old_bold&cold

A 500.00 dollar fine is not going to put the poor in jail. You must know by now that we do not jail for non-payment of finds any more right? We will suspend driver licenses and garanshee wages, etc, even take tax returns. But we do not jail them. A court may make him do mandatory public service, if he is totally without means. Ah I think you mean alcohol is by far more dangerous, and yes in some cases it is especially when it is abused. But for the most part it is not abused and when used this way it has no fines for it, because it is legal. If you abuse it then yes fines and criminal records and such do happen. So the answer is DO NOT ABUSE IT! You have your own views on this and by god I will fight for you to have them Well, you and I will have to disagree on this, because I really do not believe that teachers are the big drug users you think thye are. Sure they will have some who regularly do so, but you are hinting at the majority, and I would have to see that first before accepting that at face value. You mean to tell me that it is only the casual user that makes the dealers able to make the money they do? The addicts are just there to break even right? It just sounds ridiculous. Sure there may be a fairly large casual user population, but I would think the addicts would be where the money is. I could be wrong of course as if the casual user uses as much as you say then he would become the addict now would he not?

No I have to disagree with you. Canada has laws of the land and they stand above all religious laws and should never be bent or broken. I do not care if a person is from lands where religous law is above all others. When they choose Canada as their place to be, they must agree to this or they should not come here. That to me is a main part of the reason I like Canada. I will not allow religious rules and laws to change our own laws. There can be no accommodation for this at all. For instance, female castrtion with out consent is against our laws, and no one should be accomodated to allow this to happen. plural marriages are against our laws and no we should not accomodate them. We do know that these do exists and when ever we find them, people get prosecuted. So anyone coming here that can not understand that, needs to go else where to live. It is against our laws to preach hate. So if an Iman preaches these extremist things in their mosques he should be arrested and charged and deported if need be. We have freedom to practice religion as long as those practices are within the laws of our land. Sorry no accomodation on that at all. That is a deal breaker right there. Things like burqas ore other things which do not break our laws, I have no problems with.

This is not a fair poll as I think for the most part people lie somewhere in between no spending and unlimited spending. The federal government must keep its ability to act in a unified way to help out the provinces, or to even pressure them into doing what is baest for all of Canada. The provinces have already been given much more lattitude in things, then they ever had before. To now stop all federal spending in provincial areas, is not realistic. Yes the provinces would rather they get the money and spend it where they see fit, but that sometimes goes against what the rest of Canada is getting and doing. So yes they need to be able to spend to some degree and take the provincial politics out of that, so the effects are more immediate then taking the long way round route. But to say they should have unlimited access, is not right either. There should be a compelling reason for spending in provincial areas and ones that show a federal hand is what is needed. So if this poll were to be more to finding the true will of the people, there should be a middle vote where it says spending but with limits to areas that will balance the benefits to all Canadians advantage. For example Spending in the area of northern job losses due to some outside issue. Where interm federal spending in this area, will save job losses and maybe even keep mining and other employers there until things blow over. But this is in the interrests of all the people in Canada as it will affect us all in many ways. We need the ability to do what is right in a fast and correct manner. If we let two levels of government argue it all till they agree there would be nothing left to agree to.

You are fogetting on very important fact, and that is while there is some sympathy for the first time offender to not be saddled with a criminal record for life, there is not enough support for the multi-offence offender, and even far less willing to legalize the drug completely. So those are the facts of life in this, and speculating on whethere or not legalizing it would change things, is not what the reality is, now isn't it? I proposed a fair fine and no record for first time offender. The $500.00 fine is not that high and is only 25% of the fine for speeding over 50 KPH when no one was hurt. So it is not something that is without merit, but rather a sensible fine. If that person then decides that this is not enough to stop hom from using, then he get the record and the sizable increase in fines to $5,000.00. If he goes beyond that then, yes ,jail is called for after a 3 time loser. That does follow what the concept of obeying the law calls for. The jail for 2years less a day, is so they can first be sent to provincial jails which are less strict then federal prisons. Again , if he goes past that then federal prison and all that goes with takes place. Depending on the amounts and othet things will determine the time sentenced to and yes up to 20 years would have to be in the mix as deallers are also in this group at this point. You may not like this, but that is only because you intend to break the law and there fore have biased to any punishment. Your position on this (legalization), is not about to happen anytime soon if ever. So while the government amy be willing to give a firt time offendera break, that doe not mean it will entertain outright legalization. So whose postion of what and how to get something on this, is more likely to come about yours or mine?

I do not feel that immigration is something that is out of our hands. We do screen people who come here and yes I would say that many are turned down for many and varied reasons. I do believe we here in Canada missed a hue opportunity when Hong Kong was given back to China and many very rich and entrepeneurial refugees were turned away. These same people would have been a large source for jobs here in Canada, and yes they would have paid their own way. I also think that we have to have a certain empathy for some refugees and yes some of these will be a drain on our system for a few years, but most will find jobs. Not all of these refugees gather into seperate communities either. Yes when you are alone in a foreign land, you may seek others of your same language and plights, just to reenforce your safety. This may then even grow inot fond friendships and mean yes seeking housing that make be in communities of like mined citizens. It need not be nefarious. As long as these people obey our laws and follow them just like any other person then they are free to live where and how they like, and to worship how they wish. The only thing that we need do is make sure that they all know and understand, is here in Canada our laws of the land superceed all religious laws, and there must be an understanding that this is not negoiable in any way. I would say that this one point is probably the biggest thing they have to agree to. Because in many of the land where these people come from religious land trumps all other laws. If we can be sure of that, then we should give them the freedom to live within those boundaries. Now how does that say that I feel we have no choice? I think it not only says that we have that choice but we will enforce it al the time.

When I was in Cuba and took a tour bus of Havana, the guide said that there are something like 1000 cubans for every doctor and that there does not seem to be any shortage of supplies or services there at all. Now yes, this same guide was all proud to be a Cuban and even more proud of the reveloution, that took place and how Cuba is now a living thriving place. By my observation, I would say that Cuba is now living the same lives and standards that we did during the fifties and sixties. They are happy and they look healthy. Now are there shortages? Yes and most cubans would greatly appreciate a fragranced bar of soap over money any day. There is not real hunger of the masses and while there are some fat Cubans, they are not so common. They are happy with their lot in life for the most part, so I will not fault them on their healthcare, because it is more then adaquet for them. Canada'a healthcare is better then most others, but yes it is expensive. Today when our dollar is higher then the USD, it makes no sense for our doctors to go south for more money. Also many doctors who did leave, are considering coming back here to practice. Unfortunately with the exception of Alberta and some other western provinces nurses still can make more in the USA then here in Canada, but that is now much smaller difference then it was. If we stop the loss of our educated doctors to other countries, and keep our nurses, then Canada will be a much better system then the USA. Times, events, and economies are all changing in Canada's favour, and we will again be enjoying our healthcare system, the way it was designed to be used. Our gain in that though, will probably come at the cost to the USA system, but they will adapt to this quicker then we did, when it was the other way around. As for Moores views go, it was a movie that had intented purposes and it did not give fair representation to opposing ideas or views. But that is what Hollywood is and does. It did take all the blurred areas of doubt and shine it towards their own point of view. Much like we argue here, and each person views are probably not with out slants towards their own insights.

I am finding this hard to believe that people are still gooing on with this thread. It probably has been repeated over and over. JD will not admit to being wrong in any of this, and that is his bad. He deminishes himself more with every post. I do not see there being any real fallout for this kind of thing for Harper, but yes, it is obvious that the Liberal slant in all of this has backfired. Even they have given up on this. It is sad that in todays times, where we are supposed to be open minded and free thinking, that this kind of thing can even make the papers. We have people who take the privacy laws way further then they were designed to be taken, and then misuse these to explain bad behaviour. Wishing people a happy (whatever religious holiday) is not and never should it be an invasion of privacy. You have to really start to think about the menality of those who see spookes and alteior motives behind these cards. Most of them have never lived through the times in Nazi Germany, when there were lists, that later were used to round up the jews, but they all say they have been taught that this can be a bad thing. This kind of thread only serves to reinforce those teachngs, when really, there is nothing even close to that happening. JD is just trying to save face, and taken a completely ridiculous stance, that he knows no can truly disprove equivocally, but one that can only be used, if we strtech the law passed its noram boundaries. He will sit there and repeat his mantra over and over, no matter who or what we say to him. He is a liberal supportter and has been a good source for opposing view of this forum, longer then I have been here. He has now lost a lot of respect that he held, for this very thread. I would assume that he would like it to die, but yes he has to keep getting in the last post. So we are now at 14+ pages of "no I am not, you are " type loop. This is going to be my last post in this thread, and I hope it dies soon, as it really does not add much of anything to the forums.

I am sorry. I did find this after you said and a yes I guess it was my bad, as I am working on a small screen laptop and yes I just did not scroll down enough to see this. Yes I do see them on the forums. It must be something where screen resolution can fix. Being older I tend to go with larger typefaces and and yes I guess if I use a higher resolution it will give me a better way to see all of the page. As I said this is my own bad and you are right I probably shoudl have taken more time to rad all the other threads before as starting this new one. It is that I seldom have need to come to this part of the site, but still, that is on me. Sorry to have bothered you.

This is getting way out of hand. Does anyone see where this breaks any laws that we have in Canada? If not, then that should be the end of it. But if they say force the young into female castration and other things that are against the law here, then we have an issue to go after them with. While I would like to think that refugees have come to our country because they see our ways and want to be part of them, there will always be those who come and want to setup their own communities. They can have their own community standards laws. Again these laws will have to be withing our laws of the land. If they want religious laws that would break our laws then no, they can not do this and should be charged for doing any of this. I have seen people who get upset because these people speak a language that no one but they understands, and they do so very loudly at times. But that is not against any laws. What is wrong with some one designing a sub division that appeals to a small demographic. He seems sucessful and happy about what he is doing. I assume all these homes were bought and taxes paid. They will have property taxes and GST as well as income taxes. So yes they have to contribute to the system. Just why all the fuss?

Shavluk you do not like my view on things and that is just too bad. Just as you embarass yourself daily here with your drug rectoric, and you do not like being called on that. I almosted choked when I saw you actually are running and believe me The green party is not supportting your views on this, and they say you are on your own. But yes I called your buuddy retarded and that was against the rules. I like many people here do not keep a finger on the report button. I have also been admonished because I shared my true feeling about Chretien on here but wheile it was seen in bad taste, it was not really against the rules. That is it for messages pretty much and this thread was only because in the message they didi not say to change it and I had thought they already had. But that is life. I still say that these messages need to be able to responded to, and it is not fair to block them. Again that is my opinion if the Administration dis agrees then I would hope they will so and why.

Shavluk you do not like my view on things and that is just too bad. Just as you embarass yourself daily here with your drug rectoric, and you do not like being called on that. I almosted choked when I saw you actually are running and believe me The green party is not supportting your views on this, and they say you are on your own. But yes I called your buuddy retarded and that was against the rules. I like many people here do not keep a finger on the report button. I have also been admonished because I shared my true feeling about Chretien on here but wheile it was seen in bad taste, it was not really against the rules. That is it for messages pretty much and this thread was only because in the message they didi not say to change it and I had thought they already had. But that is life. I still say that these messages need to be able to responded to, and it is not fair to block them. Again that is my opinion if the Administration dis agrees then I would hope they will so and why.

The moderators send messages and give warnings and not say to remove anything, then weeks later I get from greg remove or get Banned. Well it is removed and if there were any way to reply to these messages it would have been done much quicker and with out the threats. This is something that should be looked at. Yes I probably should not have used the term retarded, but then again in context it was over the mark but it was also heated discussion. If you are not going to allow us to reply and discuss these things then how are we to take that. The message said it was not allowed but I had assumed that as with moderators they have the ability to edit it and that had already been done. I would have not complained at his doing so. The truth be told I never ever went back to see if he had or had not edited it. So in the interest of fairness I believe we should be allowed to reply to messages sent. not so much to argue, but to find out more as to why and what you want done. It is not as if moderators would be flooded with these replies.

What is the point in this, other then another persons view that we are using up our natural resources faster then our own domestic needs are, and we sell all we have left over to foreign countries, without thought of keeping reserves for our own use. The only flaw in that is the fatc that the tar sands hold more oil in there then all the middle east. So it would be generations before they would run out, even at todays consumptions. If anything we will be more in need of technology to make getting all the oil out quicker, then danger of running out. Also the other law in this is the fact that yes we are quickly changing our views on oil and technology to take the automobile out of the equation will soon be here, and then we will have these huge gluts of oil and refineries will be over flowing. So does it not make sense to make as much as possible now, while we still have the ability to do so. This I am sure will come about in my lifetime. Teslas idea about the world being one giant generator is still valid today. Just not yet developed but we all know that a generator is just an Iron core being turned inside a large magnetic field is what generate electricity. One day we will tap this source and have unlimited electrical power, and oil will only be used to lubricate things. Again all this will happen in the near future. So why is Albertas push for producing more oil to export and sell, a bad thing?

I do take this as good news, as while a lot of doctors in the USA do put in less time then most in Canada, they still burn out much faster. I am not sure why, but I can only assume it is the pressure they are put under. Now that the Canadian dollar is back above the USD, it probably does not make much sense to stay south of the border. This would be good for us here but yes it will need many more to become what we would call a good working model.

Under fifty is young. I felt my youngest times were up to 48, and then health drops off big time now I am late fifties, and while I am not even clos to kicking, my activities are at a much slower pace. But hey if you are older, then just take it as an compliment.

If Canada were to get new submarines they should be of the very large nucear types already being used by Russia and the USA. We would only need three really but in a pinch could get away with two. We need the ability to go under the artic icecap and make sure we can make our claim there solid. Each coast should also have one for patrols there. The ones that are taking so long and so much money, well they can be spares I guess. Maybe even be in the great lakes as well, as salt water seems to give them problems.

I am only a few years older then you Shavluk, and as for posts that are incoherrent goes... You win that prize. Coot I believe is a younger person still trying to make his mark in life,. So yes I give him a lot more lea way.

Well I thought I made my point in that post and it may have been long winded by it still is the only sensible thing that I have seen posted. There is absolutely no will of this government to decriminalize pot. It is not going to happen. But If there were a reasonable and well developed petition to give fist time offenders a break but a fair fine, and no criminal record, and also then making it more severe for mulitiple offenders, then and only then would it stand a chance of happening. Harper is for get tough and the get tough on multioffenders would allow him that. Easing up on first timers would be where the trade was being made. If there were reasonable support for that, maybe you would see it happen. But the public at large would have to consulted and it would have to be sold to them properly. The way these drive by posts have been going most of the members here will not answer these and many have put them on their ignore lists, so they do not even see them. That is why I say it has been the wrong way right from the first post on it.

I really do not find a problem with this at all. I would think that if someone from another faith really wanted to live in this kind of home, that they probably could buy just like any other person. But yes the home designer and realestate brokers both have made it to suit certain people. That is such a small market to draw from that I can not see it being the best choice for these investors. But it is their money so they can invest and spend it as they wish. As long as the people of this community follow the laws of the land for Canada, then no harm no foul. It would though be nice to think that these people would also blend in a bit more with Canadian way of life, but that is not a prerequist to being here. There could be a danger of community conflict over some religious practices that are against Canadian law, and as I said earlier, the one thing that must still stand is that out law of the land trumps all religion and their laws when in conflict with them. But other then that I hope they are happy with their new homes and community.

I have limits to the levels I think the laws should go to, and this kind of thing and even knowing religions etc., that are just really basic level garbage, should never in any way shape or form be considered invasion of privacy. I have the good sense to know the spirite of the law. And this does not pass the smell test.

Tbud why is it that you think that people just becuause the say they would give a small break to minor possession or things maybe a even a little higher and you say then you support Decriminalization? You know if there were a real honest effort made to have it so the first offence for under 30 grams of pot to be a $500.00 fine no criminal record, and the next offense a $5,000.00 and one year suspended sentence, and any offence after that would be 2 years less a day up to 20 years. Then maybe there would be some following for this. You and your cause will never sell the voters on complete decriminalization of pot. Also you have really picked the wrong place to argue this, as from whay I am seeing most have just writtren of all these threads as a joke. I sure know I have. If you want to get something at the open end and make it just a fine, then it will have to be a fine that hurts. Not $50.00 or $100.00, but $500.00 or more. Then in order to get that you will have to be harder on the muliple offences. It won't fly any other way. But spin your wheels and waste your time if you like. For the most part of Canada the people want to see pot stamped out, unless prescribed, and then the legal stuff is so low in THC content, that it ends up being way too expensive. If pot was legal and taxed, then licenses would be required and growing your own would be even a bigger offence, and yes you would easily see jail for unlicensed growing, and unpaid tax etc.. Just like those who would distill wiskey on their own would today. But we do have a home made beer, but if it exceeds the strength set in law its is then illegal. So I hope you get my drift, that things will not change anytime soon and probably not in your or my lifetime. I am assuming you are young by the way. Me Iam an old fart. You will never get any real support for your issue on the net, because it is a paper tiger where people can stay anomynous. When they would have to shown how they feel where friends Families and employers are, it will be a vastly different story. Much as it is with drinking and alcohol abuse, and even regular use.

JD never mind being sick of public domain, be very sick of the people who nit pick at the privacy laws and think they can bend them for their own personal gain. That is worse then anything public domain ever has done. You yap and yes I say yap that this maybe or could be against privacy act, when you know it really is not the case, and it is not even close to the case. I used to think you open minded but in this you closed your mind and have made a huge mess of everything about this whole issue. This should have been a 5 minute piece and it should have been over. The liberal party will take the blame and it should, because this shows just how out of touch and low they and their supportters really are. You have not done any favours here with this and yourself a large disservice.

JD my mother received a letter way back from Chretien, for being a cancer survior, for 50 years since the batlle against it was fought. She did not make a fuss and actually had the warm fuzzies for a few moments of the day about getting this. Even though she hated the man as PM. So I would wonder just how many privacy issues that would have broken by your standards, but for her and most others, it is not even a minor issue. She may well get one from Harper when she reaches 90 or even 100. This kind of thing is done all the time by all the parties. do not even think that the Liberals never did such a thing, as it is not true.

I think that if it s just a manpower thing maybe community volunteers could ride with each car and lend a hand where needed. Of course there would have to be some guidelines set, but some times a civilian can may diffuse the situation some, and act as back up in other cases. This would also give better links from the police to the community. Whether it would have stopped this death or created two though is something that would need taking into account.

I am sorry JD but you can not have it both ways. It is obvious that the whole posting has a liberal slant and the things it implies are also done with a liberal slant on it. But everyone here knows this and yes they are riled at you, who usually is not this hard headed, but in this case you are wrong and need to just accept the fact that maybe this thread and its implied title was not the best choice you could have made. As for the body of the post you made, you may now want to get away from it, but yes it is very hard to do. I guess I am also bad for wishing this could get more public screening, because this really does make the Liberal party to look just like they were during Adscam, and yes I want this known for political gain for the CPC. So yes it is wrong of me to want that, only because it is so disgusting. Which though then makes it even more wrong for you to keep trying to defend this. Face it the news media are liberal supportters and they do like to make grandiose stories about how the Harper government is doing all these wrongful things. But this pig does not fly no matter how you dress it. It has backfired here and I think probably to the public as well. I do know that the Jewish people I know will not be offended if they got a card and will look at this attempt to exploit them in this shameful way, as an insult to them. Those who spoke up in this may well be talked to by the rabbi's of there temples, for making such statements with no basis for that kind of thing. But as you say some were not practicing jews, so they will only have themsleves to answer to. I must admit though you did unify many poeple here against what you posted. I have yet to see many things that gelled so greatly with the members here, before. Maybe it is a record.