Technocrat

It always scares me when stuff like this happens. Soft targets have very little protection. I live close to synagogues and a large Jewish community campus. Everyone is in danger from a determined attacker. I'm really surprised at the lack of response on this particular thread. I can't help but wonder what the response would be if it had been a crazy Jew who stepped into a building of Arabs and opened fire. At any rate, once again it was interesting to see the true colours of the media who at first were super conservative(imagine!) cautious about reporting whether this nutbar was a Muslim who hated Jews, when his announcement upon entering the building for all to hear removed any doubt. Except for said media. The reason why there is not a huge response to this thread is that not alot of people view it compared to say... the federal politics forum. It makes sense that the media held out to make sure they got their facts straight. This is definitely not the kind of story you want to screw up. That said... it saddens me when blind hate on both sides destroys the lives of the innocent.

Good post Rovik Bingo. Take a step back and you soon realize that both sides behaviour is unacceptable. Both are at fault for the violence and both are to blame for the death of civillians. It takes a coward to hide amognst civillians but that doens't mean Isreal has the right to bomb the civillians anyway. Diplomacy is the only way this conflict will end in any lasting and meaningful way. Side note: How many ordinary Iranians are looking at what Isreal is doing to Lebanon and thinking SHIT... We definitely need nukes now. I don't blame Iran for not wanting to stop developing its nuke technologies. So much for the world becomming a safer place... another failure in the 'global war on terror'.

Really... i seriously doubt that it would take most of the day to relay that message. If intel moves that slowly in the IDF i have serious doubts in their ability to do any lasting damage to Hez.

Its amazing how many "accidental precision bombings" occur. Chinese Embassy - Bombed by nato or the US) <-you can correct me on this one Al Jazeera TV station - Bombed by US AFTER Al Jazeera contacted USAF giving them exact GPS coordinates of their building Anyone else find this latest episode more then just a little odd? Annan is justifiably pissed at Isreal, How many phone calls does it take to stop the IDF from bombing a neutral party? Apparently 10 times is just not enough... well... its enough to get a bomb dropped on your head...

Long Live Monty Python Pocket Rocket... that poem gave me a good chuckle... thanks

Is that a new definition of welfare queen? (Sorry, I just couldn't walk away from that one.) August... you just made my day.... so horribly wrong... yet funny leader circle... WOW... just WOW... with that statement you wrote is unbeleivably rediculous. I will now ignore all posts you write as they are clearly a waste of time to read. In fact i think it says alot about the degeneration of the discourse here on the forums. Which is sad. I used to like reading the discussions here, unfortunately they have become well... a little silly as of late. In an appeal to everyone here can we please please try to keep our discussions a little more civil? If i wanted to engage in political wanking i would watch fox news or Lou Dobbs.

I couldn't agree more about simplifying the tax system. I now work in corporate sales and travel 4 days a week. My taxes are insanely complicated. Anything to make the tax code less complicated is a step in the right direction.

Hi betsy, That is great news. The Kyoto Accord was designed under the direction of Maurice Strong. I recently read an interview with him done by the Western Standard and can only conclude from what he says that his policies and directives would be very harmful to humanity. If you despise humanity I suppose you would support him and the Kyoto Accord. Seems like Harper has something on the ball. I guess i despise humanity. What a silly comment. I agree that global warming might not be caused by us. However there is a good chance that our actions are contributing to climate change. Wouldn't it make sense to err on the side of caution, and try something early, rather then wait and twiddle our thumbs.

Kyoto and Afganistan have illustrated something funny as of late in Canadian Politics. CPC arguing that Canada must honor its international commitments to Nato and stay in Afganistan for 2 more years. Apparently our definition of 'international commitment' is pretty fluid. Kyoto is an international commitment and yet it is being tossed aside for... nothing.... great plan. I spoke with my brother yesterday, environment canada had everything ready to go for Kyoto they were just waiting for the green light to impliment. Now all of the planning and programs that were ready to start reducing emmissions were scrapped, save for the largest industrial emmitters. Personally I think that abandoning Kyoto is a shortsighted move. Its really screwed Canada's credibility the next time we come to the table looking to make international agreements.

Considering McGuinty's own policies are taking disposable income from our pockets like I've never seen, I think he's more than capable of taking our economy into the crapper without help from Harper. As long as this country takes from the haves and gives it to the have nots Ontario will lose. Class envy and wealth distribution never work. Really? Im pretty sure it does work. Its worked for Canada so far. Look at our economy and budget compared to the G8... were doin pretty damn good. Personally I would rather know that my next door neighbour can eat rather then me be able to go buy one more DVD. Cause when he gets desperate hes going to steal my DVD's.

really... umm I dont really like McGuinty but that in no way means Harper needs to treat him like $hit or not to work with the ELECTED LEADER of Ontario for two friggin years. "The west wants in" translation "Ignore Ontario" ...great... I can't wait to see our economy go down the tubes again. (sigh) One breif meeting after months of requests with Canada's largest economy and most populous province. Seriously you don't think he could make a little time to have an honest working relationship with Ontario? You don't have to like someone to do business with them, but you don't go insulting them behind their back.

I heard this reported on the radio today and did a quick google search to find the story off the net. http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=968350116467 yeah i know its the TS and you may Bish about bias this and bias that but the fact remains this DID happen. So after months of trying to get a face to face with Harper, McGuinty finally meets with him face to face yesterday. Then just that evening Harper introduces John Tory at a fundraiser as the 'Next Premier of Ontario'. My distaste of the ontario Liberal parties leader aside this is a Jerk thing to do if I have ever heard of one. I took McGuinty 4 months to get a face to face with harper... then got a big slap in the face, incidentally Harper is meeting with the Quebec Premier for the 4th time since he took office. Quebec 4 Ontario 1 + a big slap in the face. Something is wrong here... Personlly I think it shows some serious disrespect to the voters of Ontario. Who incidentially don't seem to think much of Harper anyways. If it were Martin, Cretien, Mulroney or Trudeau I would still say that it was a disrespectful move no matter who said it. The next provincial election is not slated for almost another two years. So harper is being a total wanker to the leader of the economic engine of canada... nicely played... well thought out... jeesus... someone needs to learn some tact. Im not against politicians endorsing each other... its politics and part of the game... but the timing of this is just well... insulting and not something I would expect from the top politician in Canada. Can you imagine what would happen it Martin or Cretien did the same kind of thing in Alberta or Quebec?

I still have tonnes of tax credits built up from university. Still not paying taxes and getting about 3 grand back from the gov't, plus 4 quarterly GST rebate checks. I of course have paid out way more then what im getting back in GST and other sales tax, but hey im not complaining. The rebates help, especially when your young and you are just trying to buy the essentials for life on your own + a car for work... and yes all you crazy hippies i actually NEED my car for my job. Personally when i finally run out of old tax credits ect. I won't complain. We live in one of the best country's on earth, if its gunna cost me a bit extra so be it. Nothings free, and im more then happy to pay my taxes. Taxes are taken off my paycheck just like everyone else. I see how much goes into the gov't coffers, right now though i get it back and it all goes into my retirement savings and savings for future downpayments ect. I can't understand why people bish so much about their taxes... its not all bad.

"Milk Concentrates" is basically the dry milk components that you use to make some yogurts and many thickeners use it. You will see this listed on ingredients panel as 'milk ingredients'. I.e. powdered milk and that sort of stuff, which is easily transported. My argument was more refering to fluid milk. BTW August transportation is one of the main reasons why, fluid milk is not shipped across the country. (Its part of my job to crunch these numbers). "We are the 3rd largest producer of milk in Canada, produce more per capita than Ontario and Quebec. The problem is we can't sell it because Quebec milk sets the price level, so we get no new markets." That stat means nothing. Alberta has arseloads of land and a pupulation less then that of the GTA. Even if you could produce it, who would buy it? You need a processor that is relatively close. Most dairy products cannot cross the Can/US border. So i guess you could sell it to BC, and Sask. but those markets are relatively small in comparison. Lowering the price of the milk that you sell will not help you gain acess to new markets. The market is saturated, dairy consumtion is decreasing, and the large markets are realatively far away. Even if you could export your dairy products around the world your still competing agains countries with major subsidization and who are basically already dumping excess supply to the world market. Exactly where is the competative advantage?

Geoffery... it still would not matter... alberta would not be competitive because it is located geographically further from the largest markets in canada. Alberta may be able to produce milk at a lower cost, but the competitive price advantage is lost when transportation costs are factored in. OK well make it real simple Milk production in ontario cost < Milk production in alberta cost Milk Production in ontario cost + processing costs + transportation to mass market < Milk production in alberta cost + processing costs + transportation costs to mass market It is just not feasible to ship fluid milk over long distances. I hope this illustrates why your position makes no sense.

Not a bad article. It does show that albertan dairy farmers can produce milk cheaper. But thats only part of the equation. Transportation and proximity to market are also very important when you have a product with a relatively short life span(20 days for most fluid milk). The production cost advantage advantage evaporates as soon as you take transportation into account. Its simply not economical to transport milk over long distances. Costs of transporting goods are increasing, the Albertan competitive advantage in production is lost at this stage. If alberta were say closer the the mass markets of canada then it would make sense to have alberta producing for most of canada. As I stated before, the final price for a food item that you pay at a grocery store, incorporates the production costs, transportation costs to the processor, processing costs, packaging costs, distrobution costs, costs to the retailer, and all the margin and profits from each stage along the way as well. Proximity to market is why alberta does not produce milk for the rest of canada.

Lol Canuk E Stan... silly silly. There is a wheat marketing board. Egg marketing board. Im pretty sure there are more subsidies then i care to know about. Milk is not the only ag sector that is subsidized. Most of the "basics" are subsidized. Milk is not special, its one of many basic food items that the Canadian gov't has deemed important enough to have a stable domestic supply.

Alberta simply cannot produce enough milk for the rest of the country. Milk is not a very stable product, typical shelf life is only 20 days. Grocery stores take milk off the shelves 5 days before the date code is due. Its a simple matter of numbers. You lose a third of your shelf life in transportation. Efficiency is lost. So much for specialization. Not to mention the added transport costs(so much for lowering emissions). Frankly im happier knowing that my milk didn't come from clear across the country. I have seen no convincing evidence that Alberta can produce milk at a more economical level and provide for the whole of the nation. Hell even Alberta has a milk marketing board... so clearly there is a need for one.

I'm reading here an admission that milk is not all it's made out to be. It can cause problems and is not the only source for good health. Other foods can replace it's health benefits. It has problems the same as alcohol,tobbacco, ect.,ect. I don't see subsidies being given out by the government to alcohol or tobbacco or foods that give the same nutrients as milk.Milk is just another food. Sorry but, it does not deserve special treatment,nor do the people who produce it. No Canuk E Stan... there is not admission that milk is bad for you or whatever the hell your trying to read into what im saying. Milk & dairy products are very good for you there is a reason its one of the 4 food groups. Yes ther are alternatives... but there not for everyone. I personally can't stand the wannabe dairy products... imho their gross and don't even compare to the real thing. (soy also gives me uber stinky farts... ewwwwwww) No one is forcing you to consume dairy products Canuk E Stan, but you can't deny the fact that they are a major component of most peoples diet. Equating milk with alcohol or tobacco is just plain weird... and frankly makes no god damn sense. Im going to read into what you seem to want me to say... would you like me to say that milk is the product of the devil? The first drop of milk that hits your tongue will make your heart explode?? Its part of a healthy diet... for gods sakes, its not part of a crazy fad diet. You can eat all the soy products you like, but they have their own set of drawbacks. If you would think and be sensible, Im saying that overconsumtion of ANY FOOD, wether it be milk, soy, carbs, meat, fish can and in all probability will be detrimental to your health. A balanced diet is how you stay healthy, an unbalanced diet is how you get sick. Yeesh... can i make it any clearer? Wait Yes I CAN! BINGO!!! Canada's Food Guide to Healthy Eating http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-guide-al..._ciel_ga_e.html enjoy the read =P Lets get back to the topic. margarace... you touched on a point I made earlier. The free market fails, because the model was drawn up a couple hundred years ago before the corporation became the dominant business entity. In the "free" market system, there are supposed to be many small businees entities, not massive corporations that span a country or the globe. Here in lies the failing... economic models are all based on a set of assumtions. Where the free market system falls flat on its face, is in the assumtions. The corporate model for business has changed dramatically over the past 200 years and yet the free market model remains unchanged. People still tout the free market system as the be all and end all of economics. Its not. Its a great model but its horribly out of date. Im not proposing some overriding socialist economic scheme... but it really bothers me when people state that the 'free market' shall rule the day, and screw everyone in its path. The other point i would like to make is that in modern agriculture... the free market has little to do with the prices we pay for our food. Globally most commercial agriculture is subsidized... removing Canada's subsidies before the rest of the world is just going to screw us and the farmers first. When there is general world concensus on removing subsidies(im not holding my breath for this to happen anytime soon) then I say remove the subsidies. But not a moment before.

Geoffery... my opinion has been formed by researching the topic. I have spent quite a bit of time reading about Mercola and his likes. It takes some digging but you can usually find a reason for what they say. An example, the NOT MILK website, is a perfect example. Robert Cohen the founder of www.notmilk.com also happens to sell his own machine to make soy drinks... hmmm vested interest... i think soooooo. Hell Ill even state up front, i have a vested interest, dairy products help pay my bills. There ya see up front. I would like to say though that im trying not to misrepresent the facts or skew them in a different light. Everyone in some way shape or form is biased. Im trying to inform you that there is alot of misinformation about almost every food product there is... so really really question peoples motives. Milk is not a magic food to cure all cures. Its not. Its just a food. In moderate quantaties it can be benificial. Just like most food, you eat in excess then it can become detrimental. Some people are allergic to casien(milk protein) or lactose intollerant(genetic condition where your body stops producting the enzyme lactase, it really depends on your ethnic background). Milk is not for everyone. Saying milk is for cows is a fallicious argument. Im pretty sure an apple was meant to help seed another apple tree but we still eat them. Im pretty sure a soy bean was never meant to be squeezed and drank yet, they are. Its just another way of aquiring nutrients, thats all. I would like to bring the discussion back to the topic. The Quota System.

lol so your openly defending someone who openly advocates fake cures, and gives health advice that can seriously harm you or kill you... wow. I guess those 'psychic surgeons' are justified when they charge people a couple grand to cure people of their cancers. Well the FDA nailed this guy selling unapproved drugs and making false health claims about them. Not to mention other dubious health claims and advice. Yeah Galileo may have been dubbed a Quack by the church at the time, but he was also a genious and a scientist. Mercola is neither.

CONGRADULATIONS YOU HAVE OFFICIALLY QUOTED A CERTIFIED QUACK!!!! Dr. Joseph Mercola is actually listed as a certifiable quack. YAY for promoting questionable health information. http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/index.html don't beleive everything you read on the internet Canuk E Stan... check your sources, then check theirs.

"I think that if Canadian farmers were smart, they would move into the free-range, organic, high-quality end of the food market" Guess what part of the industry i work in. My milk sells @ about 8 bux for 4L. Organic industry sales are 20%+ year after year... YAY!!! Organics also encourage a farm to be self sufficient. Ie provide its own feed, use crop rotations, compost manure properly to provide fertilizer. There are all sorts of great things about organics, but realistically not everyone can and will shell out the extra $ and frankly i don't expect them to. Generall the organic consumer is the I agree controlled supply management is probably the best of bad situation. But right now there is no such thing as the "free market in agriculture", certainly not in the Adam Smith sense. The problem lies with the fact that almost every major trading partner that canada has subsidizes either farmers or corporate owned plantations. THIS is the problem. Foriegn subsdies for foreign farmers means that they can export excess crops and sell them internationally at below the cost to produce them. If all subsidies were gone, for all farmers, for the nations in which we trade in agribusiness and food, them im all for scrapping controlled supply management. But the last thing we need is to turn the rural areas of our country into ghettos by leaving everyone high and dry. Think of it this way... how many rural economies would collapse if the majority of farmers went bankrupt? How much latent demand for goods that the cities produce evaporate. The effects are more then just a couple of farmers... its small businesses, towns, and the cities. I wish it were easy to fix over subsidization of farmers, im not particularly fond of subsidizing any industry. But like most things, its not black nor is it white... its some pain in the ass shade of grey. This is on the table at most WTO meetings and predictable is a major point of contention. Movement to change farm subsidies are extremely slow at the international level. IMHO when the WTO rules that farm subsidies are illegal and cannot be used by governments then i fully support removing the controlled supply chain and farm subsidies. But removing them before hand is basically just screwing our rural population and ourselves. BTW yeah i know controlled supply was used in the soviet era... it works to a point. Same way as the 'free market' only really works to a point. Neither are perfect. Im under no illusion that this is essentially a temporary fix for a much larger problem that so far our politicians have been either unable or unwilling to really adress. Untill it does, the system should remain in place.

OK.. well after a Looonnngg time away from posting on the forums ill chime in on this one because well... I have a pretty good idea as to what im talking about when it comes to the dairy business. Why? Well I work in the food business. I speak with farmers, processors, distributors, retailers and of course consumers. Basically Ive dealt with the whole supply chain for dairy products in one form or another. By the way I have read the Milk Act for ontario. Its long, its a tedious read, but its interesting... read it you might learn a thing or two. After reading about the canadian food industry one of the consitent findings was this. Canadians spend the smallest proportion of our total income on food then any other industrialized nation. We HAVE the cheapest food around... we don't spend alot on food compared with other countries YET PEOPLE STILL BITCH ABOUT IT?!?! (I will get the info for the academic article back in about a week, one of my friends in grad school is writing a paper on this and wanted my copy). A few of the reasons we have cheap food. Well a stable supply helps. It actually creates all sorts of effeciencies that may not be available in a completely open market. The Dairy Board (DFO in ontario) After reading the laws regarding the DFO and what they do im glad they are there. Why well milk is one of those substances that is perfect for all sorts of good and bad things. Milk consists of vitamins minerals water, sugars and fat, which in food terms is the perfect breeding ground for microbes that can make you sick if its not handled properly. The DFO ensures that the milk is safe and that throughout the supply chain its handled properly. They also issue quota. Now mistakenly most people think that you buy quota for producing milk, thats not entirely correct. You can actually produce as much milk as you would like on your farm. You just can't transport it. The DFO controls the transportation of milk. Transport milk illegally and you get a huge fine. The DFO by selling quota controls the milk supply. The DFO also works with the dairy processors it takes the orders for milk and will distribute it accordingly. Essentially the DFO knows exactly how much demand there is for raw milk(it gets it from the dairies as all milk MUST be processed for good safety reasons) and sells the quota to supply that demand to farmers. THIS IS EFFICIENT. There is very little waste in this process and it helps dairies by allowing them to know what price they will be purchasing their raw supplies for and ensuring that when the dairy is set up to do a run of milk or cheese that the product raw milk actually arrives when its supposed to, resulting in very little downtime in a modern dairy. Which again is efficient. Farm Well a stable supply system helps a farmer because they will know that they will get a target price for their product. This set price allows a farmer to budget, make capital purchases, livestock purchases, hire off farm help if they need it. It essentially helps a farmer by saying you have this much quota, your MAXIMUM income is this, you have these financial obligations. If you want to make a decent living manage your farm accordingly and you should be able to produce a good product and make a little money for your troubles. Distributors Distributors actually gain from a managed supply chain as a distributor lives and breathes on a system of operations management. If a truck is sent to a dairy and there is no product to pick up as the dairy cannot get the supply of raw milk then the distributor is suffering huge costs not only direct but also in opportunity costs(which are very real for distributors). Now im not saying the DFO is perfect at supply management, and that a truck has never had to wait at a dairy, what im saying is that these risks are MINIMIZED by a supply management system. If the risks go up for a distributor they must then raise their prices. Which then get passed onto the retailer. Retailers (cont'nd) If the price that a distributor charges to a retailer goes up, then naturally the price will also increase at the retail level. Now what most people don't know is that grocery stores operate at extremely low margins. What is extremely low... well ill tell ya 1%... thats it folks a whopping 1%. Next time you go through the check out look at your bill if you spent $100 on groceries you have just made them a profit of $1 thats it. Supply management is a HUGE part of retailing. The king of kings in retailing is of course WalMart, who interestingly enough do not view themselves as retailers. They take the veiw that they are only the platform of which to move products and thats what they do really well. When Walmart lists (stocks) your product they INSIST on a total fill rate for your product that you produce. IE if they order 100million units you better be able to produce 100million units or you will find yourself on the wrong side of the walmart spank machine. Walmart and Loblaws(if you follow loblaws as of late you will know why this is an issue) both follow the Golden Rule of Retail. "You Cannot Sell From an Empty Shelf". Essentially empty space on a shelf is a double whammy as far as costs. You cannot of course sell a unit of goods that isn't there no revenue, the goods that should be there also has an allocated fixed costs for the space it would normally occupy. If a retailer has a consistent supply of goods, the less downtime there is for sales, the more consistent the revenue base is for a retailer the lower the margins have to be to make money, the less a consumer has to pay at the till. The Consumer The consumer benifits in many ways. First the product is safe, it is handled for the most part in a proper manner(ie milk usually does not go bad early these days and you won't die from drinking it or get sick<- by the way that saves us on medical costs as well ) Second the consumer benifits from a stable supply of products, ie i can go to the grocery stores anytime and 99.9% of the time I can buy what i need, the consumer doen'st have to waste their money, gas & time. Finally WE SPEND LESS ON OUR GROCERIES yay!!! I will continue this post when i have more time... for now. Take some time to digest this food for thought. Cliche.

Ummm yeah about those "Succesfull" military campaigns... Afghanistan is still a friggin mess... NATO doesn't even come close to controlling the country, warlords do. Not much of a 'success'. Iraq?!?! are you freakin serious explain how the US has won? They haven't won a damn thing, other then a massive bill for the american taxpayer... victory for the IRS I guess . The "insurgency" which is not really an insurgency at all as it mainly consists of iraqis is hardly getting better, more US troops and Iraqis die every day, and little to no progress has been made. As far as the other points Dubya hardly had a hand in any of those things. I can hardly imagine how the history books will view a president that deceived a nation into going to war and took one of the largest surplusses in history to the largest deficit in history... generally those aren't viewed as presidential successes.