KrustyKidd

Then he stabbed it in the back. Craig Good point. We have foreign policy that can be backed up or we don't. Give us some proof, don't use stats as they will hurt you bad. If it's a promise from the Liberals then I have to say that it must be true. Then go and laugh.

Got to get some proof Black Dog, please. So we are to become isolationist in the world? Recall all embassies and business contacts? Not a wise move as trade would be taken over by countries able to enforce their theologies. We would suffer as a people in all levels. Protect our ambassadors and civil servants in adverse situations such as Hati and whatever. To simply send a care package and hope it gets there is pretty simplistic and gains no respect from either the adressees or the warlords who comandeer it is fairly useless. To hand over the security or our foreign endeavors to another nation is BS as well. Therefore, we need a real military for this reason alone.

I like to make money so I can help people as well as myself and family. I work harder and faster so I can accumulate the tools necessary to do this. If I lived on a patato commune I would bring in enugh to feed me and a couple of other families, no doctors, no parks or nice stuff liek that. The government (which of course would be completely honest) would take a few things from me. In return they would not provide for our defence as they don't now with lots of money, and, they would send a lowly motivated doctor to my commune every now and then to check us out. To get better treatmen I would probably have to give him something of value, yet what would I have? Ah! My good wishes, we all work on that right?

because the worlds population is growing way too fast. the US estimates the pop will be between 9 and 12 BILLION by 2005. add to this nonrenewable resources are being consumed faster and faster, farmland disappearing, water being contaminated, disease and weapons move faster and faster. in short, in most of the world things will get harder and harder every year. Canada is an oasis in all of this. but africa, the middle east, and maybe even asia-pacific regions are on average going to get more poor and more desperate. Riff, they have always been desparate. Ever think about why they are? I did, it's because they are fuedalistic, tribal, dictatorial, ultra religious and just plain lawless and disorganised. Do you rreally think the US rec ontinued the Gulf War to help the people of Iraq? Get a few barrels of oil that they themselves have sitting there at home? They did it to start what they hope will be part of a chain reaction of a political change to prevent the truth that you speak of. Amongst the thousands of intellectuals in the states some of them actually saw this years ago. 911 made it apparent that it was time to start action, Madrid has confirmed that it isn't simply the evil US that is to blame, but rather the inaction of all. I don't think it's going to stop there either so keep that sandwhich board oiled up.

Who's "they"? LOL, you said them first 'the public.'

Like I said, MIT. He was a prof without a goatee Riff. When I was Airborne we would look at these 'LEG' staff officers who came in on a tour from HQ with pity. They didn't even have the shmick to bring a canteen cup to grap a coffee with half the time, they were so out of touch with what was happening on the ground. We didn't even bother to adress them as they had no power or ability to deal with our world as theirs was far away and not based on the reality of what was the root reality They belonged up with the planners and all, like where this guy evolved from. And that's where theyall returned to after their little 'field trips.'

And it is not borne by the professors at MIT either. Like get with the program here! It is borne by young, strong men and women who have vowed to stand by their country right or wrong. This is such bullshit that it can only come form a rabid rhetorical leftist, not a thinking rational being who has vowed to protect their country and carry out the orders of their commander in chief. Hence, a non soldier. . To add such drivel to what is supposed to be a valid point is crap, LOL. Guess there's a lot of that going around, Rockerfeller still has his after being found to be hiding intelligence information that endangered the troops so that he could backstab Bush. How about Kerry voting against the bill that would buy protective vests for the boys? Man, I can hardly wait fo r the election. Maybe these people will shut up once the US people either endorse Bush and his decisions or else let the Democrats explain why they are still in Iraq. At least we might have some normal political discussion happening. I agreed with this one Right, I also would add to build a democraticly elected government that would work for the people and give them an opportunity to have a life free from tyranny. Hopefully give them a reason not to put on a belt bomb. I suppose that living without hope, watching your kids grow up as virtual slaves is a reason not to blame the US for not takeing action? This was written by somebody with a sandwhich board jamming their back side. Not a real person who has endured hardship, seen the horrors of battle. It is filled with idealogical rhythm and rant that has no actual bearing on reality and plays so heavily on emotion and passion that if there is any reality therre, it is obscured. Come to think of it, why the hell am I even replying to it? Damm! Got me again.

Not quite. There are some facts. I ordered it today. I just finished reading Chomsky's Hegemony or Survival and am onto Hanity's 'Deliver us From Evil." Beats cartoon humor sites.

Got this E mail from an aquaintence who has just written a book entitled "The Smoking Gun" - Sam Pender. He talked about Iraq being a series of incidents that all add up to potential for a smoking gun and then concluded it with this - Intresting.

Why do you think that they will not be to stop the evil aspirations of dictators or global terrorists?

Know any countries that don't? It seems to me that the US is simply more sucessful at it than others.

$2 a gallon? You be dreamin boy! It's going far higher than that. Anyhoo, just want to ask you and all the rest who hate the Royal Bastards what the Oil Dependent World (rich and poor people) would look like if they were gone. What sort of common sense type folks would take their place. Maybe a Saddam type good guy, (tap on, tap off,tap on, tap off) or a crazy OBL one. You know, light it all on fire to please Allah and make sure everybody starved waiting for US money to buy them food. Then when Europe freezes in the dark and sends their own troops to 'regime Change' whoever is there the US will cry 'no blood for oil. They are a necessary evil considering the evil that is in the wings.

Welcome. Most of us here act like we are ten, hope that you are not too mature for us. Back to the thread. I agree, 9 11 should not have been used like that. Iraq, Afganistan and his actions for homeland securtiy yes, but to use the backdrop of Americans dying - uh uh.

It all equalizes itself though. On the other end of the States they sucessfully got rid of the Ten Commandments and other schools are making reference to God a no no. This guy is just a dinosaur that doesn't know the Leftist Meteorite has struck. BTW, I think it backward as well but what would you say if you were in charge, I was he, and said that in order to not have that placed in the textbooks, that I wished to enable children to have a half hour religious period, religion of their choice (or a study period for those so disinclined?) I mean, it is contreversial to a religious person, however, religion is contreversial to an athiest. Why not have disclaimers in the Bible?

Good post Ned. I often wonder what it would be like if 911 ever happened as well. I agree that he is no Chomsky but also agree that he is smart enough to seek advice and not afraid to take it. I feel that when you are that high up on the food chain you are smarter than most normal people anyhow and the difference between one thing or another is a combination of luck and public sway. What will be interesting to see, provided he is re-elected is what new weapon the Left will use in place of 'Illegal Government' and how he has gone against the wishes of the people of the USA. I don't know if I posted this here before but i feel personally that he has a severe character flaw that would make him unsuitable to me as a friend, however, I don't imagine that i will ever have to deal with that.

OMG! You are making a case for Bush Sr being great? Make it please, liven up this thread a bit, it's dying.

Riff, you are not are not off the mark for the direction this discussion is going but we should get some things straightened out a little before we get into it. first, oil will never be $2 to get out of the ground. Storage, separtation, transport, pipeline, infastructure building and all costs bring that up beyond 10- 15 a barrel. Next is the Hubbard Peak I reffered to, with it you $40 a barrel could easily move to $200 a barrel within 10 years. (bet you like that figure for your argument) Next is that OPEC controls the price of oil and such, the production. With America getting most of it's oil from South America Iraqi oil is unlikely to change the present situation for the US. Unless of course the US does somethng 'Unamerican' and breaks a deal. To date, 80% of the oil contracts from Iraq has gone to European interests so that hurdle has to be overcome to make this argument fly. You said it is obvious but it is not. By the time oil reaches critical amounts the world will have gone through some changes, very dramatic changes. For the US to be sitting on their own oil (which they have protected so far, and have gone to great lengths to avoid using) and to be the sole recipient of the world's life blood is ludicrus. You think a lot of nations don't like them now? If your theory is correct, it will be them against everybody, Britain included. My contention is that things are as I have stated, Iraq took place for political reasons to empower people and hope it spread. The US will continue to put military, economic and aid pressure on nations to prod them to deal with terrorism and support or non support of same. The oil is a reason for the war in that if Iraq had none, then what the hell would the people use to build their country? It was a tool they could use to make the freeing of Iraq stay it's course as money can do wonders. I I look for truth, if you can provide some non rhetoric based items that subtanciate your argument then I will work with them. As the ones you brought forward, they are still without merit, even with the figures more true to life. there's a lot of hurdles to jump through to make the argument you are trying to make, I'll work with you though. BTW, what did you think of that Euro thing I threw out?

Udawg you dog you, congratulations! You have thrown in a new twist, better than most of the rhetoric chanting leftist puppets ever did. Probably wrong though, but, maybe together we can explore it. I will enhance the horseshoe you threw to see if it get's us any closer to your theories. Hubbard Peak and al predicts that withing ten years the oil will start to price in an upward bell curve. Big things are going to happen in our chilren's time. As you have atutely observed, the price of oil at this time no longer reflects the price at which it will be say, five years from now. Very smart UD. Question is, is it? Or is it not? The other question is, is it possible to control it throughout the turmoil which will occur during the next thrity years or so? Your next point about money was interesting as well. I just heard it from another right wing type. It has to do with the control aspect and flexing of global reach to stop the Euro from becomming the predominent currency. Michael Moore would love to go on about that but he is not smart enough to stop attacking his home team to figure out the implications world wide. Let's see what we can figure.

Whitey? I should have reported that post you racist. Yes Hugo, that is my belief as well. They all acted out of selfishness. Not a stereotyped selfishness but a selfish need to help others. I know that every anti US type here has seen this ad in the states (as it is all over the interstates on billboards) as they travel so extensively there and so get their US insight. It pictures famous people like Winston, Mohamed Ali, Cristopher Reeves and Mother Theresa. The caption on all of them reads "reaching beyond yourself." And yes, all were selfish, otherwise they would have delegated or faded away into their own pain.

LOL, welcome to politics Riff. Churchill is dead, I suppose you expected another great leader like Cretien or Martin? Comon, name some good ones that are alive today, dare you.

NOT MUCH TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT HIM He is the kind of guy that I would not like. However, after Iraq broke the cearfire he made a good call. Lucky? No, I think he had good advisors and was smart enough to listen as like you, I really doubt his integrity or intelligence.

Yes, I agree. They should have had another resolution stating that the previous resolutions were actually resolutions in case anybody thought that the resolutions were not resolutions. Is that the kind of consensus you meant? Or did you mean that resolutions are only effective until some of the UN people disagree, in which case they are null and void without even comming to a new resolution? Help me out with that one Riff. OK Riff, you must be vying for joke of the day. Tell us all how the US, footing a bill of 500 billion dollars is going to profit from Iraq's oil. There is what, 100 billion barrels? At $30 a barrel, if the stuff jumped out of the ground on it's own, flew to the tankers and stored itself, it would be worth thirty trillion. There are thrre problems that I will explain ONE LAST TIME TO YOU. First the stuff comes out slow, three million barrels a day. That's $100 million gross a day comming out of the ground. At that rate it would take thirty years to get it out. Second, you don't get $30 for the barrels. There is an oil infastructure to pay for and fix, tanker fees, pumping and drilling fees and Iraq must be rebuilt. At best, there might be a profit of $5 per barrel to be paid to the US. That would leave a profit of five trillion or ten times what the US expended over a thirty year period. However, at the rate the stuff is pumped the US would recover $15 million a day, that's a $500 million investment with a recovery time of 15,000 days or forty years without interest. Add interest and the debt/investment will never be recovered. A lot can happen in forty years Riff. Can you get a mortgage for that? Third and last (because I'm tired of this aspect of your forgetfullness) take a look at an item called 'The Hubbard Peak." Probably half of the stuff that is in the ground will unlikely be recovered. It gets harder and more expensive to pump as the pools get shallower. At a certain point, they simply don't bother. The probability is that Iraq actually has only half of what they have. Hence, not only is it a unrecoverable investment, but only 50% guaranteed. This is your only good point. I will debate on this one if you wish as it has valid merit. The rest is foolish.

UDawg Yes, it would be better to stop the rapist before he did the crime. Again in Iraqw's case. Long had Saddam had a history of brutal violence and invasion of nieghbors. Not complying with UN resolutions he was a danger to all. If he was the rapist in question, Saddam was a molesting pervert waiting to strike again. as for victims of rape, the best defense is to either avoid rapists or have society put people with a history of it away, such as the US did Saddam. UDawg Or when they are not adhering to orders from a higher court or authority such as Iraq. Suppose that a criminal was surrounded and was told to come out and surrenderYes. If he does not comply, what do you do? In Iraq's case I would ask that you show me how the above posted resolution excerpts were obeyed by Iraq.

Thank you Hugo for explaining in my absense. It is the individual in society that is not being held responsible for their own actions. From the base it moves upwards to the Government itself. Pellikin, I am not talking about car insurance, rather basic everyday $20 - $30 a month personal coverage for socks, underwear and toasters. In ordrer to put grampa's rubber on the road,you must have this insurance. It would seem that some people need to provide proof of personal insurance so that they can be permitted to leave mom's basement and move in together. Before you tell me that 20 bucks is beyond reach for some, try applying for a part time gig at Micky D's. Three hours a week will provide enough for a month's insurance. Surely this is not beyond people's means or ability? If it is, then there is no hope for us or them.

MH True Michael, there is nothing wrong with going against the will of the people from tme to time in order to get something done that will benifit them. However, the end result must have an honorable purpose that seves the people. I see no evidence of this in all the money wasting scams and rip offs that are happening. Are you going to tell me that the Liberals are privy to some information that makes a billion unaccounted for dollars with HRDC a smart move? How about the two billion that the gun registry burns, is there a reason that they have been unable to explain to us as to why it makes sense? No. They just throw the money away out of arrogance.