Kindred

Funny how the teachers teaching Social Studies in China can access all that information on the internet. A lot of teachers just download lesson plans and printouts from the internet -

I am a published journalist, I know how to write an article and present facts - I was also instrumental in getting the Northern Tax Deduction passed so I know something about lobbying and influencing people - however when it comes to issues surrounding the disabled and the poor in Canada the Governments turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to them. The media doesnt want to hear about it because they are driven by their advertisers and their preference for content. Its that simple, Editors have guidelines as to what is acceptable in their publications. They arent allowed to publish outside the box. Everytime a media outlet is sold or changes hands the burning question is "how will this affect what we can or cannot publish". I think that in a forum such as this, I can express myself more openly and with compassion to Injusticebuster. I am not here to present dry facts before a tribunal - my intent as you can see in my posts is to present the human, emotional reality of this situation that exists - I have, at least, succeeded in touching Betsy with my "narrative". Straight facts dont do that. I am curious about something, do you represent people who can afford to pay for legal representation or do you do pro bono for these people? How would you represent Injusticebuster in securing employment for him? Most disabled persons want to work, want to be part of society and the labour market in this country, how do we go about seeing that they are accomodated in the workforce? ATTENTION FLEA BAD - Flea bag is a damn good name for you, if you ever want to change that I can think of some others you can use, you are too despicable a person to respond to with any respect or consideration, inf fact I hesitate to use the word "person" in referring to you and addressing your comments...... I believe the rules of the forum are that you add "intellectual content" to the threads here - and not use the forum to vent your ignorance on and insult others.

You are sending links to articles from 1999 regardin Falun Gong, your other link (CIA) show a birth rate of 1.5 children, about the same as Canada. If you are using Google to search good luck, about 99% of your results will be information from the US. No matter how you word your search you will NOT come up with the sites that other search engines will provide. To me that is censorship. I for one am not interested in reading US propoganda. Live From China posted the secretary is expecting her second child, and I met a number of families who had more than one child. Cant argument with reality. You can protest until you are blue in the face, I have been there, Live From China is living there now - you havent been to China, you can only look for "facts" on the internet. (Provided by the US via Google) Furthermore the One Child policy was implimented to curb the growing population, and has never been strictly enforced if you were able to look at this logically, and rationally instead of having a hysterical reaction to "loss of freedom and choice" you might be able to see the merit of the policy, given the population and the problems of maintaining and supporting such a huge population with resources that are, as in all countries, limited - China chose not to become another India, where increasing population has placed on a terrible burden on both governments, and families. The sense behind the policy should be obvious. Millions of people starved to death during the Cultural Revolution in China - does it make sense to let that continue to happen? Of course it doesnt, hundreds of agencies worldwide are involved in trying to teach birth control to impoverished nations. It doesnt take a lot of deep thinking to see the rational and sense behind it. One of the results of curbing its population growth is that China is able to providea good education for the people it does have. Look at India who has had no such restraints places upon its population and its struggle is just to survive, education is on the casualities of this burdeoning population growth ... Herald Tribunemore here http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/03/news/india.php Please dont quote the CIA to me an an authority on what is going on in China. Thats ridiculous - we all know where the CIA stands on any issue. Furthermore we have been to a Christian church nestled in among the sky scrapers in Shanghai, met hundreds of Christians openly meeting and woshiping and China has passed legislation guaranteeing freedom of religion and the right to woship free of harassment and interference. We met openly with our Pastor in coffee shops, Christian symbols and bibles are for sale everywhere - In a country of approx 1.4 billion people Christians DONT count as the MAJOR religion. Freedom of choice for the people of China is NOT defined by cramming Christianity down their throats. The Chinese have their own religions and their own beliefs, and the right to choose. Forcing Christianity on them would be taking away that right. People also have the right to be atheists if they so choose, man's freedom is not defined by being Christian Webiste from China http://www.index-china.com/index-english/xmas-in-china.html

Just found this on another thread, Read more here: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories or monitors your actions and "investigates" content of websites you visit?

Some of my comments are for Temagmi not just aimed at you GC or I would have said "and further more" my error in not being clearer - AMEN

Having said that I will try to post something intelligent without a lot of typos- one of the things I love the most about China is the children. They are so well cared for, so bright, so curious, and so friendly. In many areas we are the first foreigners they have seen and they all come running to look at us, talk to us, every child in China can speak a few words of English, they are all studying English in school. Their parents are so proud of them. They tell their children to come and "talk English" to us. They are so trusting and so friendly. China's greatest treasure IMO. The first question most Chinese will ask is "are you Canadian?" They love Canada and Canadians, they think we are wonderful, kind, generous, peaceful people - go figure 'eh? They ALL say something about how beautiful and clean Canada is .... China is also a very beautiful country, though urban sprawl and reality cant be ignored. Miles of flowers and trees and thousands of parks ....... and art, and statues, and the facades of buildings are sculptured and an amazing thing. So many angels everywhere, statues, building facades -- this surprised me. We have to teach the students coming to Canada that they cant trust all Canadians, we have to teach them about assaults, and not walking alone at night, to keep their doors locked - etc. They are always so surprised to hear this. And we have to teach them that they will encounter racism. They find that very hard to believe. The Chinese people love their country, they have a lot of pride in who they are. Chinese businessmen and wealthy people donate phenominal sums to charities. They are very generous people. very kind and hospitable. One thing they dont have in in China is equality between the sexes. Women still take second place, a woman will stand up and give her seat to a man, let a man push her aside in a queue and is expected to do all the domestic chores. Men are taking a much greater role in child care, this is great to see. Most of the young men seem to be very kind and soft hearted, this is a good thing to see happening. We generally see an unequal division of high achievers in school, with the girls being harder working and making better grades than the boys. Young women are refusing to give in to family pressire and get married, they are putting education and a career first. They want to be independent and not a housekeeper for a husband. Students are very concerned with environmental issues and charity. A group of students in the school we were at last year pooled their money to buy Christmas presents for the poorer rural people in the area. The students from wealthy families are not given large allowances, or cars, and a parent delivering a bicycle to one of them is a major event for them. They are not spoiled rich brats who can just slide through life. Their family's are very important to them and the best compliment you can pay a student is to say "I know your family must be very proud of you". These students havent had a lot of material goods, given their history and you see 20 year olds with teddy bears, Hello Kitties (ni hao mao ) and other "toys" which are still novel to them - all mass produced in China of course. The High School students love Snoopy, (sha-nooby) and Woodstock - Almost every student has a laptop and a cell phone. They live in dorms with dorm supervisors in most schools. They are allowed to leave the school ONLY if their marks are good and only one day a week. Smoking, drinking is just not acceptable behavior. In fact I have never seen a Chinese women smoking, it isnt done in public. (that darn inequality thing again). They usually wear uniforms. TEachers are expected to be well dressed. Some students in public schools often start at 6 AM and go until 5 PM. Many have enforced study hall after dinner, from 6 PM to 9PM. I think its much too hard on the students and would love to see these hours shortened. So many live at school because they dont have time to travel back and forth each day. Canadian schools DONT start at 6 AM, the teachers wouldnt go along with starting that early. Classes generally go from 8:30 AM to 3:30 or 4:30 PM, and the kids have supervised study halls after dinner, they arent supposed to be using their computers for anything other than study at these times, but this is when they email and chat on messenger with friends in China and overseas. (when no one is watching them). They are just human beings after all .........

I apologize for all the typos, its been a very long day - sorry for that garbled aspect at times in my post.

I thought this thread was about education, funny how the mention of China drives the majority of the posters here into a rabid frenzy ... The title of this forum is "THE REST OF THE WORLD" it doesnt say in the title of this forum, "BASH THE REST OF THE WORLD" I would assume that would mean "Discussing the gaining knowledge of other countries"........ in the world today, 2006 - Shady why dont you publish pamphlets in Toronto or where ever you choose saying you are going to over throw the Canadian Government, execute the PM and members of Parliament and see how far you get? Be sure the murder all the members of your family before you set out to do this because they wont join you in your attempt to overthrow the Government and become the Supreme Ruler of the world -- do you think Canada is going to say "oh well she does have freedom of expression to do these things." Or set up a website - oh wait, thats been done and everyone connected with it was arrested werent they? China does allow freedom to practise religion, any religion with the exception of violent cults, but then Charles Manson wasnt welcomed with open arms in the US was he? And it seems to me its hard times being Muslim in Canada, US or any "western country" these days so all this talk about freedom of religion really isnt legitimate is it? Not to mention the complaints I have read on this forum about the Sikhs and their religious symbols and rights to practise their beliefs in Canada - All you know about Falun Gong is what they want you to know, and think they are. Their presence in China is NOT what it is in Canada - have you read the material they have published underground in China? People in China are terrified of Falun Gong, afraid to even talk about it because they could be killed too, by the Falun Gong followers. I dont know how I can word it more plainly for the posters here the the Chinese people do NOT pay $700 or $800 CANADIAN DOLLARS for an apartment, they do NOT pay $600 to $700 CANADIAN DOLLARS to feed their familes, they work for CHINESE WAGES AND PAY CHINESE PRICES for the good they consumer. Speaking in RELATIVE TERSM THEY ARE NO WORSE OFF THAN MOST CANADIANS ARE. The currency used in China is NOT Canadian dollars. Rent, food, clothing, cars, gas, taxi fares, train fare do NOT cost what they do in Canada. The fare to travel just over an hour by rapid transit in China from one burb to another is 4 RMB or 59 cents in Canadian money. Most people buy commuter passes that cost far less than that. A person earning minimum wage in Canada can earn between $6.35 and $9.00 an hour - even if they work 40 hours a week, they earn between $1016.00 and $1440.00 LESS TAXES, CPP, EI, ETC a month. Which is what? Approximately $150.00 to $200.00 a month? Which leaves them with what? $866.00 to $1240.00 a month for net income? Rent, say in a not so great neighbourhood in Canada, $700.00 a month, utilities around $200.00 a month and food around $350.00 a month for a single person, in Canada. Whats left? Nothing. They cant even afford THAT. The same person in China, earning what would be considered minimum wage, say working in a hotel, makes around 500 to 800 RMB a month. No deductions. Their apartment, a nice one, is about 250 RMB a month, food costs them about 150 to 300 RMB a month, and utilities about 110 RMB a month. I dont see a huge difference in wages between the two countries , if they want to rent in a not so great by western standards area, they pay about 150 a month for an apartment, that is between 600 to 700 sq feet and has all the amenities except it would have a shower and no bathtub. Gosh they have money left over at the end of the month ! Their Canadian counterparts DONT. Those just starting out, students training on the job in hotels, earning around 500 RMB a month have their board and room provided for them, for 200 RMB a month. The ONLY difference between an apartment in Canada and one in China is the one in China is WAY cheaper, and the kitchen is smaller. In fact for the same prices one pays in Canada, I can rent a VILLA in China. And btw you might be interested in knowing Canadian teachers are being paid Canadian wages by Canadian schools, certified by the provincial education departments of CANADA while working in China - Our schools head office is in Vancouver BC. They are cetified by the BC School District The initial post here plainly stated that Live From China felt the education system was tough, or brutal and I plainly stated that I felt it was superior in that students behave themselves in the schools, want to learn, that their purpose in being in school is to learn .. that there isnt the behavior problems in school in China that you see in Canada, the US, England etc ... Ask ANY teacher if violence is a problem in Canadian schools, against teachers, against other students and they will say yes. How are any of those comments propaganda? because you perception of China is based on historical events that occurred decades ago, and the Falun Gong's statements? Most of your posts who no knowledge of China, they are based on events that happened decades ago, who is the Head of the Chinese Government today? What recent legislation has been passed in China, say within the last year or so? What kind of social services does China provide for its citizens? How many Canadian businesses have offices and production facilities in China? How many Canadians work in China? How many Canadian students are studying in China, and why would their parents approve if China is such a horrid, filthy, poor, oppressed, dangerous country for their chikldren to be attending school in? What kind of Government does China have? How involved is Government in business ventures? How much does China and the Chinese contribute in disaster relief to countries like Thailand and India? I am not "promoting" China, but neither am I so close minded that the mention of another country sends me into a rabid frenzy, or so uneducated and ignorant that I am not interested in or aware of the impact China has on the Canadian economy. There is no intellectual discussion on this forum, with a few exceptions, it is just a free for all of hurling insults at anyone who doesnt fit into the mold of "secular Canada". It remind me of Rome before its fall -- the same values, the same sense of superiority, the same complete lack of awareness or oher cultures and countries. My freedoms have never been compromsied or threatened in China, in fact I feel safer there then I do in Canada given the lower crime rates, people can have more than one child if they pay the medical costs associated with having their additional off spring, and education costs etc. And for the last time, internet, phone conversations, television whatever is not restricted by the Chinese Government except in very extreme cases, just as it is in Western countries given the security concerns they also have. How is it that people from China can post to these kind of forums? The educational system has its good points, and its drawbacks BUT VIOLENCE AND MISBEHAVIOR BY STUDENTS IS NOT A PROBLEM, THEY WANT TO LEARN AND WORK HARD. Most go on to university in Western Contries and a huge number win scholarships to those universities. Information, knowledge, its considered a valuable commodity in some countries

So true River, and I might add the curiousity, interest and eagerness of the average Chinese person one meets on the street, in coffee shops, in stores, on buses and trains to learn about other cultures. To welcome foreigners to their country and talk to them about their cultures, their experiences and to ask "is it true that all Canadians are rich and live in big houses?' " How does government work in your country?" etc. Canada doesnt reward scholarship, or hard work. I know so many incompetent uneducated, and ignorant people holding down management or supervisory postions because daddy owns the company. While an employee with an MBA and ten years of management experience is working in the mail room. I also believe Live From China said the education system in China is "tough, or brutal" and the average Canadian student couldnt hack it - he didnt say it was superior. I say its superior because you dont see Chinese students mouthing off or threatening teachers and other students, you dont see the violence, the behavior problems, the laziness you do in Canada. Chinese schools dont have the "touchy feely" fear of discipling students, or setting achievement expectations. As for what happens to them if they dont toe the line, they are expelled from the school and have to find another willing to take them ...... bet you thought they would be executed huh, Shady? Or thrown into prison or publicly beaten and forced to work on a farm for the rest of their lives ........ Canadian teachers wouldnt enforce such rules or teach in schools in China if that were the case. If a student acts up we get to take them outside and shoot them - makes discipline really easy. Maybe thats a system Canada could use

The "Chinese" are so poor? If you are speaking in terms of what Canadians earn in Canada and the cost of living in Canada, then the average wage in China wouldnt go far. But they dont live in Canada do they? All things are relative and the average Chinese worker is paid no less than the average Canadian worker here, in terms of buying power in their own country. Why are so many PhD degree holders driving cabs in Canada? Does a degree guarantee you a job or a good income in Canada? It does in China. Agricultural areas are poorer than urban, and could use more of an income. The Chinese students ask a lot of questions, they are interested in learning, unlike, I have to say this, the majority of their Canadian counterparts in Canadian High Schools. More time is given to controlling students behavior in Canadian High Schools than is given to teaching or learning.

GC 1795 Uh I think the big difference here is that I am not demanding Canada be handed over to me? Or did you kind of miss that point in this thread? As for smelting your own tools and building your own houses, you will have to start from scratch, no smelters, no mills, no nails, no saws ........ you complain about how non-natives have destroyed Canada and your way of life. I would be interested in learning how you are going to change the flow or rivers into the US. Do you also plan on taking over the US as well? Didnt say I did and I am not complaining these things have ruined my traditional way of life, you do read dont you? What have your contributions been to Canada? What big changes have you made? I would be interested in hearing about it, seeing as you dont know me and dont know what I have done in my life.

I guess you dont like your life with all its comforts ? Do you live in a cave and eat moose you have killed with a bow and arrow? At least be honest with yourself and others -- I am leaving in August again, Canada isnt the only civilized country in the world, I work overseas ...

It is so damn discouraging ! I have talked myself out of words on these issues, continuously for what seems forever. I joined this band wagon in 1990 and have been hammering my own head against the brick wall since then - researching, talking to people, lobbying for change, writing to Politicians, the media, and all for naught. Neither I nor other organizations and lobbyists, Royal Commission Inquiries, Unions, none of us have made a dent in the wall of shame and silence in Canada surrounding povery and disability issues. I have not received any response from any Politician, other than to say talk to someone else its not my area or my problem, or I appreciate what the situation is but there is nothing I can do about it. Form letters. Actually that isnt entirely correct, Moe Sahota DID respond and try to do something. But we all know what happened to him dont we? I know how discouraged you are, how discouraged I am. Have you tried working from home as Betsy suggested? You walk a hard road and that you have courage is shown by the fact that are still here ---

Oh yah we would take all our Armed Forced with us of course, which would mean you would either become part of the US or another country, perhaps from the Middle East would move in and claim Canada - a country without defenses, Parliament, infra structure or a recognized place in world affairs. The US border would be slammed shut so fast you wouldnt be able to fart across it. Do you think "Canadians" who have no rights or status in Canada are going to defend the land for you? LMAO - brilliant solution you came up with.

I think enough people have been burned on leasing land from natives that not a lot would be willing to walk down that road again. As for Canadians agreeing to give up their right to own their own home I think you can forget that one as well. That was the whole purpose in immigrating to Canada. If you total up all the land claims in Canada I believe they encompass more than 100% of Canada, more like 200% I for one have no intention of handing my house, which I paid for, and continue to pay for, over to you or anyone else. That of course would involve compensation for all the displaced white people - how much are YOU willing to pay for that? I think we know the answer to that. Maybe the non-native people should take everything that is theirs, made by them, constructed by them, developed by them, all schools, hospitals, medical services and technology, highways, bridges, airports, utilities, such as phone service, electricity, etc etc etc EVERYTHING including Social Services and tax dollars, grocery stores, malls, etc etc - and immigrate to a country where we would be welcome. There arent that many of us after all. Blow up the oil and gas wells, the dams, all the buildings and roads, and return Canada to a "natural" state and let the natives have it, leave it as was before Eurpopeans arrived here. Including of course the houses and schools and recreation centres and everything built for natives, and let them have at it seeing as our presence has so handicapped and harmed the way of life they had before our arrival. No pickup trucks, no ATVs, no ski dos or guns of any kind, no manufactured clothing, no manufactured food, just the natives and the water and the land .. works for me. Do you know how to make a bow and arrow? A flint arrow head? Have at it -- I am willing to pull out of Canada and take EVERYTHING with me --- The question is are you willing to go back to your "traditional" way of life? Traditional native life with ALL the land handed over to you and all the resources does not to me mean IMO that you get to live in your European style home, watch satelite TV, wear manufactured clothing, eat food bought at a grocery store and hold a hand out for "rent cheques" drive on highways paid for and built by non-natives --- Isnt that just a tad hypocritical? I hope you dont have dental work or glasses we would have to reclaim before we leave here. I think you have a great idea, return Canada to the natives, as the Europeans found it. Disclaimer: It is not my intent to infer ALL natives feel this way, nor that ALL natives chose to not contribute to the progress of this country. Those who do are more than welcome to come with us, I dont think they would like what would be left of Canada

Read the Immigration Act and the definition of refugee and how a person qualifies to be considerd a refugee. Do some research on how many people are being held in refugee camps around the world. Only certain countries are recognized countries of origin for refugess claimants. Because they are fleeing wars, torture and persecution they dont arrive with documents, and many travel under false documentation for their protection. For many refugees it is difficult, dangerous or impossible to acquire identity documents after their arrival in Canada. Governments in some countries cease to exist or will refuse to provide identity documents to certain nationals, including those fleeing as refugees. In countries at war, official records may be destroyed or there may be no bureaucracy available to answer requests for information. It can be dangerous for refugees or for their families in their homeland if identity documents are requested. Alerted to the refugee's situation, the persecutors may renew their attacks. Refugees should never be expected to approach the government of the country they have fled. Immigrants coming to Canada have to prove financial stability, required to show proof of having a certain amount of money available to them, approximately $250,000.00, and/or have family members who can support them and are prevented from accessing Social Programs for a certain number of years. The only exception is in cases of marital breakdown or family abuses. FYI China has an EXCELLENT medical system and resources, just recently a group of doctors from Canada visited the country to observe their system. Their medical technology is as advanced, if not more so than is Canadas. I can tell you they have a helluva lot more MRI machines than Canada has, and no waiting lists. The number of people from China claiming "refugee status" is quite low, for the last 5 years between 1.8% to 5.6% of the total number of people arriving from China, the majority come as "skilled workers" which means they are on a "skills shortage" list. Immigrants from China most often come here because they can have more than one child. Canadians are not producing enough children to ensure the continuation of our Social Programs, including Senior Pensions. If you want to stop immigration you better be prepared to father at least 16 children to pay for your pension benefits when you retire - of course you will personally have to feed those 16 children and put them through college so they can earn the money they need to support your pension. and what happens when an aging Canadian population retires?

DAWN Canada especially the Ontario group does a lot of work for the disabled across Canada. I think they might have an advocacy interest, but it deals with mostly Disabled Women. Its almost impossible to get the media to pay any attention to disabled issues. In fact I would go so far as to say its impossible. When I was told about the agency that provides service for the disabled that is located halfway up a very steep street with no parking for clients I couldnt believe it. HOW does a disabled person access this office? I have written articles myself but no one will publish them. Yet I have worked as a Free Lance Journalist and been published in newspapers in SK and BC, and the US. I have talked to so many disabled people and I am not able to get their stories published. Without fail my editors say "it doesnt meet our agenda or our needs at this time .." and hand it back, recently an article on poverty and young women sucked into prostitution with gifts and trips and nice things was rejected by about a dozen editors across Canada. IF I had substituted the word China for Canada, they would have been all over it .......... The BC Premier recently took part in a run to raise money for the poor children in China. Poor children in Canada? You got to be kidding .......... No one cares. Especially not the media. Not when its happening in Canada, no one wants to hear it. The real irony is that Canada won recognition for its work with and aid for, the disabled in Mexico . That was a real slap in the face to Canada's disabled in my opinion. The media SHOULD Have been willing to go with something when that happened, but they werent. How many articles or any media coverage have you seen about the 5 million Canadians living in extreme poverty? The ONLY story that made it into the media was the pregnant woman confined to her apartment because of Welfare fraud, who died of heat exhaustion and starvation and who's body wasnt discovered for days - Kimberly ? That was her name I think. $18 a week for food and most Canadians dont care, dont want to hear about it.

I am appalled at the ignorance being displayed here towards Canadians who are working overseas, just what is your problem with that? At least we are paying taxes and NOT using the medical system or any of the benefits our taxes are paying for - so get over it. We are still entitled to an opinion on how our Tax dollars are being spent. You better get used to it given the sheer numbers of Canadians employed outside this country for Canadian companies. Have you never heard of the Global Economy? I would wager the people you are bashing for calling themselves "Canadians" when they are working outside the country have lived in Canada longer than you have. Since when does leaving Canada cancel your citizenship? It obvious who the real trolls here are.

Betsy your comments are considerate, well thought out and show a compassion for both sides as well as your stand that violence and inconveniencing people who are not responsible and have no influence or responsibility for Government decision is not the way to go, and are all ignored. There is no exchange of thoughts, and ideas, or compromise only "my way is the right way" and mayhem will prevail and every white person will pay. You are dealing with a racist, dear, I do admire your restraint, though your consideration isnt being recognized.

None of us have addressed the other victims of this inequity - the children of disabled parents - if I get started on that I will be ranting day and night.

When a person has lost their dignity, their self respect and respect of their family, friends, and peers, their independence, the ability to provide for themselves and their families, and their future what else have they got lose? Or better phrased, what have they got to live for? They have also lost the activities they used to enjoy. They either cant afford them or they can no longer participate due to physcial limitations. Everyday is the same, many dread going to bed because they have to wake up and face it all again. They get out of bed, and sit by their windows - watching the rest of the world go past them -- watch people going off to work, interacting, planning vacations, buying homes, building for retirement, sending their children off to college, mowing the lawn - Friends dont call them because they have nothing to say of any interest, they have become boring and repititious. They dont go out when asked because they cant afford to. They become socially isolated. guy a "Hi George, hows it going? What'd you do today?Whats new"? guy b "I got up about 10 AM, had a hard time sleeping, brushed my teeth, had a coffee and watched TV all day - nothing new, nothing ever changes ----" guy a "Sounds good George, see ya around buddy ........." Thats how it plays out ........... BORING - you bet it is. The disabled are so marginalized from the rest of the world that they are living in glass cages, they can SEE and HEAR the rest of the world but they dont have access to it. So they sit and watch while everyday that ticks past makes them that much older, discouraged, depressed and unemployable - like prisoners in solitary confinement. They dont want to be funneled into "subsidized housing" where they live side by side with substance abusers and others who have chosen poverty as a way of life. There is no dignity in that. Its a killer for pride and their dignity. They dont want to and shouldnt have to grovel and beg and be humiliated by Social Workers and WCB. These agency people are not adverse to coming staight out and saying "In my opinion you are just lazy and you dont care what you are putting your family through, get off your lazy butt and find a job." People with disablities and injured/disabled workers are only asking for a minimum income that would enable them to hang onto some dignity and independence. They arent asking for a lot. Yes there are those who try to abuse the system, but because there are hypochondriacs and people who go to the ER just for attention, should we close out ERs to everyone? Deny services to people who legitimately need the services? Assume all people are flakes and have a universal policy of treating them like crap? I think not. It is IMO Canada's greatest shame. NDP, Liberal, Conservative, no one gives a sh*t and nothing ever changes, except the Liberals decided to make it even harder on disabled people and punish them more the "crime of being disabled". injusticebuster I wish I had some answers but I dont. A few jobs give you room to be "dishonest" about your disabilities and pretend you are out seeing clients when you are actually at home screaming ... advertising is one of them, other than that I have NO ideas. And sooner or later you would probably "get caught" "goofing off" (being facetious) instead of working ......... sorry

You're kidding right? How much actual research have you done and how many diabled people have you actually spoken to ? Do you think they would admit this to the FTA?If a person hasn't experience first hand the kind of treatment they receive from WCB, Social Services, and employers when they become disabled you really have no idea how obstructive these agencies and individuals can be. The statistics prove conclusively a correlation between unemployed workers, disabilities and suicide. Throw Domestic Abuse and Violence into the mix and you have a greatly increased potential for suicide. WCB will not provide statistics on the number of claimants who commit suicide but other sources suggest this number is significant. WCB is a force onto its itself which has no governing body or enforcement of its mandate other than by its own Board of Directors. It is accountable only to itself and chooses to ignore any recommendations which arise from inquiries into its practise and failure to deliver its mandate to the injured and disabled workers. There have been a number of Royal Commission Inquiries that have resulted in little to no change to the practises of WCB. Like Social Services, Canada Disability Pensions, WCB automatically rejects at least 50% of the claims filed. With some agencies who are "supposed to" help the disabled the rate of rejection is closer to 65%. The application and appeals process can be so arduous that it is in fact beyond the abilities of many disabled persons. Some offices of agencies that provide assistance to the disabled do no have handicapped access for their clients, so a disabled person cannot even access the office to begin the process. from The Disabled Worker Law Blog Turner, Redmond and Rosasco Attorneys at Law Denial By Design. The emtire report can be read here http://dawn.thot.net/denial_by_design.html#5a Clearly workers who have unions to support them fare much better then non-union employees. Cambridge Journals on Line Psychological MedicineI rest my case, suicide among unemployed and/or disabled workers who are unable to return to work or to the same work, or same rate of pay is significant and cannot be ignored.

Now that is unbiased reporting, a perfect example qll right, psychological trauman, gee you had to know that would once more rear its ugly head didnt you?

aw yes the terror stories about China and people being monitored on forums, etc, as I said before how many people would be required to monitor all the internet traffic in a country who's population is over 1 billion. Live From China is posting here, and I have posted to political forums my entire time in China, There are a lot of untruths and exagerations about China. I spent most of my time in Northern China, in the Beijing area the country capital. China is well aware of its pollution problems they have dammed the Yangtze now, just completed and are looking into other areas for hydro power sources. On a bad day you can actually taste the pollution, your eyes burn and your throat hurts - you cant open your windows - and its best not to go out unless you have to. Winters in the north are very cold and that compounds the problem. Pollution cloaks the Forbidden City From China Daily Its off topic but here is a site for Chinese Womans Workers demanding improvements and higher wages - these are all accessible to and by the Chinese http://www.solidarity-us.org/atc/113Luce.html

Your content shows a woeful lack of knowledge, too many irrelevant and ridiculous comments to even respond to. No one said you didnt work, you were the one who suggested I didnt. This is becoming infantile and childish with the amount of irrelevant insults and comments being posted against people who dont agree with you. I did not say natives were lazy, I said there are too many with an over inflated sense of entitlement. You are the one hurling race insults. Just you. If you want to gain support for your "cause" you sure are going about it the wrong way. In more ways than one. But thats good, because your attitude and comments ultimately support my side , Lying, making up crap and insulting people has this strange way of getting people pissed off so they say "yah right, over my dead body". YOU are the kind of person who is doing more harm than good to your cause. Thank you for adding fuel to "my" side. I feel from reading the posts that you have been responded to with respect and courteously from all the posters who disagree with the violence and hostage taking tactics of any Land Claim Actvists. Pity that doesnt work both ways. I have had to use a great deal of restraint myself when you are start with the insults and racial slurs, and your lack of knowledge becomes to apparent in your posts. Yes I had my mind made up when I joined this thread and now, thanks to you it is set in stone. No way in hell if I have anything to say about it, and I do have a vote if it goes to referendum. I also have family members and friends who vote . 1st Session, 36th Parliament,Volume 137, Issue 47 Thursday, March 19, 1998 The first native MP in Canada and you dont know who he is, you really know your stuff dont you? You are dreaming if you think Ontario is carrying the rest of Canada. Alberta pays the most in Equilization payments, not Ontario.