PoliticalCitizen

I hope this doesn't come as a shock, August, but a big part of the world is sure the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated by US to have a pretext to unleash its "War on Terror" (should I say "War on Reason"? or "War for Oil"?)

Hehehe They are both beings. One classifies as human. The other... hmmm... a meat puppet? Have you seen an interview given by Bush Jr.? Do you think he would be able to understand a question in English? How about answer it?

Delivering "Vigurous Humanitarian Aid" using warships? Hmmm.. Right. Well "Goods" delivered - get out

And the West is aware they're no match for Russia on Russia's home turf.

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29622 August 28, 2008, 18:22 Russia tests intercontinental missile in Kamchatka Russia has successfully tested an intercontinental ballistic missile. The country's Defence Ministry has reported that it hit the target on the testing ground in the far eastern region of Kamchatka. The Ministry claims the weapon is capable of bypassing the most advanced missile defence systems. Although it has been on stand-by for 21 years, the Ministry said the weapon has shown it can effectively hit high-security facilities.

I'm not trying to refute anything. Russia needs no excuse for its actions, and in the long run will be praised for saving 2 ethnic groups from slaugter. The point of my post was that even though everybody keeps saying "We don't want another Cold War" they are trying their hardest to do exactly that, and maybe even more. What is up with the concentration of NATO ships in the Black Sea? They have no business being there. Is NATO really trying to THREATEN Russia militarily? And are you, critics of Russian politics, OK with that?

That was the case with Soviet Union, not Russia. Hey, that sleazy CNN reporter who got an exclusive interview from Putin himself but chose to share with you only about 5% of it is still alive, isn't he?

Since the numbers are being disputed I'll just say the plan was to kill enough to make the others flee, possibly to kill as much as they can.

It would seem that CNN considers you an imbecile. How else can you explain the fact that you were given less than 5% of an EXCLUSIVE interview obtained from a leader of a nation? Of course, you would not be able to discern lies from the truth on your own, so CNN helps you by feeding you their commentaries instead of what was actually said. The West should be grateful that they are given a different point of view directly by a leader who the West was trying their hardest to antagonize and paint evil for a very long time, especially the last 3 weeks. I am AMAZED that I cannot find the full text of the interview in English. I'll give you a link to the Russian version - mostly just to look at the size and some dates mentioned during the interview: http://www.rian.ru/politics/20080828/150771441.html The best partial translation I could find is here: http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29626 If hope be able to find a full English translation in the next couple of days.

I guess you guys were right saying that Russian "brutes" and "thugs" know nothing about diplomacy. Indeed, they have a lot to learn from the West - just check out the monumental peace efforts below: 1) Bush may (or already is) provide Georgia with Stinger and Javelin missles: WASHINGTON, Aug 27 (Reuters) - U.S. military planners have begun pondering the thorny question of how Georgia's shattered armed forces might be rebuilt without provoking a Russian backlash that could risk direct confrontation with Moscow.... NO 'FREE RIDE' FOR RUSSIA Some analysts say the Bush administration could deter further Russian action by quickly sending sophisticated Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and portable anti-tank guided-missile systems known as Javelins to Georgia... 2) Miliband is working to build an Anti-Russian alliance, starting with Ukraine: BBC: UK urges tough response to Russia UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband has called on the EU and Nato to initiate "hard-headed engagement" with Russia in response to its actions in Georgia. In a speech in Ukraine's capital, Kiev, he urged them to bolster their allies, rebalance the energy relationship with Russia and defend international law. 3) McCain is ready to free Chechnya: IA Regnum reports that Senator McCain, after hearing about Russia’s recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states, said today that Western states should now think seriously about the independence of the North Caucasus and Chechnya. “I think in the next week or so we will have a serious discussion about this. Russia accuses the West of double standards. We also accuse the Kremlin of double standards when it comes to Chechnya and the North Caucasus.” Yes, there's still a lot to learn about fine diplomacy...

No, BC. The ones that are emmigrating do so by choice. The ones that are stranded in a republic turned country may be opressed or considered second-class under the new rulers (as is the case for the Russians in the Baltic states). What can they do? The best they can hope is to get a Russian passport and move to Russia. "Peaceful" ethnic cleansing, forced reverse osmosis.

Ukrainian source: http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-269509.html "Fire broke out at ammunition depot in Kharkiv Oblast A fire broke out at an ammunition depot of the Southern Operations Headquarters of the Ukraine Armed Forces situated near Lozova city of the Kharkiv Oblast on Wednesday. The evacuation of residents of the local military town has started. According to an UNIAN’s sources from law-enforcement agencies, the fire broke out at 16.30. According to the information of the source, the fire spread over from grass to open ammunition depots, where there are kept 90 thousand tons of ammunition, including 80-mm mines and 150-mm missiles. The situation is aggravated due to the hot weather and strong winds. At present, only two fire tanks are operating at the scene, others have not arrived as yet." Coincidence?

What are you referring to? Wikipedia: According to the Constitution, which was adopted by national referendum on 12 December 1993 following the 1993 Russian constitutional crisis, Russia is a federation and formally a semi-presidential republic, wherein the President is the head of state[85] and the Prime Minister is the head of government. The Russian Federation is fundamentally structured as a representative democracy. Executive power is exercised by the government.[86] Legislative power is vested in the two chambers of the Federal Assembly.[87] The government is regulated by a system of checks and balances defined by the Constitution of the Russian Federation, which serves as the country's supreme legal document and as a social contract for the people of the Russian Federation. It's one of the younger democracies but even the established ones kill someone inconvenient every once in a while (Kennedy). Your statement reflects the ass-backwards image that Western mass media has been sucessfully projecting. The 2 regions were Autonomous before first Georgian president Gamsakhurdia "dissolved" them thus igniting the civil war. Georgia has NEVER controlled these 2 regions. Georigian "unification" solution was to exterminate the indigenous population. Russia offered Abkhazians and Ossetians citizenship to give them some kind of protection as well as a posibility to find refuge in Russia.

Another nice long post from you. I think I have a pretty good understanding of your points of view now. Even though the conflict may be interpreted as "about oil" the major Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline (1mln b/day) does not pass through the break-away regions (the closest it gets is 55 km to the South Ossetian border). Since Russia is not annexing the break-away regions and even less - Georgia, the pipeline will be just fine after the conflict. Oh, the map that you checked - you may need to check it again in a couple of months or so. After the recognition of the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia by Russia Georgia will be attacking another country if they try to "re-unite" again. And the retaliation will be much more powerful than this time. Saakashvili already has a bad haircut, he just needs the little mustache to look like the micro-Hitler he is Medvedev said there are 25 million Russians that ended up locked in foreign countries after the break-up of USSR. Most of them are probably in Ukraine (Krimea was never really "Ukrainian"). So yeah, it is a clear message - you f*ck with our citizens - we f*ck you up real good and let the West watch madly and helplessly as you're hung out to dry... I just HOPE Ukraine got the lesson...

Right. All that's left is to find another BS link that shows WMD found in Iraq. BTW, check out this masterpiece: http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358 Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia DEBKAfile Exclusive Report August 8, 2008 Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax. Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a “military response.” Former Soviet Georgia called up its military reserves after Russian warplanes bombed its new positions in the renegade province. In Moscow’s first response to the fall of Tskhinvali, president Dimitry Medvedev ordered the Russian army to prepare for a national emergency after calling the UN Security Council into emergency session early Friday. Reinforcements were rushed to the Russian “peacekeeping force” present in the region to support the separatists. Georgian tanks entered the capital after heavy overnight heavy aerial strikes, in which dozens of people were killed. Lado Gurgenidze, Georgia's prime minister, said on Friday that Georgia will continue its military operation in South Ossetia until a "durable peace" is reached. "As soon as a durable peace takes hold we need to move forward with dialogue and peaceful negotiations." DEBKAfile’s geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region. The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines. Saakashvili need only back away from this plan for Moscow to ditch the two provinces’ revolt against Tbilisi. As long as he sticks to his guns, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will wage separatist wars. DEBKAfile discloses Israel’s interest in the conflict from its exclusive military sources: Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean. Aware of Moscow’s sensitivity on the oil question, Israel offered Russia a stake in the project but was rejected. Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel. These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday. In recent weeks, Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia, finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was “defensive.” This has not gone down well in the Kremlin. Therefore, as the military crisis intensifies in South Ossetia, Moscow may be expected to punish Israel for its intervention.

A very interesting and detailed speach explaining your views, Rue, thank you for that. Contrary to your beliefs you will find that in a guerilla war the indigenous population usually wins. Who do you think you're fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq? Afghanis and Iraqis. Who do you think Russia fought in Chechnya? Chechens. Not Taliban or "Terror", or terrorists, or Muslim extremists or any other notions that were used. In the end indigenous people prevails if not fully exterminated or displaced. I disagree about the Mob part. Putin took from the Mob some of what was stolen during the "Privatization" and gave back to the State. I could also argue that US is run by the mob / military complex and only using "Democracy" and "Freedom" as a ruse. In fact, it is not even trying too mask the true nature of the power that hard anymore - it is being inherited by a stupid son from a mediocre father with the help of a brother... or from frisky husband to ice-cold wife... Obviously, none of these candidates were selected by the people. They were selected by money and relations, just like in a Monarchy. Russia is extremely lucky that after a rotten drunk the power got into the hands of a strong leader. I still regard China as a better model… but we are different people. Russians like more freedom than Chinese, they are less obedient. That’s why Putin, as I said before, has to walk a thin line between an authoritarian ruler and a “Democratically Elected” Prime Minister. Oil, huh? So we’re in the same boat then? Except Russia did not attack Georgia but stepped in to protect its citizens from genocide. A much nobler pretext than “WMD”, don’t you find? Oh, and you see someone can actually TALK to Iran, not just threaten it (which is the only foreign policy method Bush's administration appears to possess)? My first remark is off-topic and we can continue discussing it in another thread if you wish: The only "constellation" that Israel could be placed in is the Apartheid constellation, right up there with the US, South Africa and Nazi Germany. Not only Russia “knows” where to place itself – it is already very well placed on world’s largest piece of land and in good position to sell its military technology and natural products to the whole of Eurasia. Russia’s infrastructure is well ahead of Chinese (still mostly a rural country) and light-years ahead of Indian (which doesn’t exist). “Foreplay” as in “Why don’t you get raped for a few decades, eventually you’ll start enjoying our relationship” kind of deal? The “elaborate webs of international corporate networks” is a western approach. Chinese approach is state company buys your “intricate networks” deal at a wholesale price. Russian approach is a few oligarchs buy big stakes in whatever they like (Magna corporation, for example). Each has their methods. Calling Russians “brutes” and “thugs” doesn’t help us love each other… Everyone is subject to material goods addiction, but to a different degree. Americans have been blind to their 10 Trillion in national debt as they fight the “War on Terror”. Russians may be blind to the economic abyss that the fallout from the Georgian war may bring. Vice approach is working very well for Afghanistan with their Heroin Superstar status. I am pretty sure that scientists could come up with a drug that has minimal side-effects with a maximal “high” effect (kind of like ecstasy). Maybe they already did… And a certain country that doesn’t have the fake moral scruples (jailtime for ganja) of most western countries could legalize and export it… Wouldn’t be so “American” anymore, would it? And I need to get back to my bottle of vodka, beating my wife and shooting posters of Bush and Saakashvili in the basement... I'm glad to see you keep your sense of humor. But we also need to get rid of our stereotypes. Cheers!

LOL Are you trying to teach me Socialism, Rue? What I meant is the way China handled the transition from a dysfunctional “Socialist economy” that had no chance to a very successful Capitalist economy in an intelligently planned, gracefully organized way that was very much unlike drunk Eltsin’s “Steal what you can while you can!” privatization of national goods that happened in Russia. Tell Hugo his country can get Russian rockets deployed now due to a change in climate

From Russia Today: Medvedev exclusive: We’re not afraid of Cold War With the Russian parliament backing the independence of the breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, President Dmitry Medvedev gives his views on the issue in an exclusive interview with RT. RT: Immediately after Kosovo’s independence was recognised, Moscow said this could become a precedent for South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Today, you made a decision to support these republics’ independence. Why did Russia do it? Does this square with international law? Medvedev: I'll start with your second question. This is fully in line with international law. When the case of Kosovo arose, my colleagues said this was a special case, or, as experts in international affairs say, casus sui generis. Well, each case of such recognition is a special case. The situation in Kosovo was special, and the situation in South Ossetia and Abkhazia is special as well. In our situation, it is quite obvious that we made this decision in order to prevent genocide and annihilation of these peoples, and to help them to come to their feet. These unrecognised republics have been struggling for their independence for seventeen years now. Despite all attempts by the international community, no progress was made during this time. Until just recently, we tried to help restore the state unite of Georgia. However, it didn’t work. The decision to launch an aggression buried all hopes of achieving an agreement. Thus, under current circumstances, the only way to preserve these peoples is to recognise them as subjects of international law, to recognize their state independence. That is why our decision is fully in line with international law, the UN Charter, Helsinki declarations and other international documents. RT: Is Russia prepared for a long and tough confrontation with leading world powers that the decision it made today may lead to? And, in general, aren’t we afraid of the prospect to enter another Cold War? Medvedev: We are not afraid of anything, the prospect of another Cold War included. Of course, we don't want that. In this situation, everything depends on the stand of our partners in the world community, our partners in the West. If they want to preserve good relations with Russia, they will understand the reason for making such a decision, and the situation will be calm. But if they choose a confrontational scenario, well, we‘ve been through all kinds of situations, and we’ll survive. RT: You have signed the six-point agreement. One of the points says Russia should pull its troops out of Georgia. Nevertheless, Russia is still being accused of not meeting this obligation. Is this true? Are there Russian troops left in Georgia? Medvedev: That's not true. Russia has fully met its obligations stemming from the six principles of the so-called Medvedev-Sarkozi agreement. Our troops have been withdrawn from Georgia, except for the so-called security corridor. RT: The presidential campaign is underway in the US. Both candidates have spoken more than once on Russia’s actions in Georgia. Don’t you think this situation is being used as an instrument for the political struggle inside the US? Medvedev: Well, as far as I know, usually during the elections in the United States of America, voters are quite indifferent to what is happening abroad. But if one of the candidates managed to use this question, well, godspeed him. The main thing is that it should not lead to international tensions. I have no doubt that both candidates will try to spin this situation for his purposes. But such are the rules of the election campaign.

Medvedev's full speach and commentaries published by Russia Today: Medvedev backs independence for Abkhazia and South Ossetia Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has declared that Russia will recognise the independence of Georgia’s breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. He made the announcement in Sochi following a unanimous vote for the republics’ independence by both houses of the Russian Parliament in Moscow on Monday. “We are all well aware of South Ossetia’s tragedy. The night shelling of Tskhinvali by the Georgian troops led to the deaths of thousands of civilians. Russian peacekeepers have died, but they did everything they could to protect the civilian population," Medvedev said in the announcement. “The Georgian government - breaking UN regulations and its obligations to the international community, running counter to common sense - started a military conflict which claimed many civilians’ lives. Tbilisi must have planned to carry out a ‘blitzkrieg’ and chose the most inhumane way to annex South Ossetia – by destroying its whole population.” Medvedev believes it can now be clearly seen that a peaceful resolution of the conflict was not in Tbilisi’s plans. “The Georgian leadership was getting ready for war step by step,” he said. “And on the night of August 8, 2008, Tbilisi made its choice. Saakashvili chose genocide as a means to solve his political tasks. Doing this, he destroyed with his own hands all hopes for the peaceful living of South Ossetians, Abkhazians and Georgians as part of one state.” “We understand that after what had happened in Tskhinvali, and what was planned to be done in Abkhazia, these people have a right to resolve their fates themselves. Presidents of both republics - basing their policies on the results of referendums and the decisions of the republics’ parliaments - turned to Russia, asking us to recognise the sovereignty of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. “The Federation Council and the State Duma of the Russian Federation voted in favour of these applications. “We respect the free will of the South Ossetian and Abkhazian people, and basing our actions on international regulations and documents, I have signed an order to recognise the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia by the Russian Federation. Russia is also calling on other states to follow suit.” Hard road to independence South Ossetia, which borders Russia in the south Caucasus, and Abkhazia on the Black Sea, had previously attempted to break away from Georgia following referendums which were overwhelmingly in favour of independence. The results were ignored by Tbilisi, which claimed the ethnic Georgians forced to flee the regions were not consulted. The recent conflict in South Ossetia has added further urgency to the demands for self-determination. The roots of the current discord can be traced back to the divide and conquer policies of Joseph Stalin - himself half Georgian, half Ossetian. Before the 1917 revolution, the ethnic groups of the Caucasus all lived as separate subjects of the Russian empire. However, with the Bolsheviks came the redrawing of the map, with both South Ossetia and Abkhazia becoming parts of Georgia. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the then Georgian leader Zviad Gamsakhurdia advocated a nationalist "Georgia for the Georgians" policy, re-opening old wounds. Two military conflicts followed, leaving thousands dead and forcing many more to flee the conflict zones. The ceasefire in the early 1990s brought de-facto independence to both regions with the shaky truce maintained by peacekeeping forces of mainly Russian troops. Since becoming president in 2004, Mikhail Saakashvili has pledged to bring his country closer to the West, which has also motivated his drive to end the territorial disputes. Ossetians and Georgians have lived side by side for centuries. The two groups share Soviet history and the Orthodox Christian religion and intermarriage is common. But the ties that once bound their cultures have been severely damaged in the trauma of the recent fighting. Kosovo's self-declared independence in February, too, has boosted these regions' ambitions. Most Abkhazians and South Ossetians carry Russian passports and the only valid currency is the Russian rouble. In addition, both self-declared republics have presidents, flags and national anthems.

Medvedev just said in an interview that there will be no negative consequences for Russia if the NATO - Russia relationship disappears. He said that during this relation Russia was continuously told not to worry while NATO kept absorbing countries and building military bases closer and closer to its borders.

Well, it looks like the Talibanis are getting better at killing our soldiers... after so many years of practice..

I'm sorry to disappoint you but the Lada (Jiguli) design was stolen from the Italians...

You must have Communism confused with Autoritarianism - and it's a common mistake because history has shown that the countries that tried to "Take Heaven by force" ended up with totalitarian governments. But think about it: once we put the Capitalist "morals" behind and begin to genetically engineer humans (what I'm sure China is working on already - they have plenty of raw material) - the Earth will be populated with smart, healthy and beautifull people, and each will be happy to perform the role assigned to them.

Kobe Bryant? Or Yao Ming? Vlad the Impaler was Wallachian (ancient Romanian, not Russian) and will forever be remembered as Dracula

You may be right... they believed human nature can be changed. I guess they were wrong about the timeline... add a few millenia... Why it has worked for a limited period of time in Russia is (my personal belief) because the Communist Party succeded in replacing religion with the idea of Communism. So simple people lost the biblical paradise and gained the belief in a "better future". Only that future proved to be like the horizon - virtually unreachable, at least not by the means they had at their disposal. With the advances in robotics the dream may still get a chance...