper training wouldn't bother them in the least. More ammo for my case. My case that ALL religion should be kept in the home or the church. No one, absolutely NO ONE has the right to deny medical service based on a religious notion. If a doctor feels a procedure is against his/her religion and he/she does not provide the service, he/she should immediately lose their liscence to practice. I agree Drea, they should lose their license. Medicine is about healing or aiding the ill, leave your damn faith at the front door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 The reason most notable is simply the fact that the Christian Doctors refusing to give morning pills are doing so in the belief that they are violating their oath of saving lives. Whether you agree or not with their belief and whether they're wrong or not, the fact remains that their focus remains on saving lives! If a doctor is refusing to prescribe something purely because of his own philosophy, not for medical or legal reasons, he should put that in writing and the decision should then be up to the patient. A doctors job is not to impose their personal morality on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 A doctors job is not to impose their personal morality on others. Exactly! I cant believe some of the garbage I've read in this thread so far. Let them skip some topics, what harm is there in that? Nonsense, sheer utter nonsense! Hey! here's an idea! why don't we just let everyone start to pick and choose what they want to learn and don't want to learn in order to obtain a degree, or any other form of credentials for that matter. If thats the case I think I'll go jump on a trampoline for a few hours and call myself an Astronaut. This also raises the question of the so called qualifications of Muslim doctors trained in their home countries. Are they actually properly trained, or do they skip certain subjects because of personal ideology? I do know that last time I took a cab in Calgary the driver was telling me he was a fully qualified engineer. I personally doubted his word on this since when I paid him he had to try three times to make correct change, doesn't seem to indicate comprehensive training if you ask me. So, do we just take these peoples word as to their qualifications, or do we actually verify competence in their claimed fields? I go for verify myself, but thats just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 It seems that some people here think it is OK for Christian doctors to refuse a woman treatment because of their beliefs, but are up in arms about Muslim medical students making similar choices. Can't deny them certain subtlety: you have to be fully qualified no matter the believes, but be able to refurse requested help based on the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Phone).thumb.jpg.165c8315c6251d31b87efa29fe65361b.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.