naomiglover

Double post.

Where do you get this information? Anything to back up your claims? It's not ironic that he was involved in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. The reason that he was is because he has the experience and the credentials. The U.N. is far from perfect and it has faults, however, you have yet to share any problems with the Goldstone report. All you've managed to do is to say that the 'groups who gave testimony are biased' without anything to back-up your comments. Who cares? I do and many other Jews do. So do people who care about justice. What is wrong with you? You're just babbling now. Trying to mask your failure to back-up your claims and your inability to have an honest discussion with a bunch of rubbish. Tell me when you're ready to have a real discussion, instead of wasting time.

There doesn't have to be an "Or". Why not condemn any act that is wrong? There is nothing wrong with condemning both Hamas' and Israel's violations of international law.

No it doesn't. I don't think anyone here claimed that the video told the entire truth. It's a short video which cannot detail everything. You want to discuss the matter, this thread is your opportunity. I don't think there is any dispute here that launching rockets are illegal and wrong. I'm sure most people in this thread, including muyself agree that Hamas committed war crimes by launching the missiles. The investigation in regards to Hamas using civilians as shields came to the conclusion that there was no evidence that it took place. In fact, the report came to the conclusion that Israel used civilians as shields regularly. Why aren't you waving your fingers at Israel for doing this? I thought you were actually going to come up with some rebuttles. Instead, you sent me to an opinion page by some Melanie Phillips. That's all it was. An opinion piece with no evidence or facts behind the opinions. You need to do better than that. So keep trying. No one said the video has documented everything. What it did was give numbers about the attack on Gaza. You want to go into depth of the attack on Gaza, then read the report, which covers Hamas' war crimes, yet that's not good enough for you either. Can you point to specifics in the Goldstone report that you do not agree with? Percisely why Goldstone would not do the investigation unless Hamas was also investigated. That's not true. You either haven't read the report and its methodology and are retyping a nerrative that isn't true or you're making things up. What? Where do you come up with these things? UN was established 3 years before Israel came to be. Besides the resolutions like Resolution 54, what else could they have done? Silly. No one allows themselves to be attacked. If you want to be taken seriously, stop making comments like that. Israel is no longer the victim. This is all about real estate. If you look at what the Palestinian land size was in 1948, then in 1967 and what it is now, and you were an honest person, you would know who the aggressor is and who the victim is. Israel also behind targeting civilians, kidnappings and assassinations. The difference here is that I'm not defending Hezbollah, but you are defending Israel. So we've gone from moral equivalence to a 'signed' treaty. So if Iran pulls out of the NPT, you would be okay with Iran having nuclear weapons? When it comes to domestic law and as long as the judgement is about Jews in Israel, Israel is decent democratic nation, however, when it comes to international law, they continue to violate numerous laws. No one here is defending Iran's government. Looking at Israel's repeated violations of international law and their aggressive military approach both now and in the past, and taking into consideration Iran's history of wars, without hesitation, I would bet on Israel to use nuclear weapons.

I am stating a fact. You should read the report since you have so much to say about it. No I am not. However, I do know that Richard Goldstone is a professional and cannot be seen as otherwise, by any honest person. How about we see what Goldstone has to say about that: MARK COLVIN: I believe that you have said recently that your findings wouldn't necessarily stand up in a court of law; what do you mean by that? RICHARD GOLDSTONE: Ours was a fact finding mission, it wasn't a criminal investigation, it wasn't a judicial or even a quasi-judicial investigation. We came to conclusions on the facts that we were able to gather. It there are to be prosecutions either in an international court, or I would hope in an domestic court, whether in Israel or in Gaza against people who are suspected of having committed any violations of international law, these facts that we found would have be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, which clearly wasn't a standard that we used. http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2009/s2721744.htm

Speaking of Nazi hunters; Goldstone helped track down and bring to justice Nazis in Argentina. Now he has a report that accuses Israel of committing war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.

According to you, who has not read the report. If you had, you would know that it's more than a testimony of 1 person that is taken into account. Richard Goldstone's methodology of investigation has been good enough for him to be selected as the chief prosecutor for international criminal court for the former yugoslavia and rwanda. Judge Goldsone was also a member of the International Panel of the Commission of Enquiry into the Activities of Nazism in Argentina (CEANA) which was established in 1997 to identify Nazi war criminals who had emigrated to Argentina, and transferred victim assets (Nazi gold) there. The investigation was done professionally. Your attempt to discredit Goldsone and his investigation is a failure.

From the report - Page 281 - Israel uses civilians as human shield: He was scared that the fighters would shoot at him and shouted, “I am a Palestinian, a neighbour. I am being forced to come into this house.” In a room at the bottom of the stairs he found three armed young men wearing military camouflage and headbands of al-Qassam Brigades. They pointed their weapons at him. He told them that the Israeli soldiers thought that they had been killed and had sent him to check. He said that he was helpless as the soldiers had taken his wife and children. The armed men told him that they had seen everything, and asked him to go back to the soldiers and tell them what he had seen. 1040. He went back outside, again crossing over the roof of his house. As he approached the soldiers, they pointed their weapons at him and ordered him to stop, strip naked and turn around. After he dressed again, he told them what he had seen. Initially, the soldiers did not believe him. They asked how he knew that they were Hamas militants and he explained about their headbands. The soldiers asked about their weapons. He replied that they were carrying Kalashnikovs. The officer told him that, if he was lying, he would be shot dead. 1041. He was handcuffed and taken back to the HS/09 family house for detention. At around 3 p.m., he heard gunfire for around 30 minutes. The soldiers came back for him and took him to the same officer. This time he noticed different soldiers present with different military equipment. Through the translator, the officer told him that they had killed the militants, and told him to go in and bring back their bodies. Again he refused, saying “this is not my job, I don’t want to die.” He lied to them, saying that the three militants had told him that if he came back, they would kill him. The officer told him that, as they had already killed the militants, he should not worry. He added that they had fired two missiles into the house, which must have killed the militants. When he still resisted, he was beaten and kicked again, until he went into HS/08’s house via the roof again. 1042. He found the house very badly damaged. The bottom part of the stairs was missing. He again went in shouting, to alert the militants if they were still alive. He found them in the same room as before. Two were unharmed. The third was badly injured, covered in blood, with wounds to his shoulder and abdomen. They asked him what was going on outside and he told them that the area was fully occupied and the soldiers had taken numerous hostages, including his family. 1043. The wounded man gave him his name (HS/10) and asked him to tell his family what had happened. Majdi Abd Rabbo promised to do so if he survived and later did so. Another of the three told him to tell the Israeli officer that, if he was a real man, he would come to them himself. 1044. Majdi Abd Rabbo returned to the soldiers, who again forced him to strip naked before they approached him. He told the officer that two of the militants were unharmed. The officer swore at him and accused him of lying. Majdi Abd Rabbo then repeated the message from the militant, at which the officer and four other soldiers assaulted him with their weapons and insulted him. 1045. The officer asked Majdi Abd Rabbo for his identity card. He replied that it was in his house but gave him the ID card number. The officer checked the number via an electronic device. Three minutes later the officer asked him if it was true that he worked with the head of Palestinian Authority’s intelligence services, which he confirmed. The officer asked him if he was with Abu Mazen and a Fatah affiliate. He said he was.

Israel has been called a terrorist state. Both have violated international law with their actions. Support for either is wrong.

It allowed Israel to be created. Iran support for Hezbollah is not much different than U.S.' support for Israel. How certain? As certain as Tel Aviv pointing their weapons at Tehran and everyone else around them? If Israel can get away with having nuclear weapons, who are we to say that Iran cannot?

The conflict was investigated by Richard Goldstone. A respected and experienced judge, who is a former chief prosecutor of the United Nations International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and for Rwanda. His findings indicate that both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity. Hamas, for firing rockets into Israel, even if they killed 3 civilians. Israel for numerous acts that they committed. If you want to know about the conflict, have a look at the repot. If Israel follows international law, it does not mean that they would be eliminated.

The stormtroopers came in and denounced the video as biased without giving any specific reason why. The video focused on the numbers, which, as far as I've seen all happen to be true.

Even if it was as black and white as you're trying to paint it; The whole world already knows and is going to continue to know that Israel is breaking international law with their actions. They know that Israel is violating human rights. Israel is the asshole that no one likes and some pretend to like. With its idealism and actions, Zionism makes Jews look bad. It's a good thing that the number of Jews who disagree with Zionism, continue to increase. Change can only come within.

Is this how Hitler rallied his people around him against the Jews?

The Harper government is actually going against Canada's official stance on Israel's occupation. Canadian Policy on Key Issues in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Occupied Territories and Settlements Canada does not recognize permanent Israeli control over territories occupied in 1967 (the Golan Heights, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip). The Fourth Geneva Convention applies in the occupied territories and establishes Israel's obligations as an occupying power, in particular with respect to the humane treatment of the inhabitants of the occupied territories. As referred to in UN Security Council Resolutions 446 and 465, Israeli settlements in the occupied territories are a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The settlements also constitute a serious obstacle to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace. Canada believes that both Israel and the Palestinian Authority must fully respect international human rights and humanitarian law which is key to ensuring the protection of civilians, and can contribute to the creation of a climate conducive to achieving a just, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement. http://www.international.gc.ca/name-anmo/peace_process-processus_paix/canadian_policy-politique_canadienne.aspx?lang=eng#a06

Looks like the storm troopers never fail to make a showing when Israel's actions are criticized. Yes. Israel is sitting innocently in a bar, doing nothing.

We have never had a Canadian government, majority or minority, who has turned a blind eye to the injustices that has and continues to occur and who has so blatantly taken a side. What a shame.

It's because of the weakening US $.

You are the one who came up with the claim that there isn't a difference between rapes in the military and in the university. So it's you who is obligated to back up your claim. Do your own work.

30% of women in the military are raped, according to the research/survey. You keep bringing up bill clinton like he raped someone. I don't care for Bill Clinton, but you should know that there is a difference between rape and sexual assult. Not to mention that in Clinton's case, the charges never amounted to anything but a failed GOP attempt to bring down Clinton. You have a habit of trying to equate two totally different things in order for people to shrug off the situation. Rape is not okay, bush_cheney2004.

Terrorists don't need a country to organize terrorist attacks.

You are right that the situation between Israel and the Palestinians is a central reason in the conflicts we see today. However, it's not just Muslims who are against the occupation. Many non-Muslims, including Europeans and even Jews/Israelis who are against the illegal occupation.

Stop trying to minimize the situation by throwing around words like "alleged". How many of these women, do you think, lied about being raped? Why do you think they would lie? As it has been pointed both in the article, the U.S. military acknowledges that many of those who are raped, do not report. Why don't you provide the statistics of university students who have been raped.

So you're once again saying that Clinton raped someone?

Rape is not okay.