dub

okay. that's your opinion. no i get it alright. you said palestinian women can't vote and you were wrong. it's okay, we don't need to drag this any further. the zionist movement is not here to negotiate anything legitimate. their prize has always been control over 'greater israel'. the are only 2 options: #1 - for us and our governments to stop or at least reduce the support for israel. that will put pressure on them to discontinue the systematic land grab and they will be forced to finally allow self determination instead of making excuses. it worked in south africa. could obama put enough pressure on them? i'm not holding my breath. #2 - popultion. the arab population in israel continues to increase rapidly while the jewish population is going the other way. this has become a huge problem for the zionist movement.

i don't think my opinion is worth more than others. however, i do think facts are worth more than some opinions. walked into what exactly? you need to update yourself old man. palestinian women can vote. that's their answer to the tank, plane and helicopter attacks. i guess that's what happens when you are not supplied with tanks, planes and helicopters. desperate situations create desperate responses.

i cannot decide what? i am only pointing out that he's dishonest. i can decide what my observation of him or anyone else is. for example, it's my observation that you are a defeatist. you've surrendered to the fact that some of your policies are controlled by lobby groups who put the interest of another nation before yours. many of these policies hurt your country and you've surrendered to it. some movements take time. if my math is 'good', women were not able to vote for a lot longer than 60 years. their prize have always been to be free on their own land. i don't think they've taken their eyes off of that.

DoP picks and chooses. he's dishonest. he's here cheering for his team and not here to have an open and honest discussion. their failure is mainly due to our support for israel's continuous breaking of international law. slavery, women's right to vote, the apartheid in s. africa, the burlin wall were all at one point failures. these things don't happen over night, especially not when our governments are supporting them. someone your age should know that. did the slaves poop or did they get off the pot? what about women in america? what about the jews during the holocaust?

i said DoP "tries" to change people's minds by repeating half-truths and misinformation. is there any other reason for him to repeat his garbage? i support what exactly? all i support is being consistent with following the laws we've created for ourselves and not pick and choose who should and who doesn't have to follow them. what do you support or offer here? justifying illegal actions because we killed the indians 200+ years ago?

given up way too much land that doesn't belong to them?

i offer a debate based on facts. i don't come in here trying to spin. i don't come in here as a nationalist. i don't come in here trying to change people's perspectives by offering half-truths and lies. what do you offer besides pretending that you're unbiased in these issues?

^ ? looks like DoP will never miss an opportunity to remind us what a useless poster he is. thanx. i will when i get a chance.

what about all the agreements and resolutions that have already been drawn up and passed? like: - partition plan - 1967 border - oslo

no. why don't you read your own response: israel rejected the plan when they decided not to accept the borders outlined in the plan. losing greater israel was against the vision of the zionists. regardless of what the arabs did, israel did not accept the borders.

what kind of peace should they accept?

i don't think anyone here is saying that the arabs accepted the partition. that's not even the argument here. i'm not sure why you're trying to re-write history and say that israel accepted the partition, because they didn't. majority of the main leaders refused to accept the partition and only accepted israel's sovereignty with undefined borders because they all had a vision of a greater israel. heck, they didn't even accept the 1967 border.. i mean, for fuck sakes, the current israeli prime minister won't even accept a palestinian state. krusty... why do you continue to make excuses? why don't you just be honest about the situation?

looks like the palestinian militants were attacking the israelis. how is that any different than the usual attacks by israelis on palestinians either by drones, helicopters or tanks? if you want to keep count, israel 'pulls a lot more crap' than these homemade bomb making militants. it's interesting seeing some people turn a blind eye to one side while they whine and complain about another.

do you mean after the US starts settling fanatical religious southern americans inside canada and then controls its borders and everything that goes in and out? lol @ pretending that its the rockets that is the symptom of the problem.

thank you for the useless post and confirming that you're a hypocrite who can't even keep count of your own hypocrisy in political issues.

so yeah, anyway, what you're saying is that they didn't accept it. i'm glad you learned something new.

wait and see? that's not what you and many others have done towards hamas. weren't you one of the people who bitched about not negotiating with hamas because they refuse to accept israel? didn't you support israel when they said they would never negotiate with hamas? it must get pretty greasy with all that hypocrisy dripping down every one of your posts.

wait a second, are you saying that israel accepted the UN partition plan?

i wonder if bc2004 and shady were upset when bush was running up the biggest debt created by any U.S. president while somehow reducing money spent on education. probably not.

it's funny how when hamas refuses to accept israel as a state some clowns throw their arms in the air and announce how hamas is not interested in negotiating and they should not be supported. but then you have israel refusing to accept a palestinian state and they continue to increase the illegal settlements and all of a sudden they're engaging in brilliant negotiating tactics. i'm glad to see bushcheney, is once again showing us how he's not one of those clowns.

i guess this indifference of yours helps you deal with the fact that, as an american, over $3billion/year of your tax money is going to another country and not to improve your infrastructure and education system.

huh? the situation in east jerusalem is about jews and arabs. you are trying to justify it. you're trying to excuse an obvious push by israel to rid east jerusalem of the palestinian population by saying it's due to "substandard housing" that the houses are being demolished while side-stepping the issue of the occupier's refusal to give building permits to the palestinains. you're not indifferent. don't lie.

uhm. we're talking about the arabs not being able to build houses in east jerusalem while the others (who happen to be jews) are able to. talking about the jews is sort of unavoidable, don't you think, dude? don't confuse indifference with making excuses and trying to justify something that is obviously wrong.

yep. it's all because of the inspections! not because they're not jews! more denial. still refusing to admit it. for a guy who is all about no bullshit, open and honest discussion, you sure side-step a lot of issues.

and the housing permits? more than half of the east jerusalem population is arab, yet, they can only use 10% of the land. hm. something is a little fishy here and i'm not talking about your constant refusal to admit wrong doings by israel.