PoliticalCitizen

Kaisa, I do not hate Georgians or the country of Georgia, and just for you to know - I'm not Russian. Because you see me as the "enemy" I do not think you want to hear any other arguments from me as they will be "propaganda" and "lies" to you, so let's just each keep our position. I think we would need an Ossetian or an Abkhazian on this board to have the "moral right" to question your arguments and express "real" emotions on the situation...

For the purpose of this statement it doesn't matter - it is meant for the West.

I know what I read and I read it multiple times in Russian news. As you probably know - as of today not even Russia has recognized South Ossetia's or Abkhazia's independence. The strong words mean that there will be Russian military presence in both until their rights to self-determination are progressed according to existing European and international laws and agreements, which was not done for Kosovo. Just watch the events unfold - I'm pretty sure under the world's scrutiny Russia will not go against its words...

Sorry, not sure what you're trying to say... My point was - regardless of my political opinions I feel compassion for all victims of war on all sides... especially civilians... I am unaware of the term "Genocide" used by Russians prior to the massive Georgian attack on South Ossetia. As to the Russian actions in Georgia right now - they are not killing anyone, they are dismantling, destroying and re-possessing military bases and hardware. As Kosovo appears to prove - people are more important than the land... Sounds like a humane principle... But I'm pretty sure that in both cases these people only got their self-determination right upheld because a greater power was on their side. You're right, even proportionally Russia has a much bigger army. But Russia also has much larger borders and probably more potential enemies, too... and a chance to put up a battle. There's no way Georgia's 28,000 soldiers had a chance against Russian army - so, as you admitted, the army must have been built to regain control of break-away regions by force. Now let's compare Georgia's 28,000 soldiers to South Ossetia's total population of 70,000... I think the picture is clear... As your first president Zviad Gamsakhurdia said: "Georgia for Georgians!" So I guess your point is to use them as a pre-text to invade Georgia... maybe you're right... most Abkhazians hold Russian passports too... and Russians own a big part of Abkhazian land... But imperialistic intentions aside - the Russan passports would still have given both ethnic groups the options of moving to Russia if nationalistic atrocities escalate. I dare US giving American passports to Chechens - WELCOME ALL OPPRESSED JIHAD WARRIORS! There were provocations on both South Ossetian and Georgian side prior to Georgian mass-murder of peace-keepers and civilians in Tshinval. The first thing I'd think of is where my allegiances lie? With a country and a people that we share a religion and hundreds of years of history or with a global empire that will use us as a pawn in their game of world domination. In other words, do I, as a President, want my nation to be manipulated by US to screw Russia and then be discarded as a used condom? "When there is a war the human losses are inevitable"... especially if you use multi-rocket systems "GRAD" against a city full of civilians at night without warning to maximize the number of kills... very inevitable... and then your special forces throw grenades into basements with women and children hiding from your bombing... inevitable indeed... Georgia reported 200 killed to date - hopefully most of them were soldiers... but not necessarily "Vano's" - it looks like Ukrainians and Pribalts joined in the righteous battle... As I said before - Russian forces in Georgian are not killing anyone now, just destroying military targets... There is something I'm sure noone wants - it is a repeat attack of Georgian military on South Ossetia or Abkhazia. I'm pretty sure the response will be much stronger than it was now...

You guys should try flying EL AL somethimes... then news like these will not seam outrageous... My Russian female friend took a trip to the holy land recently and I guess stood out of the crowd somehow... Oh boy was she given an unforgettable experience.... Right here at Pearson airport... they brought a mobile curtain to have her undress...

I did not mean to offend you in any way, just some of your original comments were made in a condescending tone. Also you are correct - I am not a history scolar. My point was that regardless of how small of how different the general American knowledge is about Russia, as a country it played an immense role in the history of Eurasia.

Actually a Russian economical analysis has shown that the opposite may be true: South Ossetia cannot be self-sufficient as a state and may opt for joining North Ossetia within Russian Federation. Abkhazia, on the other hand, has been self-sufficient for a while and will most likely opt to become an independent country.

Yes, there was an attack on 9/11... but it was not an aggression and even less an invasion...

Wow... that may be the worst anti-US rant I've read... I do not hate US and do not agree with the rant. You want to hear which national anthem is really brutal? French Marseillaise: "...Let their impure blood irrigate our furrows..." Jeez!

Interesting details and analysis, thanks. It does not change the fact that there was no real invasion of US or Canada. Of course, this fact compliments US military might. But it does not teach the voters who support war the real price of war...

Russia does not seek to annex South Ossetia or Abkhazia... Unlike Kosovo, they plan to follow the international laws and agreements in these regions self-determination cause.

Please, you don't want to get me started with Russian jokes about Georgians... As I'm sure you very well know they are FAR from flattering...

As you have probably noticed almost noone on this board sides with me. This doesn't prevent me from expressing my compassion to the victims of war. Ethnic cleansing was happening on all sides starting with the early 1990s: Ossetians got rid of Georgians in their region, Abkhazians got rid of Georgians in their region and Georgia got rid of both on the rest of its territory. Sadly, these people were either forced to leave or killed... But when I said "Genocide" I meant the onslaught of Georgian military on Tshinval. I'm pretty sure it was Georgian land... just like Kosovo was Serbian... Krimea was Russian... New Orleans was French... See above... atrocities happened on both sides... to the time of the start of the conflict the "cleansing" was complete on all sides... Did the Serbs in Kosovo have a right to say which country they want to be a part of? What about the Russians in Krimea? What about the Kurds? The poor guys don't even have a country... their land is split between Turkey, Iraq and Iran and they are hated in all 3... very sad... Both. My question to you is why does a country so small (4.5 million) have such a big and powerful army? Who were Georgians planning to fight? Russia? Or Ossetia and Abkhazia? I make no illusions about this: any country will first and foremost protect its interests. Maybe in part it was supposed to help South Ossetians move to North Ossetia (which many did). I'm pretty sure there were plenty of provocations on both sides. I know what I definitely woul NOT do - try to exterminate the separatists (for human reasons), especially backed by Russia (for self-preservation interests). But unfortunately Saakashvili may have gotten the impression Bush will send troops to protect Georgia... and I guess the question of slaughtering the South Ossetians was not against the principles of anyone involved in preparing and executing the attack... I believe part of the Russian agenda was destroying the Georgian military. Since the Georgian army fled, saving their lives (which is a good thing) Russians are trying to find and destroy any military bases and hardware they can find to at least somehow satisfy the hard-liners in Moscow. They are certainly not in a rush to leave...

I guess the American rules of engagement changed since 1987...

Of course. I'd be surprised if in the South militias are not mobilizing to protect Atlanta, GA from Russian invasion

Just because there are many murderers doesn't mean murdering is not against the law (or international law).

Invading a sovereign country that did not attack US or kill US citizens.

Then we should be happy he didn't confuse Iraq with Iran... the difference is just a letter...

Hey check this out - Abkhazia replaced Afganistan as the #1 country in the alphabetical list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries

The 2 exceptions you provided just reinforce my point. How many countries did US invade? There was no real war that US fought on its territory against a FOREIGN (as opposed to Motherland - UK) enemy force that would have killed civilians, destroyed cities, created concentration camps and sought full extermination for american people. This is why engaging in wars is so easy for US - they are always fought on "enemy" territory, it is the "enemy" civilians that are killed and displaced, "enemy" infrastructure... The only problem with that is the list of the "Enemies" or potential "Enemies" is growing and the NATO partners are dragged into US oil struggle... Some of them are saying no, so for Iraq it was "Coalition of the Willing" to commit a crime...

Just look at what happened in Kosovo... They were given that right but chose to invade neighboring regions...

1812 - US fighting UK and Canada is more like a civil war - people fighting same people speaking same language... very much unlike Germany invading USSR 1942 - Which part of US got invaded?

Typical American view on things. Most of the world tells them something (like "Don't attack Iraq!") but they fail to see how it is relevant.

1812 - isn't that when US invaded Canada? 1942 - US was attacked, not invaded. It is hard to appreciate the price of peace when you have not really experienced war.

To prove my point the details do not matter. More than half of all Canadians do not believe the official story on 9/11. I'm sure in other countries this number is even higher.