PoliticalCitizen

I think the real question here is: What would it take for the West (NATO or another "Coalition of the Willing") to go to war with Russia? We have a relations freeze, threats of economic sanctions (empty so far), missle shield in Poland and military presence in Black Sea. What's next?

http://www.president.gov.ge/?l=E&m=0&a...=70&id=1843 "Today we are laying foundation for the monument which will become the symbol of the development of Georgia and Adjara. It will be a symbol demonstrating that no one will ever manage to separate Adjara from the rest of Georgia neither in this century nor in the centuries to come. Today we are laying foundation for the monument which will symbolize the road and the beacon which will return all of us to Abkhazia, which will unite us and which will continue the similar processes in Sokhumi. This monument will be a symbol of Adjara in a free, united and happy Georgia." Well, if Georgians continue propagating the same "brotherly love" that they have shown to Ossetians and Abkhazians then Adjarians will consider getting Russian passports too And then Saakashvili and NATO can kiss Batumi good-bye

Nah, I think the Polish and West-Ukrainians beat everybody else at hating and fearing Russia. I bet they could still teach you a few things... Georgia chose to join Russian Empire because they were afraid that the Ottoman Empire would be even worse. Now Georgia is trying to join the American Empire and attempts to drag other nations with it... Don't forget that your "5-year-old" kid tried to strangle a "3-months-old" infant, so damn sure he deserves a beating, and you should be grateful he got off easy (no broken bones). But you would probably not leave the baby in the same house with the stupid 5-year old again. Oh, and US with its imperialistic strategies is VERY far from being a "World Police". As a matter of fact, after this conflict they have gone "morally bankrupt" - a fact that many European leaders began to realize. Abkhazia and South Ossetia are not mine or yours or anybody else's. They are independent countries now, wheter you and the NATO war-mongering masterminds like it or not Have you heard of www.ingushetia.ru? Do you know what happened to it? I do not use personal attacks or insults as a part of my arguments. If you want to be respected you should avoid that as well.

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a "Dominion" anyway?

Oh, I see... Did we or could we get a referendum to get rid of "Constitutional Monarchy"? Or at least get Monarch of our own (King of Canada, anyone?) I read the Gov. General spent over 1 Mil of taxpayer's money on international travel... or am I wrong and she's sponsored by the Queen of England?

I may be missing a whole layer of political knowledge here, but please help me understand why do we have a Governor General who also appears to be "Commander-in-Chief of Canada"? My understanding was Canada is no longer a colony and even less - a Monarchy. Why do we spend tax money on maintaining political structure dedicated to a foreign country's Monarch? And why is the Monarch's image on our money? Now I'm no history expert but I'm pretty sure USA (a former British colony) has none of that... Should Canada step above its colonial past and promote its own values as a multinational country? I hope I'm not offending anybody's feelings but some things just strike me as illogical...

Guys, if we're in for the kills why don't just nuke the hell out of them? Level all American enemies, wait for the radiation to dissipate and then re-populate with peace-loving tribes (Jews, for example ). But weren't we looking for Osama in Afghanistan (any luck with that?) and WMD in Iraq? Or no, wait, we went in to remove the EVIL Taliban and EVIL Dictator Hussein and install GOOD Democracy. Well, 2 countries down, around 150 or so more to go... Or is it?

Of course, our "temperamental" brothers - the Latvians They were trying to teach Moldovans Rusophobia too - that didn't work - but it looks like they more than succeeded in Georgia. As soon as Soviet Union fell apart I remember one of their political leader's speach in Moldova. It was in Russian and started like this: "Excuse me for speaking in the language of the occupants..." Don't you just LOVE our little faschist wanna-be friends? I think there's much more love in Germany that was defeated by the Soviets (disclaimer: and Allies). Here's what Georgian People’s Artist Vakhtang Kikabidze, who has sung in Russian forever and is loved by all former Soviet people said (after refusing a "Friendship" order): "At first I thought Russian Army will limit itself with the conflict zone, but when they spread almost over the entire Georgia I understood: the Russians have started this barbarian war on purpose. We must somehow finish with this country (Russia). The West must help us with this..." Well, good luck finishing off Russia Oh, and guess what - the West is not coming... Naturally. Hand South Ossetia over to Georgia on a silver plate, saying: "Please kill our citizens. They are stupid Ossetians that we don't need anyway. Oh by the way - please take Abkhazia and clean it up as well". Saakashvili HATED? Oh please... Hitler was hated. "SuckMyShvili" is a goddam joke! His campaign of disinformation and delusions of grandeur ("The fate of free world is decided here!" lol) can only be compared to Iraqi Minister of Information - the all-time star. I think you got your polarity reversed... Russia has kept Caucasus stable for hundreds of years and will continue doing so despite USA's efforts to de-stabilize the region. Nobody's equal. Especially "the rest of the world" as it's referred to in US. America Uber Alles... Lead, follow, or get out of the way... Well, guess what - your American friends found Russia in their way to global domination... and the Russians are not getting out... Oh boy... Where do you find these obscure sites? In the Pribaltic edition of the Rusophob web directory? Or is it the Polish version? Oh, Kaisa, you can't insult me... but trying to do so doesn't serve you well...

You got it

Radio was invented by Popov. Telephone was invented in Cuba by Antonio Meucci. What was invented by Poles? hmmm... Oh, I know - they've re-invented Rusophobia

See AK-103 being fired: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwnM_0RxETg...feature=related And an AK-105: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8xHODGRQq0

After so much brainwashing of the media sponsored by the US military complex I wouldn't expect a different opinion. I'm not sure if you realize it but the AK47 was introduced in 1947. The starndard-issue rifle Russian (as well as many other) army uses is the AK 74 family. Again, as the name suggests, it was introduced in 1974... must be junk, right? Right... see the post above... I'm sure Europeans would say Eurofighter 2000 is better, Russians would say SU-37. Did it do anything memorable besides dumping Agent Orange on Vietnam? And Russian soldier is more ANGRY

Interesting post, lots of information... I didn't know about the Chobham armour... I'm sorry to do that to you but being no expert I have to rely on information found on the web, and here's a fragment of a similar discussion on www.defensetech.org (where military hardware geeks meet ): http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004021.html "So let's take a close look then at some of your last post's completely disconnected "points" (were you just mud-slinging at Russia's military technology while simultaneously exulting at the U.S.A.'s, without any logical relationship to any previous contexts? Please, spare me in the future of witnessing such apoplexy attacks) : "how about the Russia that has India complaining about T-90 missile and thermal imagery systems," Oh, I see. So Russian tanks (international best-sellers) are scarp iron. People are just too dumb to see it. And this coming from an U.S. American whose country had to include the latest armour types, matérials, ammunitions, sensors and performances etc. in its new "Abrams" tanks exactly to anticipate and to counter the threat of the latest Soviet / Russian generations of T-84 and T-90 tanks, after which it nevertheless didn't manage to export A SINGLE "Abrams" even to its direct neighbour countries (all the other N.A.T.O. countries including Canada made some tank evaluations of their own, after which they invariably chose the superior and cheaper "Leopard II" instead) ! The U.S. Military ITSELF was still pondering mass-producing the "Leopard II"s even as the first "Abrams" UNWANTED BY THEM already rolled off the assembly lines! The embarassing "Abrams" tank was O-N-L-Y invented to keep "Chrysler" finantially afloat, because it couldn't down-size its 2-ton car models and reduce their fuel consumptions, after the protectionist dam around the Japanese cars broke! Then the U.S. Armed Forces committed the embarassing mistake of "comparing" their proud "Abrams" tank (whose first prototypes could only drive in reverse gear, no kidding!) to such an international sales hit like the "Leopard II", seeking this opportunity to impress the ignorant masses with their "technocratic" and "objective" selection criteria, thinking that the involved U.S. American companies had a good initial success chance. In the end they had to rig the whole comparison so scandalously as to 1) COMPLETELY strip the "Leopard II" tanks ("Austere Version"), but NOT the "Abrams" tanks 2) directly equal unequal criteria like for example the "conformity of transport waggons for the 'Abrams' tanks to U.S. American rail gauge standards" to the "Leopard II"'s superior on-the-move first-hit-capability - and even this with the aforementioned simplified fire control system 3) simply halve the real effectiveness of the "Leopard II"'s armour 4) decide the selection criteria only AFTER the test, etc., so that the "Abrams" tank even had a remote chance to "win" - at least inside the U.S.A.! Small wonder that every other N.A.T.O. country WITHOUT EXCEPTION preferred the "Leopard II" over the "Abrams", after making only a few quick side-by-side tests! Another such example of unabashed U.S. corruption was the U.S. Airforces's international "Joint Service Small Arms Program" in 1979, which sought replacement for the 1908-vintage Browning's .45 calibre "M1911 A1" pistol. After we super-pacifistic Europeans taught you hill-billy cowboys for the first time in your lives what real pistols looked like it was cancelled too under heinously false pretenses! Interiorize this: ONLY Russians + Germans (which are traditionally two continental powers, not naval powers nor air powers) know how to build tanks. ALL other countries' "tanks" (pah...) occupy the bottom of that food chain" I used it because I think the guy who wrote it shares my sentiments and appears to be a European who knows a lot more about the subject than myself.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...ms-tank-a_x.htm There were losses before: "In the all-out battles of the 1991 Gulf War, only 18 Abrams tanks were lost and no soldiers in them killed." FYI, the Iraqi army was using tank shells that USSR de-comissioned in 1973... and they still managed to take some Abrams out... There's a lot more losses now: But since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, with tanks in daily combat against the unexpectedly fierce insurgency, the Army says 80 of the 69-ton behemoths have been damaged so badly they had to be shipped back to the United States. Uh-oh... not so invincible, are we? I haven't found any reports of destroyed T-90s... let me know if you find any...

To answer all the smart-ass comments above: I think I have an idea what Putin was hinting at - blocking NATO transit routes via Russian land to Afghanistan. Oh - the arrival of Dick C. and the 6th Fleet's MOCC into Georgia doesn't help the loving feelings...

Sorry, Rue, I didn't mean to insult you or anybody. My comment was aimed at a couple of hotshots who only posted in this thread to express their hate (fear?) towards the Russians. Please don't take my choice of words as an offence.

I did agree with you. The army generals have admitted that the airstrikes were not timely and sometimes were off because the infantry on the ground could not call them directly as the Airforce is under a separate chain of command. They've got to get rid of Soviet "rigidity", and that goes for more than just the army...

I think you're right - that explains the poor airstrike performance of the Russian army during the brief Georgian conflict... they should work on that It looks like you're right again - it looks like this particular plane doesn't have a "same or better" match... but then some of the Russian anti-aicraft do not have a match on the American side either (Tunguska). I wasn't trying to prove that M1A is crap as I don't believe it is. I think Merkava Mk4 is better but nothing is invincible... I was trying to prove it doesn't drive well on all terrains and that it was fighting T-72s, not 90s. If you just step back for a second and look at the big picture you will see that for a country that is at least 10 times poorer than US and many more times poorer than EU, with a total population of only 140 million it is remarkable that it has ITS OWN military hardware of all kinds that is compareable to NATO's. Well, of course there's Israel with only 7 million people and its own military hardware....

As all of you may have read - so far Russia got a "slap on the wrist" from the EU summit. Let's see what happens next...

Latest development - Putin said there will be a response to NATO concentrating warships in the Black Sea. When asked: "What the response will be?" he just said: "You'll see..." Also Medvedev confirmed that Russia is planning a response to the anti-missle defense in Czechia - Poland. He said that Russia has already let NATO advance far enough without an adequate response, based on "good will" attitude... not anymore.

A10? What kind of tank is that? About the command structure - I'm sorry, but your intelligence appears to be 60 years old... Besides, relying too much on satelites is good... when fighting poor little countries with lots of oil but no anti-satellite abilities...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...pment-intro.htm "A story illustrating DU's offensive and defensive renown involves an M1A1 "Heavy Armor" tank that had become mired in the mud. The unit (part of the 24th Infantry Division) had gone on, leaving this tank to wait for a recovery vehicle. Three T-72's appeared and attacked. The first fired from under 1,000 meters, scoring a hit with a shaped-charge (high explosive) round on the M1A1's frontal armor. The hit did no damage. The M1A1 fired a 120mm armor-piercing round that penetrated the T-72 turret, causing an explosion that blew the turret into the air. The second T-72 fired another shaped-charge round, hit the frontal armor, and did no damage. This T-72 turned to run, and took a 120mm round in the engine compartment and blew the engine into the air. The last T-72 fired a solid shot (sabot) round from 400 meters. This left a groove in the M1A1's frontal armor and bounced off. The T-72 then backed up behind a sand berm and was completely concealed from view. The M1A1 depressed its gun and put a sabot round through the berm, into the T-72, causing an explosion." That's what they are to this day in Iraq - "mired in the mud"... Heavy is not always good - the Faschists have learned it over 60 years ago... But honestly, guys - I admire your patriotism and zeal, but don't trust me - do some research on the web (American DoD invention - you trust it, right ). What you will find is that most Russian military hardware is at least compareable to NATO's and some is superior. That includes planes, tanks, subs, etc.

Angus, I was expecting better knowledge from you as the "expert" military hardware guy. First Gulf War? Are you kidding me? Those were T-72s operated by Iraqis... The vainglorious NATO hasn't even sniffed a T90 yet...

Be that as it may, he's the only power in Chechnya right now... so if McCain whants to talk to someone there - it would have to be Ramzan.

LOL That's exactly what I'm talking about... Supremacy complex... T90s are just as junk as the M1s - not much better, not much worse... probaly quite a bit cheaper. I wonder if US will send Saakashvili a few Abrams as part of the "Humanitarian aid" - then you'll see how long they last