madmax

Kim Campbell Conservatives held seats for similar lengths and lost all but 2 of them. If you are saying the Liberals should have been reduced to 25 seats, that fine by me. Martin called an early election. Foolishness and arrogance were going to cost them seats. However in the other thread, you only site Peterson of this foolish act. Harper blew it in the last week. Documented fact of foot in mouth. Very very stupid. I will call that the fault of Stephen Harper. Hiding in a trailer is not campaigning. As for 2006 the public wanted the Liberals whacked. Harpers actions of the past continued to dominate the publics perceptions of him. They still do to this day. This has been a slow rehabilitation process. The Liberals called him scarey and he does say things that are so outrageous and stupid that it supports the Liberal Smear. Now, what's this topic? Oh yeah, Pat Martin.

There is some substance to your opinion. from wiki Clearly no NDP veterans were expecting to run let alone win and early election. And here is the rest of the story Seat wise, it was a landslide. If you compare the Peterson Liberals to the Chretian/Martin Liberals, the fact that Harper couldn't deliver the Federal Liberals their worst defeat, probably says more about the Leader during these past 2 elections. Peterson is the best known example. It isn't a good match for the current federal situation like you have stated. However, it is still a good example of what can go wrong. Same for Kim Campbell and John Turner.

That was another credibility issue. The election was already going to be early. Paul Martin essentially called one. Bringing down the government a few months early, one that wasn't intending to do any work with any party and was going to be campaigning their way out of troubles needed to have its plug pulled. The Public was ready for this. However, should that plug had been pulled when Stephen Harper wanted it done, when he missed an opportunity to support elements in the budget that his supporters would have approved of, he did a disservice to government and would have brought down the government in an attempt to win an election. It didn't work and he handed over the agenda to the Liberals and the NDP. Not a very smart move for a party leader. Had Martin not called an election on his own in a panic stricken TV announcement, he could well have governed another full year. The only people buying the "early" election spin where Liberal Partisans, not the public. But there is no reason for this government to say we need an election. But if there is an election, they will all be giving reasons why we need an election. I don't.

Really? Why didn't that machine wake up for the last election? Because the polls suggested that corruption and accountability were the top issues. The Liberals had no credibility with the public. No counter to this, and their attacks failed against Harper and against the NDP. A little bait here? If Harper hadn't been the leader in 2004, the Conservatives may have done better. Calling the Prime Minister a supporter of child porn really did the party in during the final week. In 2006 Harper had an easier time managing his image. The Liberals had a more difficult time with theirs. The issues of Liberal Arrogance and Corruption had been around during the Reform/Alliance period, and was really attacked by the Joe Clark Progressive Conservatives better than the former party. But the Conservatives where able to capitalize on this by 2006 without Harper putting his foot in his mouth. I am not certain that the Liberals didn't have an easy time with Harper as leader. I believe that the liberals should have been reduced to 12 seats. (I would have said 2 seats but that's been done before). Something Conservatives should be very aware of.

Too bad the Rhinos are gone. Now the only jokes come from LPC/CPC. I recall some Rhino Policies but thank heavens for Wiki to remind me of some others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada and my personel favourite

There is nothing uplifting about any of the comments above. Neither of these parties are able to stop playing games with one another. Neither of them treat the government with any respect. Both of these parties use government services and spend money as if their entitlements come first and their partizanship comes first. Once again, there is only one loser in this. The voter.

The Senate is unnecessary. I don't want it elected. I want it disolved. So do many Senators. The Conservative Government in Ontario had reduced the number of elected officials from 130 to 103 in 1999. In 1967 there were 108 seats in Ontario. They went up to 117 then 125 by 1975 and 130 by 1987. Now you are implying they should increase them. Are Conservatives coming and going at the same time?

Joe Public just won't vote. Very possible. But alot of people whom moved their votes to the CPC may not vote either. Low voter turnout isn't beneficial to the CPC. The CPC base comes out, but that isn't enough to affect change in this country. Low voter turnout, has been beneficial to the Liberals vs the CPC or the NDP. I have been looking at voter turnouts and these voters increases went to the CPC and the NDP when voter turnout increased. I agree.

I doubt that - maybe if he loses seats, but not if retains the same or gains some. I doubt that as well. However should the CPC instigate the election and not get a Majority, the party should question why the election took place, when they could have continued to govern. This would be a stupid decision like Paul Martin made. He was in charge of a Majority and called an election to obtain a Minority. What an idiot. The in a panic puts an election date out there, so that he can lose his minority vs govern with what he earned earlier. Govern with what you got, and if you don't want to earn your living governing, you should not be re elected. Politics has become a real letdown for the public. So far, this government (all parties) have chosen to accomplish very little. Gamesmanship on all sides, CPC included, have shown the public that these elected officials are more interested in playing games upon one another vs doing their elected duties. I don't see the advantage of having an election. I don't believe the numbers will change enough to create anything but another minority government.

On a personel note, you would like the dollar to continue to rise. It has been in the 90s. However it has been a heck of a lot lower the past decade, when it was in the 60 cent range. That is quite an increase. Being an export Nation, a high dollar isn't that advantageous. Travelling around the Globe, a high dollar is quite helpful. It is interesting to see how many places are accepting Canadian Currency. This is a relatively new phenomena.

It may interest you to know that he was once a Young Tory. He's also a Minister. But from the United Church so that isn't the same I suppose. Are you trying to slur a Minister and his Church?

Look at drops in levels of support historically. The NDP are setting themselves up as a true alternative to the Liberals as a centre-left party in Canada. I don't know if the NDP are setting themselves up as the "Centre Left" party. What I tend to read on these forum threads lately, is that the Liberals since electing Dion have moved further off the radar screen. Speaking to niche issues and targeting Green/NDP issues. It appears the NDP are targeting issues outside of their niche issues, and have to do this to work with the CPC government. Since Pat Martin is the source of this thread. He worked with the CPC and it appeared the Libs where getting in the way of what the government was trying to accomplish. The NDP wanted to get the "Clean Air Act" cleaned up vs a DOA and the Liberals cried foul. When the liberals did get their private members bill through, that the NDP supported, it showed how hollow this piece of legislation really was and opened another weakness in Liberal Policy. The NDP still have to work with the CPC to get the Clean Air Act turned into something that will pass. I also see Peter Stoffer name mentioned. He is a great watchdog and holds the government accountable on issues that would be in their favour to address regardless. Our defence ships need fuel. Now theres a no brainer and one that Canadians and CPC would support. These are mainstream issues that the NDP haven't demonstrated interest in since Ed Broadbent. The NDP doesn't appear to have moved away from their traditional positions as much as trying to broaden their appeal. I don't see this as any different then what the CPC are doing. They are moving more towards the mainstream Canadian, but the people don't know if this is because it is a requirement to govern or a requirement to get a majority. I don't think Pat Martin has said anything out of the ordinary. I believe media and spin doctors might want it to appear more then what it is. As for Buzz Hargrove, he had been campaigning against the NDP for quite sometime, but never as openly as when he travelled with Paul Martin. I believe his membership are none to pleased, that he can't get a meeting with Stephen Harper. And yet, I believe their could be some common ground with regards to China, the CPC, the CAW leadership and the NDP. Once an election is called, the Liberal Machine will wake up. Find out what the polls are saying and the Liberals will be there.

There is a budget in a short period of time. No opposition parties have the stomach for an election at this time. The Public doesn't want one. It isn't going to happen and if it does, someone is going to pay a backlash for this political opportunism. This could be the CPC or the LPC/BQ/NDP whoever takes the blame for not wanting to govern. Whoever it is will feel the wrath of the public. I only know of political hacks or enthusiasts and media pundits who are interested in this. Joe public will be very very very angry if there is one this year.

It is not an illogical argument. Infact what you have said above is a very realistic assessment. Ontario has taken their manufacturing for granted. I agree with your statements of finance and manufacturing in Ontario. These opportunuties in Ontario have been treated apathetically by governments for quite some time. I am very dissappointed in the way Ontario has taken these sectors for granted. Their is a rude awakening coming for many people in the future. If you were criticising my comments, they were merely to state, that Albertas premiers have been very vocal in protecting their sectors. Ontario Premiers, including Harris, have never been able to sound strong and affirmative when challenging the federal government. McGuinty sounds whiney.

My grammer in these forums in not so great either. Sometimes I imply the opposite of what I mean while typing in a hurry. Same as with spelling mistakes. We are all going to make a few. Keep doing your best.

So successful crooked Sleezy Lawyers work for the Banks and the Corporations behalf. While the unsuccessful crooked Sleazy Lawyers become civil servants of the court? Their are alot of Lawyers out there, many of them politicians in the CPC party. I am concerned. Unfortuneately my brush stroke doesn't include all the Lawyers in the profession.

A lawyers ability to make profit has little to do with ones knowledge of law. Just because the Lawyer follows the money, doesn't suggest that he would make a good judge. The only thing determined, is that the Lawyer is practicing in a profitable market. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I think you have it in for lawyers.

Do you have a source for this figure? I don't believe Electing the Senate has any use whatsoever. And Lord Knows once they get the power to be elected, they will demand more seats for more of them, and more money too. Just abolish it. We don't need more elected officials to determine personel levels of the unelected government. The current elected officials have the power to do this today. Adding another layer, like the Senate, won't change a damn thing. Stephen Harper and his Ministers can start the order to downsize today if there are unnecessary personel. Governments have done this in the past. Disolve the unneccessary Senate. Even the NDP want this level of Government Gone.

Amazing what Oil can do. Alberta hasn't gotten the short end of any stick. Ontario hasn't ever learned to whine properly. McGuinty sounds whiney, but it's not an effective whine. Ontario needs the threatening whine that gets delivered by Alberatan and Newfoundland Leaders.

Too Late

thanks for your comments, welcome. Yes, this is an interesting board.

Good Article. Pat Martin speaking his mind again. And here is more

Agreed Just another coward. I recall when I was younger, I often felt that my dress, look and walk made me a target for guys wanting to make a name for themselves. Being in the military can be a thankless job. Go to some dusty country, try and sort out "the locals" problems that go back decades while someone is trying to take you out. You do this because your country sends you there. And you do a good job only to have the locals in your own country take a cheap shot at you. I have no use for cowards.

It is against forum rules to cut and paste an entire copyrighted article. You should also provide a link to the originating article. Finally, your chosen thread title says nothing about the topic.I have reported your post. Way to go August1991. You a hero too.

Did you make these figures up yourself?