Who's Doing What?

Now you are begining to understand us!!! One HUGE difference though Okwaho. I AM ACTUALLY LIVING ON THE LAND I CLAIM AS MY OWN.

Look buddy. Your people have already put up blockades, caused property damage and economic loss. If you all start coming onto people's property with firearms and forcably removing them, shooting them or starving them out of their homes, you are in a whole new ballgame.

Pupils???

That is the Natives answer to this? More Violence? Or face death by dehydration and exposure? Just exactly how violent do you think you will be allowed to get before you are simply declared terrorists?

The Govt evicting, what thousands ? Hundreds of thousands? voters from their homes. Ya I really see that. Why that could be Harper's next election slogan. "Elect me and I'll get you evicted." Cheaps smokes and gas? Maybe Canadians smokes and gas would be a little cheaper if it wasn't subsidising the Native's Tax-free smokes and gas.

I say, I have property rights to my land, and the Deed says the same, and that is all I need to know. I don't care what paper you want to wave in my face. I will not be forced to leave my land, with some 300 year old treaty I don't recognize as valid. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. Even if it is a valid treaty, the land has already been paid for.

So what are the Natives going to do if Canadians won't leave the land? What if they tell you they don't recognize your ownership of their lands? What will you all do? Become more militant with your demands? If that is your only answer, it won't work.

So you feel you have the right to come on MY land, with a GUN, any time you want too, and start shooting the Wildlife? I don't see that going over too well.

Go ahead and make it an election issue then. Do you really think Canadians are going to elect a govt that wants to hand over billions of dollars for land we already have? Or are they going to elect a govt. that says it will just end this whole mess by making a change to the constitution?

And how is Hezbollah able to do this? Through millions and tens of millions of dollars provided to them from terrorist states like Iran. Hey Argus! Get a clue buddy. Not my problem you missed the program. May I suggest you get informed.

So the land which became Isreal was 66% Jewish in 1948? Really? The numbers from 1946 are totally different. Palestinian Residents of Palestine - 1,339,773 Jewish Residents of Palestine - 602,586 Jewish residents only owned 10.6% of the privately held land. British figures indicate only 23% of all arable land in palestine was owned by Jewish residents . link

Could you clarify? Getting what they deserved as in: What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified? ??????? Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question? oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world. Interesting how Besty asks a question about anti-semitism, and you launch into an attack on Israel. Once again we see a classic example of how the two always seem to be used inter-changeably. That said, your comments about "what kin dof bass-ackwards thinking put's one religious groupsmackl in the middle of another religion's holiest land?" is meant to mean what? Your comments seem to suggest "Jews" should not have "placed" their country in another religious country. See it is precisely that kind of simplistic, black and white comment that makes me wonder, why? Why do you not before you make such comments, try learn the origins of Judaism and its relation to its connection to Israel and then examine the Muslim religion and its concept when it comes to land? If you bothered you wouldn't ask such questions and you wouldn't try simplify the conflict in such a simplistic manner. For the record, long before your analysis and the creation of the State of Israel in 1949, there was this place called Egypt and it had slaves. These slaves led by a guy called Moses, led them on a revolt and then out and to the land that is now referred to as Israel. This guy Moses, (oh yes its true, I watched it on t.v. with Charelton Heston) went up into the mountains and came down with these ten commandments and started a religion where he told people they shouldn't kill each other, commit incest, adultery etc. Yah call him a stickler for rules. In any event as part of this relgion he told the slaves that GOD promised these slaves that they could live in Israel. So in this religion is the precept that GOD promised the land to the Jews and so they have a spiritual link to it. Their very existence is dependent on being connected to that soil. When the Jews got there m there were Phillistines and Cannanites, and some other assorted tribes but these tribes would not have been Muslim or Arab. Follow me so far? The Jews fought many people and settled there. They lived there. People came people went for centuries. Then this guy called Abraham has two children....two sons. See Abe's first wife had problems having a child so Abe gets a mistress and has a son out of wedlock because he's convinced God wants him to have a son. Then after he has his bastard child, his wife is pregnant. So guess what? He sends his bastard son off into the desert with that son's mother and that son sent off into the desert is the origins of the people who become Muslims. So when the Muslims develop and begin their religion, Jews have been in Israel for quite some time and guess what these people called Christians as well. The Romans, Greeks, Turks, come into Israel but guess what, Jews still continue to live there even though many are displaced and move into the rest of the Muslim world or Europe. For your information, in the Muslim conception of the universe, state and religion are not seperate so this notion they have a country in Palestine is pure and utter b.s. Palestine is a no man's land with no soevriegn state-it is a territory administered by Romans, Greeks, Turks, then British. The notion of Jews creating a soveriegn state for Jews in Palestine comes from three sources; i-the Bible and their belief of being spiritually connected to the soil, ii-the fact that Jews are native to this land and have always been native to this land; iii-that as a result of 3,500 years of continuous persecution in Europe and living as second class citizens in a system called dhimmitude in the Muslim world, they wanted to live free from other people's persecution. The British suggest the Jews in Palestine be given a small enclave and the Arabs in Palestine given a small enclave. For the British, this would mean two people who both feel they have rights to the land continously at each other's throats and then of course needing the British to rule them. Ah divide and conquer, works every time. Meanwhile next door, France conveniently creates countries like Syria and Lebanon while Britain slices up countries into neat little boxes like Iraq and Jordan. When Israel is ready to accept its tiny little enclave, the Arab League tells the United Nations and Britain to stuff it and attacks with the express purpose of killing and/or expelling all the Jews. The problem is those Jews just don't die and they fight and in 1949 Israel declares itself a nation,. Its border establoished in 1949 is what is called a defacto border. It was defined by war not by treaty. de facto borders become considered legal if there is a considerable period of time in which they are not challenged. The point is those 1949 borders were always challenged by the Arab League and to this day the majority of the Arab League is still in the state of War with Israel since 1949. Egypt is the only country that has officially engaged in a peace treaty. The West Bank which was seized by Jordan in 1949 but technically that West Bank like all of Palestine was never really defined. Now all this talk of Israel illegally settling or deciding to settle in a Muslim country is pure p.s. Palestine was never a country, it was an undefined land. To this day these pre-1967 Israel borders talked about were never ever recognized by the Arab world and still are not. They are referred to by Arab countries as where Israel should pull back to, but in the same breath these same Arab countries when they tell the Western world Israel should go back to those broders, tell their citizens through their media, that they want all Jews gone. To date no Arab country with the exception of Egypt has ever put in writing, that it defends Israel's right to exist. So Israel is not some isolated incident and the idea of some unreaosnable Jews who deliberately set out to aggravate Muslims. It is quite frankly a return of aboriginal peoples to where they came from. And for you to ask why don't they go some where else, reflects your complete and utter ignorance of why they would go back to this tiny piece of sand. They go back because it is tied to their spiritual destiny. Yes they also go back because the holocaust required systemic and extensive networks of rail-road trains and collaboration of many Europeans and for them after World War Two, remaining in Europe was not an option. For you as a Christian who takes it for granted your country is Christian and the religion and institutions reflect that bias, you can not understand what it means not to be allowed to own land, or engage in certain professions or businesses or to constantly live with people slaughtering you every Christmas and Easter. You don't understand what it is like to listen as every year you are told you are responsible for the murder of Christ and until you convert to Christianity, you deserve everything you get. You do not understand what it is like to live in a Muslim country and be told you muststay in a ghetto and not interact with Muslims and listen as Mullahs and Muftis state that the Koran says that Jews are liars and infidels and made up false stories and that Islam is the only true story. Now I doubt you have read a word I have said, but once and for all, I am so tired of people asking questions reflecting a complete lack of ignorance of why Jews are in Israel and since you won't bother to read up on it, maybe my writing it in these simple terms will help you. And try understand this...for Muslims they see their world flowing from Morrocco to Pakistan and on and on. They don't think of borders. This is a Western concept imported by the French and British to carve out areas of economic influence. True Muslims see themselves as simply united and these borders are absurdities. That is why they have a major problem with Israel. It is to them simply something sliced out of their kingdom and they feel Jews are only there because of something that happened in Europe which is not their responsibility. However that is not entirely accurate because these same Muslims do not want Christians, Hindus, Bahaiis, Zoroastrians and many other religions in their midst either. Today's Muslim countries are not exactly abouyt living in tolerance. When they are not at war with non Muslims they are at war with each other's different sects. If you think that was an attack on Isreal then you need some help. Does anybody on this forum ever actually understand what people post , or do they all just spout off with a bunch of non-sensical trash, while completely ingoring the context of what was said. This is just pathetic. Truly sad.

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That's true. It is Lebanon that should be condemned! For harboring and abetting Hezbollah! And letting them use their own citizens as human shields! Anyway, I won't be surprised to know that those civilians who still continue to stay in their homes after having been warned by Israel are actually supporters of Hezbollah. Hezbollah has acted in much the same way the drug cartels in South america do. They provided schooling, healthcare, clothing, water, food and anything the people of southern Lebanon needed. The Lebanese govt. even admits it cannot provide the essential basic needs as good as Hezbollah. There are definitly Lebanese civilians who support Hezbollah. Did anyone see the news segment where they went into Lebanon, and investigated how Hezbollah provides for the people? There was a maybe 12 yr old girl who was so thankful for what Hezbollah had done for her and her family, she had already decided she was going to devote her adult life to what ever she could do to help them. Very disturbing.

Not a bad location? When was the last time they were the majority in the region? Whoever put the Italians in Europe!? I mean, when was the last time they were the majority in the region!? What about those Japanese? Why on Earth are they there!? They're not the majority in the region!? What kind of stupity puts a nation down somewhere they aren't the majority!? I don't understand! My head hurts! What garbage. If you can't be realistic don't post. Seriously you are way off. Do you always just take something out of context and write a bunch of garbage about it? That wasn't their land. If there had been more Jews than Palestinians then I could see them laying claim to it. But when it was full of palestinians, for hundreds of years, that makes it palestinian land. It is too late to change it now, and we have to deal with what it is, but what was wrong with Wyoming? The Dakotas? Somewhere in Eastern Europe? Western Europe? Western or Northern Canada? South america? They Jewish state could have been made anywhere. Try to not be so rediculous.

Could you clarify? Getting what they deserved as in: What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified? ??????? Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question? oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world. I don't want to talk about who and what land belongs to where or whom. I am wondering about the sentiments of Canadians as a whole. The past cancellation of a prominent Jewish speaker to a university or college somewhere in Canada (sorry, can't remember the details now)....cancelled, due to protests from some other groups. And just reading and listening to the media lately. There seems to be a biased-ness in their reporting. Occasional vandalisations of Jewsih synagogues has been treated lightly. There's no display of outrage among the media...or outpourings of concern that try to garner sympathy for a particular group that is targetted by hate-crimes. Nothing like the coverage given to the Muslims' concern that they become targets anytime some terrorists kill and maim innocent civilians in the name of Allah. And the mid-east crisis now. Lebanese casualties are grieved upon daily.....but casualties among the Jews are all but ignored. Like as if casualties among civilians are not the same...no matter what race or sides. Our major political parties had clearly taken sides....although they try to appear neutral (for the sake of votes I imagine). The reason and root cause of the sudden eruption and escalation of this war is being ignored....both by the media and the political parties in this country! Either that ...or they don't have a sense of wrongness at all. There is nothing wrong about wanting to become neutral. But there is something definitely wrong when we knowingly accept an abhorrent act and throw away our sense of justice in the process. There was/is a radical terrorist group in control of the southern half of the country on their border. I would attack too. I don't care what religion someone is. As far as I'm concerned they are all equally a waste of time. I'm more concerned with ending terrorism.

Not a bad location? When was the last time they were the majority in the region? I don't recall the Crusades being about getting the Holy land back from the Jews. Sorry but they were too gone, for too long. That is like my family laying claim to some patch of land in Scotland, that none of my relatives has seen in almost 300 yrs. The land was already someone elses. How would you like it if the previous owners of your house or the lot it sits on, came back and kicked you out.

I'm out of touch?? You're the one running around with a 300 yr old piece of paper, and thinks it entitles you to Trillions of dollars worth of land.

Where the h*ll did that come from? Nice to see people still like to completely misrepresent what others post. This is disgusting. Just where did you get the idea I was suggesting such things. Admin: What is up with this? This is a complete misrepresentation of my post. It is beyond sickening. The idea of re-opening the death camps is abhorant. Yet this poster is suggesting I am proposing exactly that. What am I going to be accused of being next? A war criminal? Well there's one person for the ignore list. Did it even take ten posts? I have no opposition to a Jewish state, at all. I do think the choice of LOCATION for the Jewish state was about as idiotic a decision that was ever made in the 20th century.

LMAO Not bad at all.

What are you talking about!!! It was your people that made the bad deals under treaty and don't want to own up to them. It's us that is giving to this country it's always never enough! As far as this bull $#%& of racism if we have certain rights it's about Nation-Nation we are NOT Canadian citizens. Would you expect the same rights as your neighbors south of the border? Not Canadian? Somehow I doubt you return any cheques marked Govt. of Canada.

Beautiful! Simply Beautiful. If they ever have a contest for a national slogan enter that. ^

I have had to pay interest, too Rev. Can, on money they were never even owed. Even though I provided proof I owed them nothing and they agreed, I was still charged the accrued interest.

That is your oppinion. Myself, and I'm sure atleast a few million other Canadians think that, that chunk of land IS part of Canada. It has been paid for, if in nothing else than the taxes the natives could have been charged over the last 300 years. How many Natives hunt or fish? Just a rough estimate. Now multiply that number by the cost of the licenses each one would have to buy. How much money every year, is the govt losing because of what basically are racist laws? Where I live the Natives own some of the most valuable property available. They pay no taxes as it is a reservation. If regular "Canadians" were to build on the land, the taxes would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, each and every year. So over the last 100, how much has it cost the govt.? If the Natives can reach 300 years into the past and demand payment for something, then perhaps so should the govt.

I would rather live in a world without terrorists, and some international disapprovement, than live in one with terrorists and despots just so we can keep some cheery international perception of this country alive. When the H*ll did we become Neutral anyway????? WWI????? WWII????? Korea????? I sure some of my great-uncles would be proud to know they died for "Neutrality" We are free nation. We support other nations that want to be free and democratic. I really don't care what France or Germany or anybody thinks of Canada. When we stop standing up for what we know is right, we've already lost. Does anybody think that after Bin Laden is done with America he won't target the next example of western civilization? Then the next after that? Sooner or later Canada is going to be the target. If we get the terrorists sooner, then they can't get us later.