KrustyKidd

People who enjoy hunting, target shooting, collectin and biatholon would differ with you. As would those who are into history, particularly our county's history. Guess you decide what is importent for them to appreciatate. Have to send them a fax to let them know they are wrong, and you, of course, are right. Wonder Riff, should we also send lettergrams to the people who bought ladders. You know, the tool designed for safety that kills three times as many people per year than the gun, which is specifically designed to kill? How about the off road vehicles? Chainsaws and so on and forth? Hmmmm, also, how many people are getting killed each year from registered or unregistered long guns compared to pistols which have been registered scince the thirties? How many of those pistols were registereed? You don't have a damm clue do you? Bring something to this debate besides hatred of freedom. I want to know what basis you have for being so willing to throw freedom away. I don't see any need for body tatoos, they might promote HIV. See how stupid this can get when we walk on each other? The government loves it. Makes them think they are making progress when all they are doing is cornering all society into a cage. I'm no Lion, guess I'm just an agressive form of domesticated animal as I don't fight too much. One thing I do recognise is a cow though. Are you Guernsey or Jersey? LOL, neither it seems. A dictator! Only Riff shall decide what we deem fun. Only Riff shall decide what is acceptable behavior. Only Riff shall decide whether we all like something or not. Only Riff shall decide if something is a freedom worth defending. Free my mind Riff. Free me .................

Thousands of new fields are being opened every year. Private enterprise has taken over larger companies, this is a product of freedom. Unemployement equals opportunity in many cases. Automation means less people toiling, more people need to service the toilers for entertainment, recreation and travel. Maybe Michael Moore is giveing away free books to entertain the unemployed as a gesture of goodwill? If you only do one thing then you can only work in one place. Better find that place or guess what? You are going to be unemployed! Do two things then you are twice as likely not to be unemplyed. Work for less and know how to do five things then guess what? A whole beautiful worllld opens up. One in which you can work anywhere, for anybody at anytime. MAybe find a job you really enjoy. I know that in 31 years of work I've only been unemployed twice and both times out of choice. I've always found a job, good paying unskilled job. Mind you, I've travelled, taken hard jobs, jobs where the weather was cold or hot but I've always worked when I wanted. I guess that for one who wants to stay with his or her family that employment is tough. The market for stay at home Nuclear Phyisists is slim but hey, nobody said this world was fair. To be fair though, every place I go to in the States they are looking for help. I guess a lot of those three million people don't like to travel. If that's the case, guess they don't really want to work either. I know I worked in the oil fields for two years. Fed the family pretty good but I sacrificed a lot. BTW Boo Hoo

Aside from the usual and easily disproved misinformation you post here GEE, YOUR CONTENTION ABOUT THE USA WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MINORITIES, CITIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WOULD IT RIFF? You have never been to America have you? Spent time in a town (which comprise most of America vice the large cities) and seen the people, met them, talked with them, laughed with them. Seen how interested they were in Canada and the rest of the world, seen how much they value human life , joy, laughed at my daughter and loved her accent and marveled at how we lived in such cold. Nope, you see them as red necks. Same as I look at you as small minded I guess. Truthfully, they are enjoying life and being together, none of them have ambitions of owning the world in their image, they just like to be friends with good people. Really Riff, you should get out more. Oh,if you ever do decide to loosen up and meet those you hate, be prepared to become relaxed and unthreatened. Another more serious note: lose the arrogant, judgemental attitude, once outside the superior 'Liberal Bubble' and in the real world, it could get you tuned up PDQ when confronted by normal people.

Raz Yes. The Left loves Fasism, but only if it is opposed to mainstream values. BTW, borrowing your quote for awhile Bro. Love it!

Hmmm. Yes. Hmmm, of course. Yes, serious problem here. Might be time to get the world involved. Yes, the world, hmmmm. Somebody make a note of that. Help Afganistan, now safe for military troops to help aid convoys. Hmmmm. Oh yes, of course. Blame America for making it safe for other countries to be able to send their miltiary to do so. They are at fault. Yes, hmmmm. Indeed. Make a note "Making it look like?" Gee, and what is the rest of the world doing? Not even going through the motions.

Riff etc, etc ....What did I just say Riff? They were wrong, now they are trying to do it right. Like stop living in the past dude. This is a new game. Hang ten and surf with the new wave Daddy O. Now instead of aiding dictators they are trying to spread democracy. Guess you didn't get the news flash. Like I said: Riff Oh, so freeing them from the Taliban was not enough? The billions spent was not enough? The thousands of US soldiers there actively seeking out the remanents of Al Queda and the Taliban are not enough? So where is the world Riff? The 'oh so concerned world?' Next point, as I said the US is in the process of democracy seeding. It will work on Iraq because there is oil to help it. In Afganistan, it needs the help of the world. Go slap the face of the UN here, not the US. They did their part in spades as far as Afganistan is concerned. Canada guards Kabul??????? Wow, 2,000 troops. What a commitment to the people of Afganistan. Go talk to the troops and cheapskate Governments of every nation on earth who havn't moved an inch off their base to help Aftganistan. Talk to France and Germany, talk to those who are so concerned. The US spends 500 Billin, Canada should be spending 50 Billion if they are so concerned. You are blaming the only country doing anything of merit here. Where is the 200 Billion from France or Germany Riff? CC I doubt it too. The idea is to make a few places self sufficient then hope it will spread. If they have to babysit then it is not democracy is it? It is occupation. I certainly do not wish for US troops to be in Iraq any longer than it takes for the place to become strong enough inside and out to withstand the forces working against democracy to win. CC My God, you probably have a PHD or something and I drive a frickin' truck, yet you sound like a Michael Moore parrot or a Sean Pencilhead Jack in The Box. Scince when do those in power, actively engaged in the brutal oppression of a people and the blatent hatred of a third group to deflect attention from their own faults and inability to feed those people ask to have a vote on the subject? CC The groups????? Oh, the thugs in control you mean. Duh on me. The Mullahs, the Warlords, Brutal Dictators and such. The ones who stand to lose their monopoly of total control over the masses if the people can decide for themselves. Yes, I can see where that would be a problem for them. CC As for 1: We will be dead by then if it does. Once one of these groups gets hold of nukes then it's game over. The US will not allow a group from anywhere to detonate a nuke and then play 'Nation Building.' It will be 'lets make a glass parking lot' time as we are under fire. As for 2: Having a vote and deciding one's fate is not a western idea. It is as old as mankind. Oppression, slavery, control as demonstrated by ME leaders both Military and Religious are the opposition and are just as old. Outside intervention is new.

Riff LOL, this is the "CIA" puppet of the Bush administration. But only when you don't like his news, when you like, he is the 'Word Of God.' HE ALSO SAYS THIS RIFF: And, forgive me for not going back to his report from last year, but he stated that he found all sorts of wicked material and equipment that were contrary to Res 687 and 1441. What the heck is your point? Bush is exonnerated, Saddam had the means, reason, and did nothing to disuade the world from thinking he had them. Where is your proof that they did not and do not exist? LOL, you have none, nor did you ever have any. Even that fool Michael Moore said they existed. Per capita. Now, let's move to the different types of foreign aid the US gives. Loans that have little chance of being repaid, Military assistance, Nation building, AIDs relief, Space Exploration and such. There is more to generoustity than the UN or food. None. Have you been living in a cave? Saddam was a threat to it's nieghbors, and hence, US and the world's intrests. Have you seen many "Bring back Saddam!" rallys in Kuwait, Iran, Saudi Arabia or Jordan? No, they were shit scared of him. And, they all did much business with the US and the west. It had nothing to do with WMD or Saddam. It had everything to do with preventing terror. The whole Middle East is a mismanaged political hole. Kings and Tyrants lord it over people with little or no means of feeding, educating or providing for their needs. Dissent is often met with imprisonment, torture or death. It is a dead end place for the normal person. Frustrated, many turn to the only place that gives them hope - Religion. Not the religion that keeps them calm, cool and promotes peace but religion that invokes change, points to an enemy and provides a reason to attack that enemy. The West. The theory is simple. Provide a democracy, provide a means of empowerment to the people and give it a push and hope for the best. If it works, there will be a powerful light in the center of the middle east for all that think there is only hopelessness. If it fails, be prepared to be at war with terror for a long time to come. All the West, not just the US. WMD and Saddam were a dream come true. A perfect excuse to get rid of a dictatorship and replace it with democracy. Nobody liked him, the population would welcome the change, Irq had the means to perpetuate it's own renewal, Saddam provided an excuse. This wasn't planned last year, it was probably in the works scince the mid eighties. As for WMD themselves, heck, did Saddam ever provide an open door policy to allow inspections like he was supposed to? Even in the end when he started to Blix kept on finding stuff that wasn't supposed to be there. He had every intention of resuming production once the US left the region. As for ties with Al Queda, here is a report to the Intelligence Sub Committee. OSAMA SADDAM LINK Quick Summary of report This isn't a game CB, if we fail in Iraq that means that Militent Islam will take over. Not just the country of Iraq but the entire region. Our former 'Thug' buddies, whom we supported in the past for the wrong reasons are on the way out. The world has changed, we have a region wide religion that has a militent wing that is embraced by desperate people who have no choices. They are angry and controlled by people who feel that the Infidel must be destroyed or submit. If we can't give them an alternative then we and our children are doomed to fight them everywhere for years. If Iraq can become a sucess then that will be one anchor in the ME that will help spread democracy. Democracy, an idea that has had a sucessful history of feeding people better than any other form of government. If it does not work we will be screwed. What is happening here is not a war on Iraq. It was a removal of a dictator so that democracy could be placed in a country that had everything going for it to enable it to work. This is a bold move to show the people of the middle east that there is a hope for them and that millitant islam is not the way to go. If this fails, Militent Islam will become the way for them to go. America and the West will probably retreat from the Middle East altogether and wait for them to attack us here. When they attack we will then carry out a real war against whoever attacked us and those that harbored them. I know you don't see it this way but this is relative peace compared to what may happen if Iraq fails. Oh, one last point; Rockerfeller, the Vice on the Senate Intelligence Sub Committee, has, with all the intelligence agencies that America has to offer tried to implicate Bush and the Adm for lying, falsifying intelligence and such yet cannot make anything stick. On the contrary, he has implicated himself as working against the Administration and his postition is in jeapardy. If Bush is full of it, there are millions of Dems who are far better able to provide proof than you who continually fail.

I'm in the Choir there. Maybe I know you. I believe that there is a difference. If you want to expand to this point, yes. Let's do so. However, I believe that sloth, apathy are the opposite of ambition. Ambition is a virtue. Greed is a type of ambition. Sloth and apathy are trade offs for not being ambitious in a certain matter. It's all inter connected.

I voted reform when Manning was in charge. Then watched as the party changed and stabbed him in the back on the way out the door. I watched my CA MP carry out one of her first official functions and vote along with the Liberals for her own pay raise, even though many of her coleagues didn't. Then I watched as Day took over. He got stabbed in the back by the 'revolutionaries' and then, booted out of the lead spot. I watched as Mackay took over the New New Conservative party. I barely knew the guy. Now you are trying to tell me that she deserves my loyalty because she is 'more marketable?' Believe it or not, I must live in a box or something, I didn't even know there was a company called Magna until her name came up a couple months ago. Now I'm supposed to like her? Trust her? Heck, let me catch my breath for a minute to try and figure out if I even want to be in a party with all these back stabing SOBs running around. Somebody give me a reality check. Is it just me not being very well informed or is there sanity in all this seemingly treacherous affairs. I mean, I used to be a CA member and now, I no idea of what this new party stands for or even if they are loyal to anyone but themselves.

The Micky D's analogy only applies if it happened when the person was acting as an employee. Scince Priests are always priests the case is true as you state. As for the individual, yes. You go after him and have him put in jail then take the organisation for restitution. Both should go hand in hand. Exactly, the Canadian Government is responsible. I wouldn't be too sure that the Pope is blamless. He is the head of it all. If an SUV has problems, like exploding when the left turn signal is used it is the CEO that ultimitly is responsible. I know he didn't assemble the part but, if it wasn't being done right, he either should have done it himself properly, or sent another to do it right. It is his responsibility to ensure that all his people are doing their job right. Hence, the Pope is directly to blame for it. A harmless old gentle man he is not. A financial kick in the pants is what these people need to make sure they don't walk over all like they have. If the Canadian government had a part to play (which they did) then they should pay as well for the same reasons. They threw these poor people to the wolves and never bothered to do proper followup. That is BS.

No sense having an immigrant come to a new land and expecting him or her to change. Might make for a unified society or something terrible like that. Better to have hundreds or thousands of independent communities separated by language, culture and ideals.

Of course he's going to run. He has an ego to fill. Knows he hasn't a hope but to so he it will allow the Left vote to be split yet even more. As for the glee the Dems have I fail to understand why. Somebody certainly has to win the Race for the party yet it seems quite uncertain who. Scince there seems to be no clear frontrunner for the party, how can the American people expect an inconsequential candidate to present serious opposition to a respected President? Myself, I would be infuriated by the loss of opportunity of my candidate to expouse his visions for the future. They are shooting themselves in the foot here.

Good article. The Golan is negotiable. As a matter of fact it is part of Israel's negotiating process. However, it is the last step, not the first. it cost a lot to take - and keep. It is valuable to both sides militarily, and to Israel, it provides a speedbump to any Syrian aggression. To give it up would be tantamount to having an unguarded border with an enemy that could literally 'lob' munitions on people living in Gallilee. SIX DAY WAR PREAMBLE ARTICLE ON GOLAN

Well Hugo, you havn't gotten off your position of 'all or nothing' so what other stand am I to take? There is no way that I will allow you to get a foot in the door to dictate freedoms on others if there isn't a hint of compromise. Heck! You havn't even gotten to a point where you can discuss this issue without being judgemental. Frankly, after reading your excellent and well balanced posts throughout the past year, you have revealed a side of you which surprises me. Not blustering Hugo. It’s a personal choice. As I said, sometimes I do and other times I don’t. As a matter of fact, it is the exception in my sex life rather than the rule. You will note that I said 'sex life.' It is a part of the overall picture and, like yours, does not control me. It is, however, an enjoyable part of life. Choice and novelty complements life. From what you imply from your ridgid stance, anything other than doing your ‘husbandly duty’ in the missionary position in a dark bedroom is abnormal behavior. Dirty, filthy, stinking, animalistic magazines and books. Yep. I can see where this discussion has a lot of give and take. Way to go Hugo. I tried to put this into a perspective so that we could at least START to have a dialogue, and you figure that because it is not your cup of tea, that it is not a freedom another might value. Hence, as you have shown, there is no sense talking on a equal level to one who has a dissenting opinion. Why come on a forum and pretend to participate in discussion at all? Just make a Blog and let us all have YOUR VIEW, and only your view. HUGO Yes, I imagine you do. Why bother to try and understand, compromise. Just wish them away. As for the rest of the points, you aren't interested in discussing anything. As I said before, I have noticed a definite difference in your demeanor scince starting this thread with you. I leave you to it.

And they all have one thing in common. They run on a platform of simply 'hate Bush' and have not given any details of what and how they plan to effect a new government if they win a presidential election. DEMOCRATIC HOPEFULS POLICY - GOOGLE SEARCH If I was a Democrat, I would certainly be concerned about details. The way to win an election is to show how you plan to make a country better, not how much hatred you have for another individual.

HUGO Is it? Do you know me personally and my views on all things? What a presumptuous comment. HUGO I already told you Hugo, I do not think that you are a 'busy body' and now I am telling you that you are not , in my eyes a 'control freak.' My point is, that in the realm of preserving freedom we have to be careful what we do. Well intentioned , reasonable actions for morality by a few, may easily errode the rights of others. Freedom is a mosaic, all things are intertwined, like a chain, which broken link will make the device fail? The fact of what you and what I find morally acceptable is as you said 'on the same scale.' That I am fairly certain of. We have to keep our minds open to things that may be reasonable to others as well. HUGO Try looking at it from another point. Which ones are worth taking freedom away and which ones are not. HUGO My opinion - again: KK That is what I will tolerate within society at this moment. I acknowlege that it is a broad interpretation but realise that 'harming another physically' and taking away another's freedom' encompass much. My opinion is based on the fact that we are all responsible for our actions. There are systems in place to take care of those who either break the rules of society or do not understand them. As an example, drunk driving. Do we ban alcohol? Ban cars? Or do we simply use the legal sytem to control the individual? Let's get into rights and freedoms. As an example, a homosexual would find nothng interesting about a hetrosexual porn medium and might find it acceptable to censor. I in kind for him. A rock star might find the evening news obsene with violence and all while a right winger may find his lyrics unacceptable. Soon, if all have their way, nobody can do anything. A silly analogy of course, but it does have certain merits and illustrates the basis of my reluctance to simply say that anything I don't approve of or like should be banned or outlawed. Now, to the sideline of strippers and all; what do you consider them? Erotica? I find that anything that is designed to sexually stimulate or get a reaction is pornography. As well, what do you can a prostitute? Porn or business? How about those places where guys call for phone sex? What are they?

Sorry Michael, that would be sharing the same ethics. Didn't mean to confuse you. I'll have to be more careful in the future.

K'sensual Kruella brought this up as she was spoon feeding me Fois Gras (she told me it was spam otherwise ....). Anyhow, I told her of those who are uappreciative of our good fortune to have the US in this world. She made a simple statement that I would like to present to all: "If they don't like the US and think they are that terrible, who do they think would be a better nieghbor?" I said that after she poured a couple shots of bourbon into me that I would ask, here I am. Considering the military protection, economic dynamics, mutual ethological views, religious views, language, culture, racial similarities that we share with the US: would you be happier with another country being there? Would you prefer to have an Iraq under Saddam next to you? How about a Saudi Arabia, France, China? What would it be like? Would we still maintain a "Unique Canadian Status?" Or would we be facing east five times a day with our Muk Luks hanging aroud our necks and speaking Chinese in a big hurry?

I try my best to make all my decisions based on strength rather than weakness. While strong enough to take on failure I use success as my motivation. In order to do this you have to have resiliency and tools. Canada has the resiliency but in this case lacks the tools. When looked upon for aid the government must go through a waffle act of wondering if the public wil stand another bypassing of military purchases for a year or so in order to come up with the money.. When asked to participate in Iraq you want to believe that the possibility that having zip to contribute may have had more to do with our decision than what we truely believe.

Health: Top 100 Spending (public) 1. Germany 7.9% (1999) 4. France 7.3% (1999) 5. Norway 7.0 (1999) 6. Denmark 6.9% (1999) 9. Canada 6.6% (1999) 15. United Kingdom 5.8% (1999) 17. United States 5.7% (1999) 25. Portugal 5.1% Not much difference between 6.6 and 5.7. Least not as much as some would have us believe. Healtth: Top 100 Spending (private) 1. United States 7.1% (1999) 2. Greece 3.6% 3. Korea, South 3.0% (1999) 4. Mexico 2.8% 5. Netherlands 2.8% (1999) 6. Switzerland 2.8% 7. Canada 2.7% (1999) 8. Italy 2.6% (1999) 9. Australia 2.6% 10. Germany 2.6% (1999) 11. Portugal 2.5% 12. Belgium 2.5% (1999) 13. Austria 2.3% (1999) 14. Norway 2.2% (1999) 15. France 2.0% (1999) 16. New Zealand 1.8% (1999) 17. Finland 1.7% (1999) 18. Hungary 1.6% 19. Japan 1.6% 20. Ireland 1.6% (1999) 21. Spain 1.6% 22. Slovakia 1.5% 23. Denmark 1.5% (1999) 24. Poland 1.5% (1999) 25. Turkey 1.4% See here where the public figures are enhanced by the private. Food for thought. Crime: Total crimes (per capita) 1. Dominica 111.99 per 1000 people 3. Finland 102.3 per 1000 people 7. United Kingdom 86.5 per 1000 people 8. United States 84.39 per 1000 people 11. Canada 77.63 per 1000 people 12. Germany 75.25 per 1000 people 13. Norway 72.94 per 1000 people 14. France 63.11 per 1000 people 18. Italy 38.22 per 1000 people Crime: Top 100 Murders (per capita) Country Description Amount 1. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people 2. Poland 0.06 per 1000 people 3. United States 0.05 per 1000 people 4. Finland 0.03 per 1000 people 5. Slovakia 0.03 per 1000 people 6. Portugal 0.02 per 1000 people 7. Hungary 0.02 per 1000 people 8. Korea, South 0.02 per 1000 people 9. Iceland 0.02 per 1000 people 10. France 0.02 per 1000 people 11. Czech Republic 0.02 per 1000 people 12. Australia 0.02 per 1000 people 13. Canada 0.02 per 1000 people 14. United Kingdom 0.01 per 1000 people 15. Italy 0.01 per 1000 people 16. Spain 0.01 per 1000 people 17. Germany 0.01 per 1000 people Definitely right about the murder part though. I wonder if it has to do with cities as the US has a lot of big ones? If so then this would be a misleading stat as most people live outside of cities and would give a skewed rating.

Rob Reiner in Iowa on Friday addresing the crowd "When I say Howard, you say Dean!" he shouts. Reiner - "Howard!" Crowd - "Dean!" Reiner - "Howard!" Crowd - "Dean!" This goes on and on for about five minutes until Dean shows up. Gobbels - "Seig!" Crowd - "Heil!" Gpbbels - "Seig!" Crowd - "Heil!" This goes on and n until Hitler shows up. And last week these clowns were comparing Bush to Hitler? I told you about the old vet that told Dean that maybe he should concentrate on what he planned to do intead of merely attacking his neighbor (Bush) in Iowa. Dean looked every bit the man who was going to jump off the stage and beat the old dude to a pulp. "George Bush is not my neighbor!" he shouted. The old guy was caught off guard and started to say "See, that's the attitude I'm talking about." When Dean shouted at him to "You sit down." then shuoted "You've had your say, now I'm going to have mine!" then went on with how Bush is going to be sent back to Crawford Tx. Great way to bond with your constituents LOL. Make them think you will beat the tar out of them if they disaggree with you. None of Clarks former Military buddies will back him and have said so. His reason for being fired will surely come out so I don't take him seriously as a Presidential candidate. the only thing I can see is him being VP for Hillary. As for Bush, he's stupid like a fox. He knows the election is in the bag but wants to make sure. None of the Republicans are going to vote Dem so all he is doing is makng sure that a large block of Hispanics don't go for the Dems by bringing in that Border thing. Thirty million votes taken away - bang! Same with the drug bill. In the meantime, he comes out smelling like a rose while the left froths, rants and raves. He sits there looking like a President. Bush 04, Powell 08! Duh, what am I thinkng, Powell is black and Republicans hate minorities. Clarence thomas, Condelizza Rice. Yup, only the Dems can feel sorry for them but then, only the Republicans treat them as equals.

He already has it. Iraq is on track and Bush will be remembered in two ways by two thought camps. One, as an ichon of strength and determidness to do what is right in the face of world opposition and the other who lower the evil that was Hitler in order to compare him to an elected President in a democratic country. A man who had the courage to take on an undertaking that would have made people like Cretien and Gore crumble and compromise. End result if they were in charge: another Viet Nam, Saddam with Nukes in a few years or a continual US baby sitting job and eternal sanctions on Iraq. Millions more would have died. Really, I don't think the attention of America is anywhere but the ME right now. The Space/Moon thing In my opinion was as it was given; an anouncement to show that other things are happening in America. They are great enough to do many things at once. Yes, it was an election thing but that is the nature of a politician. What thing that a public figure does or says is not?

I agree with the first part of your statement. I shall just list the countries that rated higher in my 'world human rights guide' (they account for freedom, justice systems, and equality measures)Higher than the US for freedom, eqaulity and justice: Australia Austria Belgium Canada Costa Rica Denmark Finland Greece Netherlands New Zealand Norway New Guinea Portugal Sweden Switzerland United Kingdom Uruguay I deliberately left off France and Germany as these would be highly debatable to the right wing. My goodness Lonius. Seems I have caught you misrepresenting evidence. Here below is the identical the chart you used. With scores this time. Seems that the reason USA placed where it was is simply for ease of catagorizing - ALPHABETICAL ORDER. STAT SITE Top 100 Civil and political liberties 1. Australia 6 (2001) 2. Austria 6 (2001) 3. Canada 6 (2001) 4. Denmark 6 (2001) 5. Ireland 6 (2001) 6. Finland 6 (2001) 7. Iceland 6 (2001) 8. Netherlands 6 (2001) 9. Norway 6 (2001) 10. New Zealand 6 (2001) 11. Portugal 6 (2001) 12. Sweden 6 (2001) 13. Switzerland 6 (2001) 14. United States 6 (2001) 15. Uruguay 6 (2001) 16. Argentina 5.5 (2001) 17. Belgium 5.5 (2001) 18. Costa Rica 5.5 (2001) 19. Estonia 5.5 (2001) 20. Czech Republic 5.5 (2001) 21. France 5.5 (2001) 22. Germany 5.5 (2001) 23. Hungary 5.5 (2001) 24. Italy 5.5 (2001) 25. Japan 5.5 (2001) Let's see, USA 6 same as all above making it the tops in a tie for Democracy and all. Here's another from the same site" Top 100 Civil and political liberties 1. Finland 6 (2001) 2. Sweden 6 (2001) 3. Ireland 6 (2001) 4. Iceland 6 (2001) 5. United States 6 (2001) 6. Switzerland 6 (2001) 7. New Zealand 6 (2001) 8. Norway 6 (2001) 9. Canada 6 (2001) 10. Portugal 6 (2001) 11. Austria 6 (2001) 12. Australia 6 (2001) 13. Netherlands 6 (2001) 14. Denmark 6 (2001) 15. Japan 5.5 (2001) 16. Belgium 5.5 (2001) 17. Germany 5.5 (2001) 18. Poland 5.5 (2001) 19. United Kingdom 5.5 (2001) 20. France 5.5 (2001) 21. Italy 5.5 (2001) 22. Spain 5.5 (2001) 23. Slovakia 5.5 (2001) 24. Hungary 5.5 (2001) 25. Czech Republic 5.5 (2001) Gee, this one puts the US way up above France and Germany. What happened here I wonder? Mammon losing ground? And lo and behold! France and Germany were behind because they SCORE LOWER! More stats to show how the US is not the first in crime: Crime: Top 100 Frauds (per capita) 1. Germany 10.76 per 1000 people 2. United Kingdom 5.34 per 1000 people 8. Canada 2.69 per 1000 people 10. France 2.39 per 1000 people 14. United States 1.33 per 1000 people 25. Greece 0.04 per 1000 people Top 100 Burglaries (per capita) 5. United Kingdom 13.99 per 1000 people 7. Canada 9.2 per 1000 people 10. United States 7.48 per 1000 people 13. France 6.21 per 1000 people 18. Japan 2.33 per 1000 people 23. Korea, South 0.06 per 1000 people Top 100 Car thefts (per capita) 1. Australia 7.12 per 1000 people 3. United Kingdom 5.67 per 1000 people 6. France 5.05 per 1000 people 7. Canada 5.02 per 1000 people 8. Italy 4.23 per 1000 people 9. United States 4.09 per 1000 people 14. Japan 2.44 per 1000 people 22. Germany 1 per 1000 people 23. Hungary 0.99 per 1000 people Top 100 Embezzlements (per capita) 1. Czech Republic 1 per 1000 people 7. Switzerland 0.32 per 1000 people 13. United States 0.06 per 1000 people 14. Japan 0.01 per 1000 people Top 100 Convicted (per capita) 1. Finland 33.4 per 1000 people 3. United Kingdom 23.39 per 1000 people 4. France 17.9 per 1000 people 8. Canada 9.28 per 1000 people 11. Germany 6.55 per 1000 people Top 100 Rapes (per capita) 1. Australia 0.8 per 1000 people 2. Canada 0.75 per 1000 people 3. United States 0.32 per 1000 people 6. United Kingdom 0.14 per 1000 people 7. France 0.14 per 1000 people 15. Germany 0.09 per 1000 people 25. Japan 0.02 per 1000 people I'll give you one more chance Prove this or retract it. Show us how there is a 'Church of Mammon.' Show us the difference between greed and ambition. For your point to be correct, you must first prove that Freedom equality and justice are gone in the US. Then you must show how it has been replaced by greed. Otherwise you are simply ranting. Right on Lonius! Poor Lady needs a good romantic meal as do we all. Now, do us all a favor while you are singing and boiling the pasta, steak with shrimp and dry red wine. Put her on the forum so she can debate for you, as you are losing in a big way here.

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Bush declared major combat over. That meant the 150 thousand 'armed to the teeth' soldiers stooped in their tracks and changed roles to a police force. They kept the same uniforms so that they would be rocognizable and did not continue on destroying anything that stood in their way as they advanced. Now they are protecting a country as best they can while it is set up for a transition to a democraticly elected Iraqi government. Their mission is clear, to enable the Iraqi people even if it means being taken out themselves. Don't you think it is about time you give these brave men and country some credit? When they take more casualties in 'peace' then they do in war does that not tell you something about the commitment they have to make sure that they are doing everything they can to appear non violent? We all know what they are capable of, to think they couldn't destroy the people easily is a falicy. That is not what they came for.