Accountability Now

jacee...how much money was 'pulled' from this IBA by the province? Do you have that number. Just as importantly, why did the Province give Attawapiskat 4.4 million in funding for social assistance and 150k for daycare in 2011? http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Programs.pdf They did honour the agreement which was based on the taxes imposed by the Province of Ontario. I'm sorry that you don't like the way the agreement was structured however that agreement was signed by both parties with the understanding of the risks involved. I guess agreements only work when they benefit your side...right?

I don't think he's worth a billion. Most sites say he's at 300 million with only this site saying 400 million http://richestcelebrities.org/richest-business/kevin-oleary-net-worth/ Obviously, its still enough for one person but I would have to agree with Moonlight in that I can't see him taking a pay cut for this.

Yes I agree with your earlier statement on how he has presented himself as greedy and selfish. How do you go back on that now?

I haven't seen anything on him running in Alberta, just federally.

I read somewhere that the banks in Panama didn't take many North American customers.if that's true then it's probably not likely to see his name.

Show me where I made that claim. I'll wait....

I have asked you multiple times to provide back up to the claims you make yet here we are again with nothing. Perhaps the only credibility you should worry about is your own.

I love how you are arguing a hypothetical. I have suggested that the only way to move on is for a complete buyout. You can either accept or reject that. I have already stated that there is no way the First Nations would actually accept it because they want to hang onto any little bit they can. You are proving that with your responses. In theory...if the Government were to do this, they would not pay a whack load of cash and then still have lingering problems with new agreements. They would pay it to end all agreements. Having said that, even if they were able to end all agreements with this payout, in about 20 years you'd have some nutbar claiming they paid the wrong guy or something stupid like that and the lawsuits would remain. Hence probably the reason the government wouldn't even consider it.

I don't think we are in agreement....the whole point of this payout would be to eliminate the treaties and any aboriginal right going forward. If they agreed, they would be compensated in a one time payout but after that, they would be regular ol' Canadians.

I am somewhat in agreement with you on the premise but I know we would disagree on the end game. I think there should be a one time payout to all First Nations that ends not only their land claims but also the treaties. The government would pay this sum and retain all lands which they could sell back to the individual person who wants to stay. Those who don't can move on. You say that no government has had the guts but I think its the other way around. The First Nations would NEVER let this go. Not in a million years.

Excellent post however it doesn't matter if you have true life experience or cold hard facts, the argument that you make will fly in the face of people that have no desire to actually fix the situation. They would rather assess blame as long as none of that blame lands near the First Nations themselves.

They have been given the funds to do it and they request to be self-governing so its up to them to implement their standard. I don't have to ask myself this as I know the answer. They don't take care of the these things because in their mind, these things don't belong to them....they belong to the white man. No native on reserve owns their own house so what incentive is their to upkeep it or improve it?? As for the schools, its the same mentality. As per a previous quoted link from AANDC: I have shown that funding is there. It comes down to management which is on them. As for the drinking water....I have asked before and I will ask again....where in the treaties does it say that we need to provide water or wastewater treatment. I don't know about you but my municipal government runs the those services here and I pay a monthly bill for those services. Again...stop citing the treaties if you don't actually know what's in them. I asked you to back your claims in post 38... Yet you continue to throw out random numbers with no backing. Are you not able to actually have an honest conversation on the topic, therefore you throw out random thoughts and numbers just to prove a point?

I know that words and sentences are tough but you really should try to read what was said and not what you want to hear. I never said I didn't trust the source, I said I understand there is bias. I also gave you a million chances to counter the simple claims he made about funding and yet here you are still spinning your wheels calling out the source. STEP UP and show he's wrong. On your very first post on this thread, you made the claim that First Nations are underfunded. I have asked you to provide a citation to back up that claim and you haven't even come close to doing that. Now, as per the rules of this forum please provide back up to your claim or retract it. Actually I don't remember that because I don't buy into the media BS. Do you also contribute to every Tom, Dick and Harry that starts up a Go Fund Me page to support their fishing trip? The reality is these kids know what they know from their elders. These elders of course have spewed lies and urban legends that we see all throughout the internet in the comments section. Yet when these lies are actually brought forth, examined and proven to be wrong they still bury their heads in the sand much like we've seen from you in these arguments. It is sad to see this sort of thing happen but its mostly sad because its these parents failing their kids.

Here's half the equation jacee.... https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1349140116208/1349140158945

No..no one understands your bluster. You see when one makes an argument that one side receives more funding that others then USUALLY you actually provide numbers for both sides and then compare. Of course, I say usually because you clearly don't do that. Instead you made a claim that Provincial schools don't include the Capital costs in the funding number....yet you have not even given or agreed to a funding number. Instead you just posted a link showing the capital that the Province of Ontario is providing for schools. If you want to actually make some sort of argument, then prove that the funding numbers for CDN schools DON'T include capital costs. You have not done that. Perhaps your point was to show that Capital Costs are higher in Provincial schools? I don't know....because you don't really make a point. Its not up to me to prove his numbers are correct. Its up to you to prove they are not. If you can't do it then retract your statement about the under funding. He stated it in the article and I restated it in my post. He got his numbers from Federal Archives and AANDC website. Go find them or find other numbers that contradict what he's saying. Like I said in a previous post, I'll gladly review and even accept another credible source that proves his numbers are not correct. Like I said, no one understands your bluster. Again, prove that 'capital' is included in First Nations funding numbers but not the Canadian ones. Of course, I do find it interesting that you bring up Capital because a number of treaties actually state the Government is only responsible for providing teachers salaries and never mention providing schools. But again that would be in the treaty which doesn't mean anything, right? So...what has Canada supplied for capital:

Serious Facepalm!!! Please go back and TRY to read where I said its the First Nations who say they aren't Canadian citizens. Of course we can agree that the idea of them not being Canadian citizens is a bluster. At least you got that part right

I want you to go tell a Metis person or First Nation person that and see what they say. LOL

You want to check on that one again??? They get special treatment but the code certainly does apply to them....on and off the reserve!

Maybe you should read the WHOLE post rather than what you want to read or what fits your meme. I specifically stated in that post they have the right to hunt and fish. When I stated they had no rights, it was to the land itself. This is explicitly stated in the treaties and shown even to be true on the reserves where the Government still owns the land. Please try, for just once, to actually comprehend the conversation. Seriously????? That is the same example you have trotted out twice with the most recent time in the Metis thread. Both times I have shown you the fallacies in your arguments. Why do you do this? There is no audience listening to us debate....you know that right?? Even if there is then they can just go over to the Metis thread and see your points being torn to shreds over there. LOL. You actually believe this ignorance that you spew? They get citizenship rights because they are citizens even thought THEY say they aren't. They became citizens when they signed the treaties. Its clearly written there....maybe read it some time. Deny treaty rights? I have said multiple times in this thread alone that they are entitled to their treaty rights but nothing more. Its the fact that you can't handle/understand that there are a limit to to those treaty rights and not a full ride as you wish it to be. Again...I like how you are talking in the third person as if you are preaching. Hilarious!!!! So you have no numbers to refute his claims, only to say that he made his claims without providing sources...even though he states that he got his numbers from Federal Archives and AANDC. Instead of actually showing how his numbers don't work, you instead come up with some claim about Capital and then decide to throw a link about Ontario schools as if that represents all of Canada. YEEESH. I'll await your finely executed rebuttal showing that Milke's numbers are incorrect.

I will be the first to say that the one article was written by the Fraser Institute so I am aware of bias. So I am actually looking to see if someone has numbers that contradict what that article said.

Exactly!

Where was water treatment funding stated in the treaties?

Where have I stated its a FREE HANDOUT???? Seriously....quote where I said that. I have stated that the items they currently received were negotiated in treaty and are owed to them. I have no problem with that but if you want to lie about what I said instead of actually debate on the points presented then go for it. The agreements the government made are in the treaties....there for everyone to read. Please....show me where the government has short changed them. If you feel like bringing up examples or citations to support your unsubstantiated opinion then please do so. Otherwise, please stop your incessant whining. The simple fact is that the problem is that the AFN believes the treaties were meant to be an all encompassing funding when clearly they are not. They are meant to provide the very basics and from that the First Nations are to supplement the rest....just like any other normal society. Again....at any point the First Nations can come on over to Canada if they feel its that much better. The invite is always there. Instead, they choose to isolate themselves and churn up the discussion with their 'nation to nation' banter, the whole time acting like they are some separate country but then whining about why we don't treat them the same as other Canadians. They are certainly entitled to their treaties but in my mind....those treaties are screwing them over big time!

Please provide citations to back your claims. The article I read on this states the following: http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/milke-the-facts-about-aboriginal-funding-in-canada If the above claims the article makes are correct, then the amount of funding they receive is actually above the averages. On top of that, the government has kicked in extra

Oh no...I have certainly heard of them and also know they only make up about $1900 per capita. https://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp In total, Canada spends around $7500 per person on all program spending which INCLUDES these transfers to provincial and municipal governments. This is the number that you need to compare to what the Feds give to First Nations. According to this article, the funding given to First Nations averages $9,056 per capita....or about $1500 more per person. Again....one should not make apples to apples comparisons about how much WE get versus the First Nations. The reason they get what they get is due to the treaties and the agreements made. Having said that, the reason they are limited to what they get is for the exact same reason I would like to see a citation showing where you get this $7k per year number. Even in this article defending Attiwapiskat, they show that the Federal Government gave $17.6M per year for approximately 1900 people which equals about $9263 per year. This number is even higher than the average stated above. Add to the fact that the province kicks in an additional $4M per year for reasons that I don't know about so won't comment.