JB Globe

Absolute co-sign

Supporting oppression is not part of Jewish life. And no amount of kugel you eat makes up for it.

There was a link to a Ynet article on the study that I posted, and here's one from Ha'aretz The study itself is in Hebrew, there's no translated copy available but it has been referenced in lots of media outlets, Israeli and otherwise, and by a lot of Academics, again - both Israeli and non-Israeli. It was done by Geocartography, which is a major research/marketing company in Israel, and the Centre Against Racism is an Israeli organization as well. I assume you're going to get around the rest of my post at some point, yes?

If you clicked on the link than you'd have an answer. Even though many Sephardic Jews are Arab by ethnicity (they are Jews that immigrated to Israel from Arab countries), they don't refer to themselves as Arab, because Arab is often used in Israel as a pejorative. So when Israeli newspaper articles refer to "Arabs" they're specifically referring to Muslim Palestinians or other Arabs, and in this case those folks are citizens of Israel (you'll rarely hear non-liberal Israelis call them Israelis). You're correct in assuming that the main issue here is a Jew marrying a Muslim, even if that Jew is an atheist (as many Israelis are) and does many things that are against Jewish law like have pre-marital sex, eat pork, etc - apparently there is still a huge taboo about marrying people of Muslim heritage - and it's symbolic of the fact that this conflict has bred quite a lot of hatred on both sides of the conflict - Israel is not immune from this. Here are some more findings: A poll by the Center Against Racism (2008) found a worsening of Jewish citizens' perceptions of their Arab counterparts: 75% would not agree to live in a building with Arab residents. More than 60% wouldn't accept any Arab visitors at their homes. About 40% believed that Arabs should be stripped of the right to vote. More than 50% agree that the State should encourage emigration of Arab citizens to other countries More than 59% think that the culture of Arabs is a primitive culture. When asked "What do you feel when you hear people speaking Arabic?" 31% said they feel hate and 50% said they feel fear, with only 19% stating positive or neutral feelings. Considering the fact that to this day, there's only been a handful of incidents involving Arab-Israeli citizens committing any kind of violent acts, than it would seem to be irrational to fear Arab-Israelis. I think the racism comes into play when you look at society-wide discrimination and government polices that disadvantage Israeli-Arabs. And quite frankly - if you're going to criticize anti-semitism in Palestine and elsewhere so heavily, you can't turn around and brush off examples of racism in Israel. Personally, I'm against racism in all forms, even in countries I tend to otherwise like. As I showed earlier, from an Israeli news source, 75% of Israelis are opposed to inter-religious marriages. You won't find that in too many other "Liberal Western Democracies" I routinely check-in on all of the major dailies in Israel (Maariv, Ynet/Yedioth Ahronoth etc) when there is an issue like this to get a better picture. While some are not in English many 3rd party websites translate their articles for global consumption. I also read Ha'aretz because although it has small circulation it represents a very influential segment of the population - same thing with the Haredi Hamodia paper. What outlets are your primary sources for Israeli opinion? Because some of your statements about Israeli society strike me as going against truths that are not controversial and widely held by most Israelis . . . You only need to look at the Israeli Knesset to realize that Israel is in-fact divided along these lines, and that religious parties in particular have been steadily gaining influence over the years. This is a false argument. The fact is that Israel's polices re: Palestine and their domestic policies and social climate towards Israeli Arabs undermine their security, economy, and international reputation. Taking land away from Palestinians and putting religious zealots in their place who have to be guarded by the IDF doesn't make Israel safer. By the same token, discriminating against Israeli-Arabs and pushing them into ghettos and poverty doesn't make them less-likely to commit violent acts against the public. In fact, both actions make the situation worse. Perhaps you could explain to me how discriminatory laws against Arabs in Israel helps Israel's security situation? Or what specific laws/policies you're referring to? You're either being naive or disingenuous by trying to suggest that this is an isolated incident. The fact is, there is plenty of public information out there to suggest that discrimination against Israeli Arabs is commonplace in Israel, and this position isn't even a controversial one WITHIN ISRAEL . . . - Arab-Israelis account for 20% of the population yet over 50% of people below the poverty line. - Of the 40 towns in Israel with the worst unemployment 36 are Arab-majority towns. - Salary averages for Arab-Israelis are 26% lower than Jewish-Israelis that do the same jobs. - The numbers for Christian/Druze Arabs are much better than Muslim Arabs in Israel, suggesting that religious discrimination is the primary factor. - The Israeli Land Administration, which administers 93% of the land in Israel, will not lease land to non-Jewish Israelis. - Israeli Arabs make up only 5% of the civil service, and almost exclusively are in roles that involve dealing with other Arabs. - Building permits are rejected in higher numbers in Arab-Israeli neighbourhoods than in Jewish-Israeli ones. - In a classic study similar to ones found in America, Israeli researchers found that Arab-Israelis received much harsher sentences for crimes than their Jewish-Israeli counterparts, even when both had committed the same crime and had the same amount of priors. Well, I suppose unlike yourself I respect the analysis of a man who's lived through quite a lot in his life, has read more on this issue than any of us ever will, and is able to bring a sense of nuance to the situation that most people lack. I won't recount the whole rise-to-power of the religious right in Israel, but I will summarize: The birthrates of secular Jews (who tend to vote progressive) have declined since the 1970s much like their counterparts elsewhere in Europe. In the same time, birthrates among Orthodox and Hasidic Jews have risen substantially. In the late 90s these groups decided to make an organized push to capitalize on these numbers and gain influence in politics. Whereas before religious political parties were always fringe groups representing many different sects, many groups banded together, and significantly - previously purely religious groups and bodies began injecting politics into their organizations to become both religious groups and political groups at the same time. They first directed their attempts at municipal council because these bodies could enforce changes that would impact their members most directly - namely shutting down entire towns and cities on the Sabbath, banning certain kinds of dress and behaviour - segregating public spaces like buses based on gender. These election victories and subsequent changes emboldened zealots within the group and they started acting out - it is now not uncommon for women who do not wear orthodox clothing to be verbally and physically harassed in many neighbourhoods, because the groups of young thugs feel as though they own the area, because most officials are "their people". This has also extended towards treatment of Arab-Israelis, as many of these councils administer some neighbourhoods where they live, and have been slashing programs they use as well as turning a blind eye towards incidents such as that in Pisgat Ze'ev where groups of Jewish men would patrol the area looking for inter-mixed couples and harassing them, as well as intimidating women into not dating Arab men. This has also translated into big-gains at the national level in the past few years, where far-right religious parties have gotten a solid chunk of seats. Not coincidentally, the last few years have seen a record number (over 20 a year) of bills were proposed that would explicitly discriminate against non-Jews. Religious hardliners often split their votes between religious parties and far-right secular parties that nonetheless both have racist stances against Palestinians and Israeli-Arabs. Most obviously, we see the fact that a blatantly bigoted anti-Arab politican, Avigdor Lieberman, is currently the Deputy PM and leader of a far-right party. This would be like a blatantly racist Tea Party member becoming the American VP - it's very significant. For progressive Jews such as myself, this is all deeply troubling. And most of this information is widely known in Israel and not controversial. I can only speculate on why you seem so surprised about all of this to the point where you think that I'm making it up or exaggerating. In a deeply polarized conflict this shouldn't be too shocking that this kind of thing happens. And my main point is that discrimination is counter-productive and that Israel can and should do more to deal with it, but that this unconditional support that Canada and the US give Israel makes it easier for them to ignore the problem and go with the status-quo.

I haven't seen any polls yet, but it would make sense that if over 50% of Israelis thought that a marriage between a Jew and and Arab was national treason than a large chunk of the population would feel that this verdict is just. And judging from the columns and opinions on the more populist Israeli papers, it seems that this issue has split the population along familiar lines (liberal Israelis in one camp, religious and neo-con Israelis in the other). Also keep in mind that same poll about intermarriage found 75% of Israelis were opposed to living in the same apartment building as an Arab, which of course is significant when you consider Israel's policy of property rights when it comes to non-Jews, and you look at the ghettos that most Arabs live in. There clearly are significant problems within Israel of rampant discrimination, it might be better than in Syria, but I'm not one for setting standards low, especially when it comes to a nation that loves to flout it's "democratic values" and "liberalism" and which is Canada's closest ally next to the US. Israel needs to be held to a higher standard. Actually, the rise of religious fundamentalists in Israel is well-documented by many sources, including a large number of the top Israeli political analysts and journalists of Jewish background. This is not about some sort of smear campaign, it's about many people who care deeply about Israel who see a trend which threatens to destroy the democratic values of the state. Even my 90 year old Zaida sees this when he reads his daily mashup of Israeli papers - every time I see him he has a new story about those "zealots" This is pretty much old news for anyone who closely follows Israel - it started years ago when fundamentalists started taking over municipal seats, and now has gone up the chain and they've become a key part of Bibi's government.

I haven't seen any polls yet, but it would make sense that if over 50% of Israelis thought that a marriage between a Jew and and Arab was national treason than a large chunk of the population would feel that this verdict is just. And judging from the columns and opinions on the more populist Israeli papers, it seems that this issue has split the population along familiar lines (liberal Israelis in one camp, religious and neo-con Israelis in the other). Also keep in mind that same poll about intermarriage found 75% of Israelis were opposed to living in the same apartment building as an Arab, which of course is significant when you consider Israel's policy of property rights when it comes to non-Jews, and you look at the ghettos that most Arabs live in. There clearly are significant problems within Israel of rampant discrimination, it might be better than in Syria, but I'm not one for setting standards low, especially when it comes to a nation that loves to flout it's "democratic values" and "liberalism" and which is Canada's closest ally next to the US. Israel needs to be held to a higher standard. This isn't something that 'Israelis condone,' nor is it an example of 'what goes on in Israel' the way it's being presented. Actually, the rise of religious fundamentalists in Israel is well-documented by many sources, including a large number of the top Israeli political analysts and journalists of Jewish background. This is not about some sort of smear campaign, it's about many people who care deeply about Israel who see a trend which threatens to destroy the democratic values of the state. Even my 90 year old Zaida sees this when he reads his daily mashup of Israeli papers - every time I see him he has a new story about those "zealots" This is pretty much old news for anyone who closely follows Israel - it started years ago when fundamentalists started taking over municipal seats, and now has gone up the chain and they've become a key part of Bibi's government.

Israel and it's blind supporters like to compare Israel's bad behaviour to that of other Arab states, because it's bad behaviour isn't as bad as that of Syria or other states. At the same time, when Israel wants to congratulate itself, Israel constantly presents itself as a Liberal Western Democracy, but when you compare Israel's conduct to other nations in that category, it's clear that Israel is rather terrible. Many of the things that happen in Israel on a daily basis would be national disgraces and scandals in most European countries, the US, and Canada. Personally, I don't care if Israel is better than Arab states when it comes to human rights - if Israel wants to have Canada as a close ally, it needs to be held to a higher standard, otherwise we should put Israel in the same category as a state like Turkey - an strategic ally, but not one that we'd go out on a limb for. Also - things are getting worse in Israel in terms of human rights the more orthodox Israelis and religious zealots gain influence. ie - some areas that were fine a few years ago are now no-go areas for women who don't wear clothes to orthodox standard, lest they get verbally and physically harassed by groups of young Hasidic thugs.

First, the language has been pretty consistent with past administration's language - reserved and tempered. Which considering Israel is embarking on a path that could threaten either it's Jewish or democratic status, would seem to be too soft. The US needs to be more firm in what it wants from Israel, and when it expects delivery - and if Israel continues to go down this path it's own, the US needs to start to suggest that it's going to reconsider things like automatically vetoing UN resolutions against Israel, economic aid, and other benefits - because this is what the US would do with ANY OTHER COUNTRY that was behaving this way. And even though the language has been pretty soft, that still hasn't stopped the vast majority of Israelis from thinking that Obama is against Israel, and is actually Muslim. The expectations from many Israelis are so lop-sided, that anything less than a blank cheque is considered anti-Israeli.

Being white sucks. I can't stand all this fucking privilege.

I think the point is, there isn't really a debate about, nor people apologizing for sexism or racism in Arab states. At the same time, we are not staunch allies of these states either. What I'd like to suggest is Israel is acting less and less like a democratic state that values individual rights and international law, and this is directly related to the increasing influence of religious hardliners. The question is, how long is this slide going to go on before we revoke the "unflinching support" we blindingly give Israel? If we really are Israel's best friend, than we should act like a best friend and give them some straight-talk. If my best friend was on a self-destructive path, you damn well believe I'm going to let him know he's hurting himself. Sometimes a friend gets another friend mad at them if it means they'll change their ways for their own benefit - being a Yes-man isn't being a best-friend.

What a failure the blockade has been. It hasn't broken the will of Gazan civilians, it didn't curb Hamas' influence or power, it didn't stop weapons from being smuggled into the territory, and it was a huge black eye for Israel PR-wise and culminated in a terrible incident. Hopefully this will hurt Bibi politically, because as long as he's in power Israel isn't doing anything progressive without serious pressure.

People have been claiming this for decades. And in those decades, our crime rate has dropped, our standard of living has risen. Frankly, I apply the same rules to doomsday xenophobes as I do to apocalyptic preachers - if the world hasn't ended after a dozen or so predictions, than you're full of shite.

Like this It's simple, really.

And how much money was lost because scores of businesses shut down for the summit, including the major theatres in Toronto? - Mirvish lost several hundred thousand alone. Add to that the property damage, and Toronto probably comes out in the hole on this one. Most of the money spent was on security, and most of those providing it were police from out of town, and they were running the central command out of Barrie. Sorry but you'll have to find something else to justify your inferiority complex about wherever you're from. And we'll go right back to not caring that folks like you have an irrational dislike of our city.

So who's dumb idea was it to hold the meeting at the Metro Convention Centre instead of Exhibition Place? If they had changed venues they wouldn't have had to erect that fence around downtown and they could've secured the site with 1/5 of the police they ended up using. The entire reason there was no police to confront the Black Bloc morons smashing things up Yonge Street on the Saturday was because they were all securing the fence. Considering that so far no one has been arrested regarding any of the vandalism, that's not gonna happen. Meaning - those store owners aren't going to get paid, unlike the store owners in Quebec City in 2001 who DID get compensated by the feds for vandalism.

So the peanut gallery thinks that the past few weeks in Toronto has been no big deal because . . . Well I guess because some guy in the Post said so. So armed with zero first-hand experience, your opinions really don't matter that much. The fact is that while the G20 was not a catastrophe, it certainly was a boondoggle because so much of the vandalism and arrests were so utterly predictable and avoidable. THAT is why Torontonians are angry about this . . . Are we ever going to find out who's call it was to hold the meeting at the Metro Convention Centre instead of Exhibition Place? A lot of this mess could've been avoided if the location was changed.

Let me add a fourth description to that list I made earlier . . . 4 - Some of the rioters were COPS It wouldn't be the first time in Canada that police infiltrated a protest posing as Black Bloc protesters carrying weapons. Frankly this wouldn't surprise me at all. There's already some video circulating of Black Bloc people seemingly passing a police line with ease, but it's far from conclusive, I wonder if more video/photos will emerge.

Naw, that's too simplistic. There's three types of people in that video: 1 - Extreme ideologues who are still full of teen angst and with huge egos to boot who think that their actions are justified because "we live in a dictatorship" and they will bring about a revolution. But this is only skin-deep: If you dropped these guys into Tehran last year, they would absolutely s*** their pants. 2 - Adrenaline junkies looking for an excuse to justify their need for a fix. 3 - Guys looking to hook up with freaky protestor chicks for wild anarchist sex.

So free speech should only be allowed in certain areas? Great - than this rule should apply to individuals, groups, and corporations alike - it should be the same across the board. If a group can't stage an oil-sands protest at King and Bay because it's outside the "free speech zone" than Suncor shouldn't be able to buy a billboard at King and Bay and put up an add promoting the oil-sands - because that's outside the free speech zone as well. Right? You're applying this idea of yours consistently across the board - not just at groups whose message you don't like - because if you did then you would be promoting a form of fascism.

Well, here's the thing . . . I fully support Ann Coulter's right to come to Canada and say dumb-ass things that could include the following: So why not this moron too? At least I'm no hypocrite, unlike some of you here, who have no problem with a right-wing bigot stopping by, but when someone says something offensive about a group you identify with (ie - Western Civilization) you jump at the chance to shut the gates, and all your support for free-speech shrinks faster than my manhood does at the sight of Coulter's skeleton legs. And thus, you feed the narrative this idiot promotes - that there really is a war against Islam itself - otherwise the same rules would apply across the board.

The vast majority of insurance policies for small businesses don't cover damaged caused by civil disobedience. Corporate policies usually do, because they're more likely to be the target of such violence.

Next time some river floods in Alberta, f*** those guys! That's what they get for living on a flood plain! Right? . . . It's amazing how this notion of what government owes it's citizens changes so dramatically for some posters here based on if something happens in Toronto versus in their home region. Apparently their hate-on for this city is so strong it causes them to become completely irrational.

King riots? In Toronto? Excuse me?

No, I'm not surprised that after seizing hours and hours of videotape, the IDF has managed to scrape a few clips together that support their version of events. It's called selective editing - and as a video editor, it's pretty easy to do, if you have enough footage. What's more surpassing is that people are so willing to completely swallow whatever the IDF puts out, but I guess that's what you do when you've put all your eggs in one basket - that basket being the one that positions Israel as some white knight, incapable of such dirty things as propaganda. I've said before - we'll never truly know what happened, but to claim that the IDF isn't actively engaged in full-out propaganda, isn't just naive, it's false - given that they have a large, well-funded propaganda unit. Keep in mind most of the gov'ts initial claims about IHH have been retracted. Face it, the IDF isn't any more credible a source than the activists.

Well, if you care so much about Congo now, stop buying things from Wal-Mart. They are the single-largest buyer of gold from Congo, which is smuggled into Rwanda (which has no gold) for export and is used to fund militia group's war crimes. Blood Gold. Plus they make cheap, shitty jewellery with it.