nicky10013

I don't know the lifespan on tunnel boring machines but they purchased one, if not two, for the extension of the spadina and yonge lines.

Pretty much. I think we also need to reckon the fact that for some reason be it political or otherwise, not only is Toronto far larger but it gets far less money. The way things generally operate is that transit systems get subsidies per ride. Ottawa and Calgary, the last I heard, got 3. Cities like New York get upwards of 5. Toronto gets 1.50. That, and honestly, where else would there be subways? At this time I really can only foresee 2 lines. The downtown relief line - essentially another U and a line under Eglinton. However, when the Eglinton subway was literally being tunneled, Ford's buddy Mike Harris came along, cancelled everything and even had the tunnel completely filled in!

Yeah, they've started building the Sheppard LRT. Not to mention the fact that contracts are already in place to start everything else. If they were to cancel it, lots of cancellation penalties.

Maybe if the bill punished the criminals rather than the victims, maybe they'd vote for it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/stephen-brunt/rogers-mlse-deal-makes-too-much-sense/article1820545/ http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/899751--reaction-to-potential-leaf-sale-widespread?bn=1 http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=343627 Interesting. I don't see a difference between Rogers and the Teachers. It all comes down to the guys running the team and in the end despite the whining and the complaining, it's Burke and Wilson who run the team, not the teachers. I think what'll be interesting about this is the fallout a few years from now. There was always scuttlebutt around the city that MLSE and Rogers were going to team up to put up a stadium and buy an expansion NFL team.

I can't say I really notice noise. Though I live a fair clip north of the city proper in the Northern GTA, I've lived in the city before and have spent lots of time downtown at U of T. You really do get used to it. You can get caught in a traffic jam at any time of the day on any day of the week. We were going to pick up my grandmother in Etobicoke. We went across the 401 at noon on a Saturday and it was bumper to bumper. No accidents, no construction, no weather. Just volume. I had a job interview earlier today, actually. It took me 2 hours exactly to get down when it should only take 40 minutes to an hour. I've been out of school for only a little while and since I've stopped regularly heading downtown, I've noticed traffic getting worse and worse. Not a lot of people feel this way, but I just love the bus and the subway. I can just sit, listen to my ipod and get there when I get there. No worrying about traffic, or people cutting me off, or finding a parking spot. Much less stressed on public transit. You also get used to the city smell of stale air with a hint of exhaust fumes. I'm used to it, though. When I was out in Alberta, all I could smell was cow shit depending on how the wind was blowing that day. I'd much rather be in the city .

South Korea has bluntly refused any reunification based on the German Model. They don't want to go bankrupt rebuilding the North.

No, not quite. South Korea has refused that it will accept any type of reunification until the economies of the North and South are roughly equal.

I really don't see the signs of a power struggle. Kim Jong Il went through the same process. He came in and flexed some muscle to get his "credentials." Kim Jong Ils route was terrorism. He kidnapped Japanese citizens and blew up an airliner. Kim Jong Un is actually following a startlingly similar path. There isn't much choice. It's clear that neither the South Koreans or the US wants war, sanctions have failed miserably. What other route is there to go other than to improve relations? Before Lee Myung-Bak came into power claiming that he wasn't going to take any shit from the north, North-South relations were at their best at any point in the past 50 years. Hyundai opened up an industrial park to build cars in North Korea and there were several exchanges to allow family members to meet up. It's proof that North Korea is no where near as crazy as everyone claims. Like I said, they know what they're doing. Previous good will has been met by good will in return. It's the only area where we've had success so why discount trying it in the future?

Since when is the truth chauvenism? The situation is far more complicated. Just rolling up our sleeves with a "git er done" type of attitude won't work. Nope, but it'll accept the outcome of a regime change. Did I say Iraq was North Korea? I merely made the point that general lessons learned from Iraq can be used in future engagements - the biggest of which is we shouldn't be waltzing into countries believing that we're going to be greeted by people handing us flowers. To do anything other than planning for the worst is to not be prepared at all. Yeah not really. No amount of money can teach the Koreans how to run an economy. But they won't. China doesn't care who runs Korea as long as it doesn't bother China. They're not going to get involved. South Korea can't get involved because it means war. Notice how after the sinking of the Cheonan South Korea said they'd retaliate after the next provocation? Notice how they're saying the exact same thing now after that very provocation? This goes to show exactly how much South Korea wants to change regimes by force. South Korea also do not want reunification under a German model. They don't want to bankrupt themselves rebuilding North Korea. Nor for that matter, does the rest of the world. So, your assumption there will be piles of money, other than the fact that it simply won't work, is besides the point because there won't be any piles of money to begin with. You're kidding me right? You're comparing regular crime in the US (which occured in the Soviet Union as well) to Stalin's brutal repressions and genocide? You're saying that rape, as horrible as it is, is the same thing as sending 20 million people to the Gulag? Let's talk about rape inside the gulag. Guards raped women, other prisoners raped women. More established men raped children. The boat ride to the gold mines of Kolyma, it was almost a tradition for groups of men to rush the women's compartment, raping the entirety of the compartment, leaving quite a few dead. Both inside and outside, women basically prostituted themselves so they wouldn't get harsh work details which certainly see them starve to death. The prostituted themselves so they wouldn't be sent to a family camp for relatives of enemies of the state. They were ostracised from their home and family due to fear of being rounded up themselves. So, where in US society does this type of activity happen? I don't think you have a full comprehension of how seriously compromised Soviet Society was. The results are still haunting Russia to this day. You may think of it as some kind of academic exercise, but it's a very real phenomenon. Just because you can't understand that, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You realize that liberation and fed and feeling well will take generations, right? Who wants payback after 60 years? We've dealt with North Korea in every way possible except for one. We need to cooperate and send more aid. You may say hey, this is crazy, but it's not about propping up the regime, it's about helping the people. There are private and public western aid organizations currently operating with North Koreans at this very minute. We need to build up trust with the regime so more can get in. Why? Because all authoritarian governments are built on myths which are reinforced by propaganda. If you deligitimize the propaganda, you deligitimize the entire state. Since NK propaganda is almost solely focused on the Yankee Imperialist Agressor, a benevolent US that helps the people of NK accomplishes that. When they see US and western Aid workers and realize they're not the devil, they'll start asking questions. You also get side benefits of a people who are better fed, economic education will help create a sustainable economy on which a middle class can be built. The middle class is the absolute lynch pin of any modern democracy. Create that and sustainable change will come. It'll take years, but it can be done. Just knocking out a leader, throwing money at the people and hoping it all turns out fine won't work because the people won't know what to make of the change or how to use the money to create self-perpetuating economic growth. What we give them will help in the short term, but will peter out. We'd leave due to the gigantic costs in terms of blood and treasure and in the end since there wasn't a solid base for free institutions to be built on, North Korea, like Iraq and Afghanistan will, will fall back into authortarianism negating any good work done.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, Western Europe is the exception rather than the rule. There was a precedent for that level of development. They knew how to do it and they just rebuilt. That doesn't exist in North Korea. Just showing up with money and expecting them to succeed will fail miserably. I never said change doesn't come. I never said it wouldn't be painful, either. What I did say was that it doesn't happen overnight. Killing the Kim's will not produce the change you're looking for without certain economic conditions being met beforehand. Those economic conditions are generations away. Yeah, actually, we do. From the latest wikileaks dumps, there was a cable in which the Chinese Embassy declared they would support a unified peninsula directed from Seoul. \ So, what you're saying is that we shouldn't be expecting the worse when it comes to military campaigns? Did you learn nothing from Iraq? Like I said, money will not solve this problem. No it won't. Even if another cadre does come in and takes down the Kim's, what's the point when another strongman will just come into power? All that death and waste of capital will be for nothing. Just like what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. No, history suggest exactly that. Indeed, Russia is still corrupt to the core. Surprisingly enough, Stalin and his legacy still drives the nation's direction. The political discussion within Russia ebbs and flows, in tune with whether or not Stalin is or isn't in vogue. The thaw of the 60s undre Khrushchev and Glasnost under Gorbachev saw him condemned as the criminal he was. Neo-Stalinism under Brezhnev and the current authoritarians have rehabilitated Stalin. In an educational conference 2 years ago, Russian historians decreed that Stalin's reign was "mostly good." It's an extension of what happened after his death in the mid-1950s. After he died, it was widely said that there were two Russia's eye to eye - those who were in the Gulag and those who put them there. That's how widely Soviet society Stalin effected. That national trauma carries on to this day as there has been no real national discussion in the way which was carried out in say Germany, South Africa or even Rwanda today. In many ways, the perpetrators are still in government which is why Stalin is back in vogue. Most high members of Putin's administration were ex-KGB agents. Not to mention the real corruption. The economy was so mismanaged that an illegal black market that popped up between plant managers so they could overfulfill their quotas set by the national plan. It was called the Blat or Blatnoy. It still exists. Not to mention the fact that nothing bureaucratically can be done without a bribe, or the fact that Russian police are some of the most corrupt in the world. Considering NK's force labour population by percent has been thought to be larger than the USSR's, North Korea is going to have some incredibly serious issues to deal with. No one is disputing that they should be brought down, however, we should realize that the situation is complex enough that perhaps war isn't the solution. That aim can be achieved through other means.

It's a good story and you're not far off but the East Germans were actually the last to the party. Hungary fell first to reformers, then Czechoslovakia. Hungary was a popular destination for East German tourists and when they got the signal from Gorbachev that there wouldn't be an intervention, the new Hungarian communist government decided to hold a "picnic" for East German tourists. Funny enough, it was located at the border fence between Austria and Hungary. They opened up the fence and everyone started streaming through. So many Germans got through that hole in the fence that essentially the East German government collapsed. Hoenecker resigned and the new politburo, completely unorganized planned to let people pass through the wall. A guy by the name of Gunter Schabowski released it early: November 9th, 1989. After the first checkpoint opened up at Bornholmerstraße, they couldn't go back. East Germany fought tooth and nail every threat to the Communist government. Of all the Eastern European regimes, the DDR was probably the most Stalinist. Not surprising, though considering that East Germany was the country most exposed to the West making the communists extra reactionary. Read The Year That Changed the World: The Untold Story Behind the Fall of the Berlin Wall by Michael Meyer. A short book but with much more detail. Michael Meyer was Newsweek's correspondant when everything hit the fan. Incredibly interesting first hand account along with the requisite history. Anywho, this is way off topic. Interesting, but off topic.

It is. They really do not want an influx of refugees. That being said, if internal regime change can be done without a complete collapse of the nation, as I've always said and as these documents are now revealing, of course they'd be in support of such a change in direction. Bingo. The fact the regime exists adds uncertainty and no nation likes uncertainty. The rhetoric destabilizes the peninsula and even though China wouldn't get involved, a war would be damaging not just to parts of China but the entire region. No doubt, which can be used in a positive way. I think this is the part where we disagree. I don't think China regards North Korea as their child. Not by a long shot. Countries like China and Russia generally oppose measures which try to hold authoritarian countries to account for their authoritarianism. It's not that China regards this as a slight to their relationship with the North, they fear it will set a precedent in regards to potential future actions towards themselves. It isn't a sattelite type of situation. If it was, Russia wouldn't regularly vote against North Korean security council resolutions. The way to do it is through positive open engagement. Pretty much everything else has been tried and has failed. The North Korean regime thinks it's hold on the population is in it's ability to provide relief in terms of food and electricity. If that wasn't the case, they wouldn't be asking for food and electricity in exchange for weapons programmes. Offer to provide assistance with a few basic restrictions and build trust from there. The more we're involved, the more North Korean citizens are exposed to foreigners which deligitimizes North Korean propaganda. Every authoritarian state is usually based on some kind of creation myth. If you destroy the myth, the state can't last too much longer. Again, in complete agreement.

Neither is killing them. I was referring to authoritarian/totalitarian states. They won't. Killing people so they can be free? Yeah, in my book that isn't a good thing. No the, Germans didn't. Denazification programmes were abject failures. Even into the 1950s, German's believed Nazism was a good thing. 37% believed that the extermination of the Jews was right. They got on their feet economically but didn't deal with their issues until much later. Even then, Germany is a special case. It has rich resources and had a previous history with democracy. It allowed for an economic rebound which propped up free institutions. Those things don't exist in North Korea. What people fail to understand that totalitarian dictatorships the likes of Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia, there isn't one group or a small group of people responsible. The entire nation is. The systems of governance permeates down through to every facet of society. Sure Kim is a large part of that but this system wouldn't exist without the devote actions of state and local party leaders, and local party organizations who act on behalf of the central government. North Korean society is corrupted to the bones. Destroying the top leadership won't change that.

China won't be on board, though.

I've already explained that North Korea isn't a market. When people can't even afford food at government subsidised prices, how can they be viewed as a viable market? Workforce? How can they be viewed as a workforce when they're all underfed, and after a war, presumably, half dead? Regime changes take years to happen. People or workers from within the government just don't spontaneously rise up and oust the oppressors. As for why people would want to take over, well, power abhors a vacuum. Like I said, there will always be money in North Korea, it just depends on who it is. If you do what you want to do, someone within the leadership will have the money to rebuild the palaces, buy new mercedes and yes, import the same amount of Hennesy cognac. Yet you just questioned that they weren't. Well, it was Il Duce, and that's a pretty selective memory. What about Hitler? Tens of thousands in Berlin killed themselves because they didn't want to live in a world without National Socialism. What about the millions who fought for Stalin? Or Mao, or Ho Chi Minh?

Hmmm GBU-28 - 30m (100ft) of Earth - 6m (20ft) feet of concrete Pyongyang Metro - 110m (360ft)

Bingo. But, why let reason spoil people's desire for retribution? Funny, people who call for blowing the North to kingdom come always seem to want to "liberate those poor people." It's a good sentiment, but they just don't realize that war would kill as many people as the regime. These decisions are a little more complicated than "They're doing something wrong, lets blow them up."

Now, why in the name of god would China come to the rescue? Second, why would there be a regime change in progress? Just because a leader dies doesn't mean the governance structure changes. People just fill the void. They are paranoid, and the armed to the teeth. Whether they have industructible set of ethics is up for debate. However, considering North Korea is the last Stalinist regime on the planet, I wouldn't be surprised.

So, you're saying if we launch cruise missiles into North Korea wouldn't attack South Korea? :rolleyes: I stand by my original naive statement.

US tanks and planes can't hit what they can't see. The north has dug nuclear proof bunkers across the DMZ.

The Chinese won't get involved.

This is pretty naive. Who says they don't have more money to rebuild after the war? Secondly, this completely neglects what will happen to South Korea and American forces along the DMZ? What about Seoul? You can't just take a decision that will negatively affect the lives of millions (if not kill millions) just because you want to look tough.

Yup, that and they throw up roadblocks AFTER you successfully pass the test. My friend went to school here, lives downtown and wanted to stay after she recieved her degree. She went through the process, took the test and passed with flying colours. Before the test she was told it was the last step to citizenship. After she passed, she was given 6 months more of paperwork.

The thing is, they're not crazy. They're defensive and they're frightened, that's for sure, but that doesn't make them crazy. They know what they're doing and they've known what they've been doing for a long time. They've always been able to squeeze out concessions from the west through the ratcheting up of tensions. That's not crazy, that's just good negotiating. Whether we like what they get or not, the fact that they're able to get it means they're doing a good job for themselves.