Army Guy

You got what you wanted, someone to say we are no better than they are...Big deal......Yes the west is responsible for their share of the middle eastern affairs..as is the Muslim states, and their people.....so now what Eyeball, the wind is out of your sails, time to go home........and how you got into this debate is beyond me, your fix for the problem was to do nothing, let them fix it...stay out of the region..... No where in my post did I ever seek justifications for what has been done....I did however say we have done a lot for the region, not just militarily..... As for your remarks about being an arm chair historian.....that's rich even for you, atleast I have been part of history, took an active role in it....while you sat at home whining and complaining and telling others I told you so, been telling you that for years.....

Shady has a valid point, Syrian refugees have other factors to deal with that take precedence....such as family security....providing for them....that does not in any way mean they have to like the country they are going to, or for that matter the people within it..... Talk to some of the military guys that went over to assist them getting here, ask them if they were all giggles and smiles....

you can not just brush everyones concerns aside calling them names or placing them in some hole such as racist etc....it all has to be taken into account , before we rush off and do something that we will once again regret in the future

Lets just say for argument sake your right, we as North Americans are no better than those we criticize...we have warts, we've done some things that we are not proud off, as well as practices that not everyone likes or shares.....We after all are human , we bleed red, share the same anatomy, regardless of color , creed, or religion.....So we are all the same.....no more civilized, not superior in any way, but rather equal.... But you can't sit there and not say we have not held out hand to help....One has to ask How many migrants has Canada accepted last year, the year before and so on...How much of our treasure have we spent assisting in humanitarian efforts ? How much blood has this country bled for other states, regardless if our citizens agree with the mission or not, or whether they were good ideas or not, I think they all hade good intentions to start with..... Our history is full of examples....of Canadians helping out others in their time of need, WWI, WWII, Korean war, cold war, hundreds of peace keeping missions, not to mention all of the thousands of humanitarian missions we have assisted on or carried out on our own, via various agencies....once again we have not touched upon the average Canadian citizen that has helped thousands around the world via their own pocket, be it sponsoring children, giving to aid agencies....all in all Canadians are very giving....we tend to forget that.... So when some of it's citizens say we are not comfortable excepting in Muslim persons....to the point our government conceded to taking in whole families, or single women and their families , and of course the prosecuted, gay, Christian and other minorities..... we do so, not because we are racist, we do it because we are concerned, some even frighten....for our way of life, our security, our well being....it does not mean we are not willing to help, but rather want to do it in a way that suits us.....does that make us bad, or racist....if that was true deep down we are all racist..... There are some out there saying this will not happen , your making a big deal out of nothing....maybe so, but it is already happening in Europe , we underestimated what it would take to be successful in bringing all these people to our countries, we are not prepared, both physically and mentally to accept this challenge without some major conflict .....

I will call bullshit one last time to the post " the point you are missing is that there is no "Muslim countries" as a group. They are different from each other as they are from other states..... They're are dozens of states that identify themselves as Muslim or Islamic states....it is not just a western term that balled them up into one category to make our lives easier.....that is how they want to be identified.....A while each may have it's own personality, they are closely bonded by their religion and the moral values that it brings with it....I might add it is these moral values that clash with ours, they do not mix much like oil and water.....In fact they share more of their culture than say western nations share with each other.... Not sure what taking a flight from Dubai to Kabul has to do with anything....I've taken this flight many times in the past, and found that Afghanistan's national airline to be much better than most western airlines....for the service, not so sure on the maintence aspect....but that is the industry they are in, does not mean I would want to move my family there or live there....Nor does it mean their culture is any more tolerate of others.....

Gosthacked: I did mention that the government has masses of info available to it that Joe public does not have access to, that has always been the way , a fact we as citizens know very well, that our government does not share all of it for security reasons or need to know.....I did not say they were not forth coming as to why we were in Afghanistan, they clearly spelled that out, they clear spelled out our mission , our role in that mission, including costing, after action reports on battles, etc you name it they released it....all Joe citizen has to do is look for it.....or have some interest in the subject.... Would I give the government a passing grade for maximising its message to the people "NO" , I would not, the government did not use all media forms available....nor did it track and ensure the accuracy of each news report....after it was reported by various news agencies.......but to blame it not only with the governments message or its release of info,NO not the only problem.... it was how the media reported it....I attended several news releases briefings while I was over there, as part of a security det for the media....of battles or operations I took place in....and what was reported the next day in the media, was not even close.....and yet the media all attended the same briefing, and the story came out dozens of ways....very rarely did they get it right the first time.....hard to get the news when most media agencies did not bother to leave the camp.....there was a few exceptions...that media pers went outside the wire....but not many....they reported news as it happened and told it like it was and most of those were women........the rest of them might as well stayed in Canada... Combine this with Joe publics interest in the topic....and you get the right conditions, most of the public did not give a damn about Afghanistan, or the mission, they could not take the time to inform themselves, and when soldiers began to speak, the brushed them off as government puppets....they did not want to hear any more, they had already formed their opinion...Who do I blame , well you already know that answer.....who do I want making those decisions about where and when to send it's troops....not Joe public who has on many occasions proved not very good stewards of our nations military... I want the guy that has been flooded with all the info they need to make a life and death decision.....

We are talking about to very different cultures here, and there is bound to be clashes.....I served in Germany for 5 years with the military, when it comes to sexuality Germans are very relaxed, so much so that me as a western had to take some time and adjust...places like public swimming pools or bath houses for the most part are unisex, sure there is a few changing rooms but for the most part it is unisex, meaning one large changing rooms, most pools also have a general public area, and areas such as hot and cold sauna's that require no clothing and are unisex....In Baden Baden the entire top floor was NO Clothing area.....it contained juice bars, various hot tubs,saunas, and cold dipping pools...It was normal for entire families to vist and take part in all the pools facilities....it was a normal outing for them...only ones that had problems was outsiders..... I won't get into Germans strip bars or sex houses, topless beaches....but remember it was these people the "refugees" that decided to come to Germany, to enjoy all the benefits it had to offer, and part of that is excepting they are not in kanas anymore toto, every paradise has its warts as well.... regardless if the decision is excepted as right or wrong, racist I highly doubt that....that being said unless Germany changes all these practices to allow refuges to fit in and not be insulted which I don't think will happen....the refugees will have to adapt...and except their new home or go back to Syria....

No Muslim countries, are you sure, just did a google search, and shit son, there are tons pages upon pages came up.....all on the topic of Muslim countries....Now maybe google got it wrong....Or maybe my first I thought maybe it was just a western nation thing that had slotted them into that hole ....nope these same Muslim countries identify themselves as a Muslim or Islamic state....go figure.... And while it may be true that they are not all in the middle east, there is a lot of that do exist in the middle east....I will give you this each and everyone of them are different , just like every western nation is different from each other however we do share in common a lot of values and moral codes that guide our nations.....as with the Muslim countries.... what ties them together is the Islamic religion...that for these nations most part share in the same moral values taken from their religion....

Topaz: don't use the soldiers as an excuse , it is not fair to them....remember it was the soldiers that wanted to stay and finish the job.... tell eyeball why you think this is a bad and horrible mistake....

I'm not crying about anything....we were pulled out of Afghanistan because of ill informed public pressure....we talked about this already....you know the same people you think knows better than the government.....and yet could not make a decision if their lives depended on it....because nobody cares to get informed like they should....poggy check, beer store and hockey night in Canada , if we had messed with any of those Afghanistan would be over in a week.... Come on eyeball really, in harms way....lots of terrorist in BC is there..i'm willing to bet it is the same as it was 10 years ago....Harms way in deed....I see it it in a different light, our nation helped out another in it's time of need....but then again your not the sharing type of guy are you....

Yes I trust in our form of democracy, it works...but what your forgetting Eyeball is those elected officials have at there finger tips mountains of info that are not available to the ordinary citizen....it is not from the intra net of media, but from experts in their field....My disdain for them is some of the time they decide what is in the best interest for the country, by listening to public opinion instead of the facts they have been presented....plus instead of presenting the facts they can in a clear manner, to educate those that want to be...but not all Canadians want to be....you talk to the average joe, each and everyone of them will give you a different story of world events going on today....some of it is right but most is not.....I want to put the trust of my life into someone that is going to have a lot more facts than the average joe.....you don't have to like it....but then again it is not your life....

You guys make it sound like the military are a bunch of robots acting only upon the governmental orders. there are a series of checks and balances in place to ensure that the military stays in check, but also the government stays in check....Our history has a couple of examples Cuban missile crises comes to mind...Canadian government refused to take part in the blockade....Canadian military refused those orders as it was a nation ending moment in our history....and sent the navy in despite the government s orders..... You all forget that our military is full of Canadian citizens , who do not swear allegiance to our government but rather to the Queen of England....the commander and chief of the military is the governor general....who does not have direct ties to our PM, or should not have... while it maybe a moot point these days, and perhaps just a ceremonial position it is set that way to be one of those checks and balances...meaning the PM could not unleash the military on it's citizens without the queens approval.... That and the fact we are ourselves Canadian citizens and most troops would have a major problem with using force on our own citizens...to the point unit integrity would be compromised....My opinion only....there are exceptions to the rules....FLQ crises, Mohawk up rising in Quebec....but these incidences were in the best interest of the country, again my opinion only... I put my trust in the government for a lot of reasons, they are better informed about all major and minor things that effect our nation, they have more resources, access to info that the public does not, depts. and people within those depts. who are experts in almost every topic....so who would you pick to make the best decision, the regular joe smoe of the street, or some expert in that field....remember it is your life that could hang in the balance....also remember the public does not have a very good record when coming to making good decisions....Afghanistan counts as two...one the majority thought it was a good idea to get involved....then second to leave....there are plenty more history is full of them.... Of course there is the citizens themselves...who have in all our years as a nation have kept things on a even keel.....

eyeball since we have not had a draft since the later stages of WWII, and then only 12500, troops were sent over seas, with very little of those seeing combat.....the Canadian military was filled with volunteers.... I guess we are all safe from being drafted......

SRV: I think your reservist hit out of the park, the bond between soldiers who fight together becomes as strong or stronger than siblings, I mean the you share everything, food, water, news form home,even bed spaces....everyone depends on each other to survive, that includes physical health as well as mental health,so everyone is looking out for each other... there is no one else to share your highs or lows with except your section members....you know them as well or better than there spouses.....plus you share all those experiences you go through the good , bad and ugly.......like I said there is no bond that is stronger....even after retirement I still keep in close contact with those brother in arms.... there are a lot of things that happened over there that some of those also had a profound impact on my motivation on my service in country, things like seeing the terrorist crimes up close and personal, such as finding an old man skinned alive staked him out in the hot sun to cook for talking to us.......or having to take part in shooting a 4 year old boy on a bike that had a suicide vest strapped to his little body, and catching the man who forced him to peddle his bike towards.our Veh check point....that and the death of my closest friend, had driven into some dark times....bluring the lines between what I thought were strong moral values ...I did not do anything illegal, just did not have any compassion for our enemies....Things that i'm sure I will have to atone for in front of our maker...and it took a while for me to come back from....it was my section mates that put me on the road back to some normalcy like I said there is no stronger bond than brothers in arms.... The pipe line myth, my entire time in Afghanistan I did not see any pipe lines, I had mentioned it to my chain of command, all they said was it would to hard to protect, and would be a prime target for every group in the area....and would never get off the ground...infact there was talk about routing it through another route for these very reasons, the resources it would have generated for Afghanistan would not pay for the resources required to protect it.... I have never thought the mission was completed, it required more time, not just militarily but also on the other governmental depts... but remember the west was under tremendous pressure to close it all out...it's citizens are not a patient lot, regardless of what was truly at stake...

well eyeball if it was your life in the balance you to may share the same opinion.....but it does not...

Big guy: What did you think was going to happen after we decided to drop all our promised commitments....and pulled out.....another example of just how much regular Canadian citizens can influence our governments decisions on the global stage...This is what you wanted was it not, and yet the only people getting hurt with that decision is the Afghan people.... Your source contradicts your main talking points about getting involved and making things worse....but the article says very clearly without NATO and the coalition assisting in security operations and nation building projects things are declining rapidly.....

Eyeball.... I have resisted all attempts, Canadians do not have the interest to keep up to date any all the topics needed to make informed decisions of this magnitude. So yes I would rather it be done by the government....

I think Big guy you have this perception that you and I as the general public has a direct say in whether our nation goes to war....your as much as a pawn in that process as you say I am, or was just along for the ride.....while the general public may influence the direction of the war, it certainly does not have a say the actual decision.... You also have this opinion that once war is decided it is a military run matter, not true, the government has final say on every aspect of the conduct of said war.....the military may come up with the plan, and may have some influence in how it is conducted, but it is the government that says yes or no....so saying that the military is facilitating these wars is false.... One more thing while we are playing the finger pointing game, the general public has to own it's share for these failures as well, as it influences the direction , of any conflict.....just try that on for size see if it fits....

eyeball.... yes Eyeball your in harms way...because every terrorist wants to travel to BC take a ride on a fishing boat, they been looking for you since you started posting here........all because we as a nation wanted to help some people, you still don't get it....your from a western country, does not matter what our actions are or were....we are all the same to them....one big target.....so you better hide...

Big guy: Your right I dont care what your expert have to say, I also pointed out to you there are plenty of experts on both side of the fence that have long and winded stories to tell, and did not want to get into a he said she said debate.... Big guy I have always valued your opinion, but you were resorting to nothing more than name calling and judging me for my opinions....and your right I am not interested in that .....

SRV... I want to thank you, for your posts, and apologize for my tone, and perhaps some of my comments, as I do not know you, or know of the experiences you have had. I have spent most of my time here on this forum defending the actions of our nations military, and my comrads actions and have grown a little short tempered with the topic for that I am sorry. This X-mas I spent some time with my best friends family as I do every year as part of a promise I made to him before he passed. this year was tough, a lot of old war memories were brought back up, ones I thought were buried deep, I had to explain to his son how his father died, and why I made it out alive to come home to my family.... His son is now 18 years old and wanted to know the answers to some very tough questions, ones I thought I would not have to answer for a long time....it's not an excuse but rather an explanation of sorts to my responses. I don't think you will find a bigger pacifist than a soldier who has been to combat, there is nothing glorifying about war, it is filled with hatred, and brings out the worse of people on both sides, so much that it changes everything it touches, I mean everything, men, women, children....landscapes, it changes morals, and values, changing everything we value as core beliefs...nothing goes untouched, one of the first things my wife noticed upon my return from my first tour, I was not the man I once was....I despise war and everything it brings to the table... but I also know that sometimes war is inevitable, and sometimes we need to use force to stop evil things from happening.... to protect not only our nation but everything we value as our core beliefs.... I get the fact that most of the conflicts in the middle east are over resources, resources that most of the world depends on it is a sort of life force that drives our way of life..And a lot of people have issues with that, even I have struggled with that dilemma...these resources drive our economy and our way of life....on the other hand we are not ready to give all that up, and live in a third world stage that would follow.... Afghanistan was different because there was no resources to fight over....I also get the fact that originally it was about destroying an evil dictatorship, and several groups of terrorists, holding them responsible for their actions on 9/11...it quickly turned into a nation building exercise that the free world had not done since world war II....it was during this portion that as a soldier I thought I would finally get to ply my craft for good....to be able to use my skills to bring change , not for resources or anything like that but to better the lives of a people who had been beaten to a pulp after 30 years of Constance conflict....it was about enforcing peace, ensuring the Afghan people had a taste of freedom, to enjoy some of those human rights we all talk about and take advantage of here in the west....I know the coalition took advantage of that, making the war about sending little girls to school, etc etc...and yes we did that to a certain extent....education is a key element to renewal....so is building huge infra structure projects , such as paved hyways, linking the trade routes, massive dam projects for hydro power, and watching their economy grow....that is what I believed in, that is one of the reasons I put my hand up and volunteered 3 times....We as a nation , have so much to offer, we are one of the few countries that have excesses in everything....and while the nation did not buy into the PM Harpers intentions, accusing him of being a US puppet....I thought here is a chance to show case what our nation could really do....not just militarily but everything else....and at really little cost, the entire conflict might of cost each tax payer 100 dollars a year....the other cost was to our soldiers....who were asked to put their lives in danger, for me, and many others it was a no brainer.....for most Canadians the price was to high...and yet their portion was only a 100 dollars a year, our soldiers were willing to pay the rest....it was to much for most Canadians....a sad day in our history.... Most will say that the plan is not working....and yet they have no solution to offer...most want to pull out do nothing , let them who can't fight back solve the problem....but this is not a solution I can live with, I did to much of that on UN peace keeping missions, watch, report , and do nothing....but what do I know, I am just a soldier, a governmental puppet.... and then we have the nerve to talk about human rights and everyone should have them....it is our basic rights....and yet we don't want to do anything to ensure that they are enforced...all talk...no action.... In the course of some of our duties we would regularly partrol the townships in our AO, talking with village elders, sharing a meal, planning out community projects we could assist in, such as building wells, a fire engine, or ambulance etc....so like you I got to spend some time with the locals, talk to them about their lifes and what it was like to live under 30 plus years of conflict....it was during on of these patrols that for me everything would become a little less dark.....I had the honor of sharing my lunch with a little girl of 8 years of age....You see when we stopped kids would gather in hopes of getting some sweets....she was a hungry thing and I used that to get her to talk to me, through a interrupter who was sitting next to, ( one of many who had decided to help the coalition as the terrorists had killed his family) I noticed she had no hands, but she did not let this handicap slow her from eating....I learned that the Taliban had cut her hands off for going to school, and if that was not enough they had killed her father in front of her for allowing her to go to school....if that was not enough they had raped her mother as well.....see in Afghan not having a male parent to earn a wage things get real tough....I had asked if she still goes to school, and she looked at me in surprise "of course to honor my father" was her reply.....now this little girl was only 8 years old, and she had already mapped out a huge portion of her life.....she was going to school regardless of the cost , as she had already paid that bill in full....when she left all I could think off was why am I here in afghan ? and I would dedicate my service in her country to ensuring she would have that chance.....as I was in a position that would allow changing of the patrol routes we would always when possible patrol the school district on a regular basis.... I only seen her a couple of times after that day, just a wave here, or to give her some candies with the other kids....but that little girl would become one of the reasons I would stick my hands up to volunteer to come back for each tour.... I know I sounds hard to believe, because of the media hype about our nation fighting so little girls could go to school....but for me it was true....I'm not sure what ever happened to her, or how things would change once we withdrew from Afghanistan.....but for me that experience was worth all my time and effort in that country....regardless of what everyone else thinks about the mission....So I did not keep coming back to seek glory or to die for my nation.....I kept coming back because they needed someone like me and the countless other Canadian soldiers who would give so much to those that needed it...for me it was well worth the 100 dollars in tax I paid , plus all the blood, sweat and tears that most Canadians thought was a waste of our time....

I must have struck a cord with you Big guy, for you to use so many personal insults, I can remember when you used to refrain from those practices, I guess time changes everything doesn't it. but it did not end there did it Big guy no, from your lofty throne you have judged me as just a killer for the state , disregarding all my beliefs and statements as governmental propaganda. no more than what was it you called me, oh ya a government hand puppet.... Hard to take anything you say serious as you don't want to debate, but rather call people names and judge them as you see fit......Which is one of your basic rights....Freedom of speech .....But if you think i'm impressed with a few media so called experts on Iraq , your wrong....the media is full of so called experts on both sides of the fence....all you have to do is look.....but hey.... hard to do when you have to come down from the mountain to use the intra net....I get that.... See for me big guy Afghanistan is personal, I spent almost 24 months over there, most of it was outside the wire, I have seen terrorist at their worst....I have fired my weapon in anger...I have watch those young men and women you make fun of die, including my best friend who died as I frantically tried to save his life....., I have never glorified war or this conflict, war sucks I've seen it , smelled it, heard it, tasted it, even felt it....but to say it was all a waste of time , blood and treasure is to say they died for nothing....and I don't believe that, not for one second....I don't care what the experts say.....nor do I care about a few opinions... For those that say that the Canadian military did not make a difference for the better in the daily lives of the Afghan people I say your full of shit....lairs... perhaps those of you that believe that horse crap should do some research on there own countries military contribution to Afghanistan....I am proud of my service to my country, and I was honored to serve with some of the finest Canadians soldiers there ever was... And big guy...I wear that Canadian flag with pride....still do....and I wave it when ever I get a chance....PS, big guy I left a lot of good friends on the battle field over there and there are days I wish I had died with them....not for my country or my unit, or anything else...but for my comrads...but you would know nothing about that, you sit to high up the mountain to see that, or to understand why we all stuck our hands up and volunteered to go back over and over again....

SRV.... I see you and big guy have been reading the same media.....and have determined the same outcome, that we should all sit down in front of the camp fire and sing kumba yah.....hold hands, drink some beer, smoke some weed and all will be good.....and while it is good to dream, of a place that everyone gets along, respects the basics such as human rights, peaceful co existence with all races, religions, creeds etc etc....but welcome to the real world....it will never happen....how's that for being cynical.... your premise of your main argument is we are creating more terrorist than we are destroying.....what a load of horse shit.....your equations you base this on only take into account our actions, and totally dismiss the actions of the terrorist.....ya that's right the terrorist side, always two sides to the coin isn't there.... Take a look at the figures for Afghanistan.....all of them....80 to 85% of all of them that have been killed or wounded are by the terrorist themselves....but hey that can't be right....the bad guys are killing more innocents than the coalition forces.... that are fighting them.....and yet, according to your whole premise of your argument those numbers count for nothing it does not create citizens willing to fight on the coalition side.....that can't be right....can it.......just the 15 to 20 percent that have been killed or wounded by coalition forces....those numbers are responsible for all those new terrorist....we can't win.... it is one big circle.....shit time to sit back down by the fire come up with another idea, this one is not working.....pass that joint down will ya.... .....you Fail to account for any other reason why young Muslim men flock to these scumbags and their cause....If we bury our heads up our asses the bad men will go away.....Sorry the REAL world does not work that way.....you can't sit on top of your throne and preach about human rights and expect everyone to stop and listen.....These guys ( THE terrorist) don't give a rats ass about your human rights theories and they are not interested, they want the ability to have total control over millions, to force upon them their will, their opinions, their form of rights, and none of it has any resemblance of your belief of human rights.....SO by us and the rest of the coalition sitting on our hands doing nothing and letting millions of human soles be treated like mere animals....well sir your human rights means what.....it is what we aspire to be ....but human rights is just for us right.....not the millions of oppressed.....It means nothing if there is no way to grant these basic rights to everyone....every where....and to do that you can't sit on your hands bury your head in your ass....some times you need to stand tall, pick up a big stick and beat some one with it.....and if your not willing to do that sit back down on your throne, and STFU, your basic human rights for everyone is just a dream unless you are willing to stand up for those that can not defend themselves...... We can count ourselves extremely lucky in this country we live in a country with huge excess of everything....we sit here and judge so many, it's our basic right as Canadians... we are good at judging like it is in our DNA or something....but lucky for us there are Canadians among us, that are willing to take those core values and take some actions.....taking the fight to terrorists....standing up for the little guy....That part of our DNA is a lot older than the part of us being so judgmental , our history is full of examples.....

Here is an example of a EX muslim women, speaking out again'st Islam....Her name is Wafa Sultan, she is a Psychiatrist and ex Syrian....and the Author of a God that hates... If you look there are many of other ex muslims speaking out on the topic of Islam....none of them white guys, all have studied Islam for many years....Is she preaching hate or discourse, not in my opinion , but then again i'm white....and a non muslim... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XUHXu0gC4s

That trip he took down the high way....was arranged by the Canadian heroes foundation, the same organization that arranges the same route for fallen Canadian armed forces members, if you watch the footage you'll see he is being escorted by Canadian military vets on Moto bikes and a Van that is also apart of that groupthe same people were also Pall bearers......Just a point of order there was thousands that turned out, including police officers, fire fighters, serving members of the Armed forces, and you guess it Canadians citizens ....all happen to share that minority opinion.... Not sure how many you rub elbows with down at the local legion.....but i can ensure you thousands of Canadians don't share your view..... You can call him anything you want, that's within your freedoms, the very same freedoms that John Gallagher once defended....and for that he has my respect.. From the legion no less...... Even more people that do not mind sharing the highway for someone who truey believe he could help someone else in the fight again'st a common enemy.....Hardly the actions of a rogue ex military member.... No mention of rogue here..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3327834/Hundreds-come-pay-condolences-John-Gallger-s-body-returned-home.html http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/happening-now-john-gallagher-receives-hero-welcome-on-hwy-401 http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/18/highway-of-heroes-style-tribute-sought-for-volunteer-soldier-killed-in-syria