Kindred

Are you saying the Conservatives are better? For whom? Certainly not for the women in Canada. Are they going to reinstate funding for Womens programs? For the Womens Secretariat? For Womens Shelters? Give women without criminal records access to Legal Aid for Family Law cases? Subsidize Day Care for parents? Create a Medical System that specializes in Women's health care and problems? Stop sending our sons and daughters to fight and be killed in a war that is about oil and revenge for an insult to George's daddy? I believe the Conservative Mandate is a soldier on every doorstep, Bush is King --- and women should be kept at home, barefoot and pregnant ...

Better? 5 million people living in extreme poverty in Canada probably wouldnt agree that the system is working well for them.

OMG almost $13,000.00 a year for a family of five ! Where do they spend all that money? Do you live at home with your parents that you dont seem to know what the cost of supporting a family is? WOW Alberta has a surgery procedure that fixes all the disabled people - have you shared this news with Rick Hansen? The Nobel Prize people should hear about this. Cutting people off the system doesnt mean they went to work, maybe they moved, or commited suicide ? Lets see if I understand this, the Govt kicks a whole bunch of people off welfare and then says the number of disabled persons collecting disability welfare benefits has gone down ... yup that makes sense all right. Its all so clear now, able bodied working people who have a good lifestyle and a good income just decide one day to give it all up and pretend to be disabled and force their children into poverty, lose their homes, their savings, their self respect and dignity and live like kings on approx $13,000.00 a year - You're 12 years old right? If there is a God someday you will find yourself disabled and then you will be able to understand the ignorance of your comments

FYI I am a Canadian who is fed up with the corrupt Government in Canada, the lack of Social Services for the poor and the disabled. The class system and the high price of living here. I am fed up with inadequate medical services and coverage - I am tired of the hypocrisy of Canadians, the willful ignorance and the smug attitude that Canada is perfect - its isnt. I am tired of the ignorance in Canada.

Who gets to decide whats the best way? Oh yes of course those people living in a country that has the system they think is the best ........... Tianamen was in 1989 get over it already! I cant believe how narrow minded and STUPID people are - that is NOT the same Government - cant you understand that? Honestly this is a waste of my time and energy - you dont even want to know what is happening in the world today -you prefer to be ignorant and uneducated. Are you still going to discos too? I dont care what you say, whether you like China or hate it, but educate yourselves, your smug ignorance is frustrating to me and should be an embarassment to you . I give up, you cant have an intelligent discussion with such willfully ignorant people - you are so unaware of what is happening in the rest of the world - Homosexuals were charged, arrested and jailed in Canada in the 1980's for being sexual deviants - I think things have changed since then .......... and not just in Canada, the rest of the world has changed too.

I am a smoker and I am filled with self disgust - the cost alone --- the smell ----- yuk

I could never figure that out, alcohol causes more deaths and violence - domestic, workplace, vehicular, bar fights, street fighting, stupid street racing, you name it and medical costs for people suffering from alcohol related illness and malfunctions - and yet its ok to be a drunken violent jerk but not ok to smoke a joint and enjoy the sunset .......... Where is the logic????????????

Interesting that no one responded to this post - the plight of the disabled in Canada is horrendous and should not be ignored. I challenge all of you to do the following quiz. a. Disability pensions in Canada are in the amount of : 500.00 - 700.00 per month 800.00 - 10000.00 per month 1000.00 - 1500.00 per month based on a persons income before becoming disabled provide additional financial benefit for dependents Pick the answers that are correct b. True or false? The Government pays for disabled peoples medical costs. The Government pays for therapy for disabled persons. The Government pays for prescriptions and other expenses for disabled persons. The Government provides housing supplements for disabled persons. The Government provides home care for disabled persons. Disabled people are forced to live in extreme povery in Canada. People are disabled because they are bad people and did something stupid. The Government provides education and job training for disabled workers in Canada. I cant believe this post was ignored by everyone here.

If the stop smoking campaign was dropped there would be a whole lot of people out of a job - there is a very strong financial interest in keeping it going - There appears to be no conclusive research or evidence to link any illness with second hand smoke, I would beg to differ on the issue of asthma - however this is why WCB is able to deny benefits to workers who claim to have developed illnesses due to working in environments that allow or allowed smoking ......... As someone posted less than 25% of the population smoke and asthma is on the rise and so is cancer ... That said I dont think we should subject others, especially our children to smoking - I am surprised animal activists havent gotten on board this issue demanding that smoking not be allowed in homes containing pets, or on farms, or anywhere there are animals ........ smoking isnt pretty, it smells, you smell, it costs a ton of money in Canada, and its really stupid, you cough and hack and go to great lengths to have a smoke, stand outside freezing your ass off in -50C just to fill your lungs with smoke - but to pass legislation restricting freedom of choice and to suggest the Govt should legislate what we do in our own homes is a bit over the top ......

If poverty is considered terrorism than I vote for terrorism, the biggest issue in Canada, the US and most of the world IMO is the millions and millions of children living in poverty. 1.5 million in Canada alone who dont have adequate housing, clothing or food. Over 5 million men, women and children in Canada living in extreme poverty. Poverty is the issue, poverty breeds hate and breeds wars - poverty and greed are the biggest threat to the world. IMO

Okay here is a good example for you - if you ask an American what Canada is really like, what kind of answers do you think you are going to get? A lot of the people will say we live in log cabins and igloos and have no television, and no electricity - A lot will say its freezing cold all year in Canada, if you go to Canada in July be sure and take winter clothing with you. And of course a lot of Americans would say we are cowards, and free loaders ......and willfully habouring terrorists, a lot still believe the 9/11 terrorists were trained in and came from Canada ....... Others say Canada is a communist country because of our socialized Government and programs. This is very common in the US. I have heard it numerous times ...... If you ask people from England a large number will say "arent they still one of the colonies and rather uncivilized? and primitive?" A friend of mine married a lady from England and this is what her family and friends asked her .......... If you ask people in China the majority will say "Canadians are all wonderful kind people and they are all really really rich and live in mansions .." Most of the world will say Canada has no pollution, just pristine lakes, rivers and oceans. And no crime. The point being you cannot know what a country is like until you visit it, spend time there, talk to the people, experience the life for yourself .........

Is there criteria for which country is better than another? Is it dependent on happy the citizens are? The standard of living? Are only democratic countries good? Does that mean Monarchies are also bad? Does Canada and the US have the only "good" countries in the world? Are they the model of the perfect countries? No one has said Canada has a worse record than China, I am saying Canada is not without its own sins. Nor is China without its violations -- no one has a perfect record. THATS the point I am trying to make, that and most people formed their opinion of China during the Mao years and have never changed it, and DONT KNOW what is going on in China today.

uh here's a thought, most refugees dont have "papers" or any kind of "record" - they are by definition "refugees" - people fleeing a dangerous situation in their homeland - escaping an unstable political situation that has resulted in such things as genocide, ethnic cleansing etc. So why dont we send them all back to get their "papers" from the government they are fleeing from in the first place ? Does anyone on this forum actually read anything other than the headlines in their newspaper? Or ever think gee I dont know why thats like that -- maybe I should do some research on it, talk to informed people, look into that act ......and then form an educated opinion .......? And btw imo the Liberals ARE stupid and so are the Conservatives and more than a few of the NDP - and probably 98% of Politicians, did you ever ask yourself WHY they become Politicians in the first place? Maybe 2% want to do something good for Canada, the rest of them want the limelight and the power .... I suspect that Harper like Bush thinks he is speaking for God and is going to whip all those sinners into shape - the Christian Right will kill every sonofabitch in this world who isnt kowtowing to their God and their white right to rule ... and women may be white but they aint got the right ........ White Christian Males will rule the world - Blair and Harper will have to fight for the right to be Crown Prince in Bush's Kingdom -- And no one will have to worry about black immigrants, or muslims or whatever - because there aint gonna be any -- so sit back, let Bush and Harper and Blair keep on killing and the problem will be solved -- no worries .......

In terms of moral responsibility on partners entering into a contract, and yes more most business contracts do contain a moral clause, perhaps it is time marriage contracts also contain a moral clause. I find that an interesting concept. Speaking from a moral point of view, if a partner enters into a contact with another person based on the assumption the contact will be honoured, and then discovers information presented by their partner was erroneous and full disclosure was not given at the time of the contract, do you not have legal avenues you can pursue? If a person presents themselves as fully qualified for a position and then you find out they have no qualifications pertaining to that position do you have legal claim against that partner? Case in point if a woman marries a man who claims to be hetrosexual and to be employed and financially stable, then discovers he has lied about sexual orientation and his financial situation, and is a substance abuser and has a huge amount of debt, should she not have legal recourse? Especially if she has contrbuted financally to the partnership and he has not? The emotional distress and traumatic repurcussions of a cheating spouse cannot be discounted either. As with most traumatic events, the death of the family member, a loss by natural disaster, or what have you, the emotional impact and subsequent Post Traumatic Stress can be and is a disabling trauma. Thats my "legal argument" ....... setting aside the specifics of this case and looking at the situation in general for women over 50 I would have to say it is something that should be considered and has been a too long time coming. Employment for people over the age of 50 is very hard to come by. The reality is that most managers and personel people these days are in their 20's, and people over the age of 50 look ancient to them. And they dont want their "mothers" working with them and ruining their fun ........ and they think people over the age of 50 just cant hack it in a technological world. They wont fit in with "the team". For a lot of people over 50 there is, unfortunately, a technology gap between the generations. I am not saying this is the case for the majority of people over 50, but it is a stereotype that haunts people over 50 when they are searching for jobs. Their degrees, obtained 30 years ago are now said to be "redundant". If they try to transfer credits to complete a degree they are told they cant because the credits "are too old". Generally speaking when talking to a woman filing for divorce I advise them to ask for spousal support until they can complete the necessary education to enter the workforce and be viably employed - HOWEVER our society tends to overlook and discard people over 50 and many companies have an unwritten policy of NOT hiring anyone over the age of 30 something ........ All the Financial Commercials are pushing the concept of retiring at age 55 these days. Think of the reality of starting over at square one at that age instead ..... You are seeing far far too many outsourced and redundant over 50 person employed in Call Centres making minimum wages these days. People who have been pushed out from Management positions with other businesses. This is a reality that may not affect many of you, yet. The decision made today will come around to haunt everyone when they hit that magic redundant age of 50something. If you research your stats you will see that most women end up living in poverty after a divorce. For women over 50 the numbers increase dramtically. If there isnt an equal distributuon of wealth in our society should there not be, at least, in marriage? Sadly women's earning power in Canada is still behind a man's earning power, women are still being funneled into pink collar occupations and paid less. The salary for clerical positions has been steadily decreasing in the Canadian Job Market. These are the positions most women over 50 were trained in. At the time that most of these women entered the work force, if they did and didnt stay home to maintain a family and household, there were still classified ads that read "women wanted" and "men wanted". These are the women who fought for equality and yet few of them have reaped the benefits ....... and now they are being told they are redundant and unemployable ....

Riverwind there are at least six deaths that I know of that are listed with Amnesty International, related to the police in Canada - what about the natives who froze to death outside Saskatoon after being driven into the countryside, having their jackets and boots removed and then thrown on the side of the road by the police? The post I made was in no way representative of Canada's record with AI. Canada's nomination to the AI Board is being reviewed based on Human Rights Violations. I am not saying there havent been Human Rights Violations in China and they probably continue, just as they have been and continue to be in Canada. I am saying the things you and other believe and say about China arent based on personal experience of knowledge, its heresay, its opinions formed during the Mao Regime - I am saying people should look a their own countries record before they start bashing other countries.

Have you checked Canada's record with AI? Canada: Police killing of Dudley George - questions still unanswered after eight years In a new report released today, Canada: Why there must be a public inquiry into the police killing of Dudley George, Amnesty International renewed its call for a full public inquiry into the 1995 police killing of Canadian Indigenous protester Dudley George. Canada: The right to peaceful dissent must be respected at the G-20 meeting of finance ministers As finance ministers arrive in Ottawa for a weekend summit of G-20 nations plus meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, Amnesty International is calling on Canadian authorities to ensure that freedom of expression and the right to peaceful demonstration are guaranteed. Canada: Amnesty International calls for public enquiry into alleged police brutality In the aftermath of the Summit of the Americas in Québec City, Amnesty International is calling for a public enquiry to investigate police tactics and behaviour in handling the demonstrations which surrounded the meeting and conditions for people detained at Orsainville prison. CANADA: Americas Summit - right to peaceful demonstration must be respected In the run-up to the Americas Summit scheduled to take place in Québec City between 20 and 22 April Amnesty International is urging the Canadian authorities to ensure that freedom of expression and peaceful demonstration is guaranteed. AMERICAS SUMMIT: Time for concrete action on human rights As governments from across the American continent meet in Québec City from 20 to 22 April for their third regional Summit, Amnesty International is calling for human rights to be placed at the heart of the debate and at the forefront of their action. Indigenous women and girls continued to suffer a disproportionately high incidence of violence. There were continuing concerns about the use by police of Taser guns. Violence against Indigenous women Indigenous women and girls, who have long been socially and economically marginalized in Canada, continued to suffer a disproportionately high incidence of violence. The authorities failed to implement measures to reduce the marginalization of these women and ensure that police understand and are accountable to Indigenous peoples. AI urged the authorities to institute comprehensive plans of action to ensure that Indigenous women and girls receive the protection needed. Police abuses Six men died in separate incidents after they were subdued by police using a Taser gun. Autopsies were pending in some cases. The authorities announced reviews of the use of Taser guns, but failed to suspend their use until an independent study was carried out. In June in Ontario, the public inquiry opened into the 1995 killing of Dudley George, an unarmed Indigenous man shot by police during a land rights protest. In October the public inquiry into the 1990 freezing to death in Saskatchewan of Neil Stonechild, a 17-year-old Indigenous youth, concluded that there had been a police role in his death. The Saskatchewan provincial government subsequently announced that a new process for investigating complaints against the police would be established. There was no response to AI’s call for an inquiry into allegations of racially motivated violence against Albert Duterville, a prisoner at Port-Cartier penitentiary. Security and human rights A public inquiry opened in June into Canada’s role in the case of Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen of Syrian origin who was deported from the USA to Syria in 2002, where he was detained without charge or trial for a year and allegedly tortured. The role of Canadian authorities in the cases of at least three other Canadian citizens who alleged they were tortured while in detention abroad remained unclarified. Six men remained in detention pending deportation, pursuant to security certificates issued under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. In five of the cases the individuals faced a serious risk of torture if deported. Under security certificate proceedings, detainees only have access to summaries of the evidence against them and have no opportunity to challenge key witnesses. Refugee protection The Canada/USA “safe-third country” deal was implemented in December. Under the deal, most refugee claimants passing through the USA on their way to Canada will be required to make refugee claims in the USA. AI was concerned that asylum-seekers turned away from Canada will face arbitrary and harsh detention in the USA in contravention of international standards, and that many women fearing gender-specific forms of persecution will face refoulement. The government continued to fail to enact the provisions under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act that would provide asylum-seekers with a full appeal against a decision denying them refugee status. Impunity and justice In June the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled, in the case of Bouzari v Iran, that Canada’s state immunity laws protect a foreign government from civil suits in Canadian courts for damages for torture suffered abroad. Other concerns There were no further negotiations regarding the long outstanding land claim of the Lubicon Cree in northern Alberta. The failure to reach a just resolution continued to contribute to violations of the rights of the Lubicon. etc etc

Not like Muslims are being discriminate against in Canada or being spied on by CSIS and the CIA and Homeland Security - if we dont like a Muslim leader we just have them arrested and held without due process - When it comes to discussing communism I dont feel you can do so logically or rationally unless you are able to understand and differentiate between true communism, marxism, maoism, lenonism etc - Riverwind I feel this is important because they arent all the same - and they arent communism -- (You are very vocal and I think interested in this discussion and not purely for the purpose of arguing, it would be great if you decided to go to China ! See for yourself - Mandarin is very easy to learn believe it or not ..... and you must learn Mandarin so you can talk directly to the people and not through an interpreter who is putting a spin on things .......) Without exception the Governments that most people point to as examples of Communism or Marxism arent. The leaders, most of them being Authoritarian Regimes, have borrowed a few self serving concepts from communism and then bastardized the philosophy behind communism and marxism to serve their own selfish greedy psychopathetic agendas. I dont know of any country that has had a government that could be accurately called communsim - do you? When class distinctions have disappeared, public power will lose its political character. This is because political power is nothing more than "the organized power of one class for oppressing another." When the proletariat eliminate the old conditions for production, they will render class antagonism impossible, and thereby eliminate their own class supremacy. Bourgeois society will be replaced by an "association" in which "the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." We havent see any examples of this in history, all the so-called "communist countries" have oppressed their people and formed an Authoritarian regime. The Catholic church is famous, or should I say infamous for interfering in politics - it is also a religion that teaches practioners that their first loyalty is to the Pope. There has been discussion in Canada about MPs voting the way their constituents wish them to vote or voting the way the Catholic church wants them to, in such issues as Womens' Rights, etc. The conflict between religion and politics is not a new one. Church and State should be separate but the Catholic Church has a history of interfering ... I am not saying they are "bad" only that they like to meddle in politics and they do have a lot of power ........ I find reservations expressed by the Chinese understandable, and whats wrong with having a Chinese Bishop anyhow? Charles Anthony I havent addressed your comments because I find them very amusing - I admire, in an odd way, people who have the courage to go with their paranoid fantasies and insanity. I takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there -- let others hear and see you ...... good for you ! You are a brave man. Live From China- ta zhen congming, tong yi? (Charles Anthony) wa xi huan ta

You have to understand that China has had years of hardship, read "Wild Swans" - they have been invaded or occupied by the Japanese, the Mongols, Russians, Americans ....... and this cult Fulan Dong has stated its purpose is to challenge and take over the present Government of China .. Anyone with the same purpose would be arrested in Canada or the US. Anyone who openly challenges a Government of any country can expect to be arrested ............. I would hazard a guess that this is the group behind the killing of students in foreign schools and a teacher, and blowing up MacDonalds. They have killed thousands of people who oppose them, including their own family members, with the idea that their leader is a Supreme Being, a God who should rule China. They suck people into their cult by appearing to be benign and no more dangerous than Tai Chi - yah right. I have spoken to people in China who are too afraid to say the name of the cult, not because of the police but because they are terrified of the cult members. That aside, this is an exciting and interesting time to be in China and everyone is watching China - the whole world. (Informed people are is how I should put it) There has never been a Marxist/Communist state before, Mao borrowed a few ideas from Marx such as workers should work for the state and not for profit and then completely terrorized, exploited and abused the people. His was an Authoritarian Government - it wasnt Communism or Marxism - Russia is Lenonist Mao pretended to embrace Marx and Communism but was in fact an Autoritarian Dictator and a lunatic. He wrote his own "Littel Red Book"( Xiăo Hóngshū) that contained such ideas as "A good housewife can cook a meal for her family without any food". People could be killed if they didnt carry it with them at all times - the Chinese people were forced to memorize it - During the Cultural Revolution, studying the book was not only required in schools but was also a standard practice in the workplace as well. All units, in the industrial, commercial, agricultural, civil service, and military sectors, organized group sessions for the entire workforce to study the book during working hours. Quotes from Mao were either bold-faced or highlighted in red, and almost all writing, including scientific essays, had to quote Mao. To defend against the theory that it would be counter-productive, it was argued that understanding Mao's quotes could definitely bring about enlightenment to the work unit, resulting in production improvement to offset the time lost. China has had to rebuild schools, hospitals, roads, and a whole society. Conservative estimated are that 14 to 20 million people starved to death under Mao, some ate their own children. Women gave birth while marching in the Red Army and then left the babies and marched on ..... And Mao got fatter and richer - while he was destoying schools in China he sent his own sons to Moscow to be educated. A Chinese authot asked in an interview "who was the real Mao Tse-Tung", Chang replies, "The real Mao was completely amoral. He rejected morality as an adult decision when he was 24-years-old and he said the world exists only for me. And from then on he pursued what he wanted with basically increasing power, first to become supreme party leader and then the supreme leader of China, and then to dominate the world. He single-mindedly pursued these goals throughout his life. "After he took power he said many times things like, 'we must conquer the Earth', 'we must set up an Earth control committee and make a uniform plan for the Earth', or , 'the Pacific Ocean isn't going to be peaceful unless we take it over'. So he was pursuing his own power until he died. ... "He didn't achieve his superpower dream, because Mao basically was economically hopeless, and he actually left China in a shambles. ... Today in Highschools there are students who are in their 20's because education was interrupted. Children were taken out of schools to rip up "Imperial grass" and "kill Imperial sparrows". The Chinese experience seems to be unique. Rather than falling under a single family's self-serving and dynastic interpretation of Marxism as happened in North Korea and before 1989 in Eastern Europe, the Chinese government - after the end of the struggles over the Mao legacy in 1980 and the ascent of Deng Xiaoping - seems to have solved the succession crises that have plagued self-proclaimed Leninist governments since the death of Lenin himself. Key to this success is another Leninism which is a NEP (New Economic Policy) writ very large; Lenin's own NEP of the 1920s was the "permission" given to markets including speculation to operate by the Party which retained final control. The Russian experience in Perestroika was that markets under socialism were so opaque as to be both inefficient and corrupt but especially after China's application to join the WTO this does not seem to apply universally. Wikepedia As I said its an exciting time to be in China and witness history in the making, and the evolution of the New Communist Goverment as it struggles to serve the people ........... anyone who has a closed mind and is willfullly ignorant and uninformed is missing out on the oppoortunity to see a country emerging from years of oppression and occupationg and find its own atonomy and acceptance in the world. From out of nothing China has progressed at rebuilding their country at an amazing rate and is changing constantly - as I said its an exciting time to be in China and to watch it rising from the ashes left behind by Mao. Come to China and experience it for yourself ....... you will never regret it .......

Uh lived there for a year, going back again in August, rented an apartment there. Not living in a hotel and as I said before didnt just travel to tourist destinations or just talk to front people. I learned enough Mandarin to talk to the people about things like Government, Police, Religion, Social Policies and Services, etc I was there when the Govt announced freedom of religion, talked to monks from Tibet who were so pleased with the move ... talked to students at Tianamen Square ....... etc Saw a lot, met and talked to a lot of people, made some good friends and cant wait to go back ........

Can you give me an explaination for the porn side bar? Do we assume there is an explaination for the things big companies like Google do?

The only problem I had with google in China was all the porn sidebars it dumped on my computer that were impossible to get rid of - they denied that of course, which IMO means google cant be believed no matter what they say - everyone who used google in China had problems with porn sidebars. Now why would the Chinese Govt want to dump porn on peoples computers? As Andrew Brown recently reported on openDemocracy, Google collects mountains of IP-address-linked data about the search behaviour of all its customers. The more services you sign up for with Google (Gmail, Desktop, Homepage) the more Google knows about you, knowledge that it shares with third parties, for example, to make better-targeted ads. This is its core business model, and the reason why small ads are so successful. To keep our information flowing into the Googleplex, Google relies on a high level of either ignorance or (one hopes, more likely) trust from its users.................So our next question should be, how much data are you logging about your new Chinese customers, Google? And what will you do when the Chinese authorities ask you to hand it over? In fact, this question has already been put privately to a senior contact at Google by British web commentator Bill Thompson, who is awaiting a response. The questions don't end there. Google has obviously been taking a lot of time and care with its launch in China. In June 2004 it bought a 2.4% stake in China's biggest search engine, Baidu, to get a feel for the place. Then, in April 2005, it paid a rather large sum of money (in Chinese terms) to wrest control of the google.cn domain name from an enterprising cyber-squatter. And in September last year Google saw off a lawsuit from Microsoft to secure the services of the latter's Vice President, Lee Kai-Fu, as Google's man in China. Kai Fu was joined by Johnny Chou, with the aim of building a fifty-strong research and development team inside PRC. One clue might lie in the feature of google.cn that sets it apart from the other global search providers, like MSN and Yahoo!, operating inside China. This feature – much lauded in the official statements given by Google on the day of the launch – is that google.cn tells its customers when their search results have been "filtered". How Google got that concession from the Chinese authorities might go some way to explaining why it took so long to release google.cn. But the question then has to be, what did Google offer in return? Sorry there is no such message popping up when you "google" in China, google lies - its all about them collecting huge amounts of data on their users that they can sell to the highest bidder - Google is a public company and like all big companies profit is the bottom line ........ Seems to be that all of China is on ADSL China telecom , and it can be totally swamped at times ....... imagine if most of us had one server and one time zone. But then of course I am probably just lying about the problems often experienced in getting onto the internet in China ... being a Chinese Govt Official and all that --

Ok I am going to say this again, they dont block internet sites, because of the HUGE volume of internet traffic in Asia at certain times of the day its hard to get onto many sites, even hotmail at times. The Chinese Government does want internet servers and sites to register with them - they have a real thing for organization in China. And I mean a REAL THING for organization. If people are getting together for a picnic or cherry picking they want to assign everyone a number and have you travel in numeric order - and this is just the average Chinese citizen. Too bad they dont do the same when it comes to queuing - And once again in China I can access cbcnews.ca and ctvnews.ca and the BBC, and the cnn and msn and canoe, and Al Jazerra and whatever news site I want to - including Rabble and my local news site - any newspapers I want to access. A lot of people have satelite dishes - and our cable had CNN news and BBC news, and a movie channel - hollywood movies. You can listen to internet radio - I found a reggae station to listen to -- and you can access all kinds of forums from China, access to information is NOT restricted in China, in any way. The last Empress Dowager sent hundreds of people to school in England, Canada and the US, Mao closed down the country to any outsiders, closed schools and punished scholars and educated people, since his death and the fall of Maoism thousands of students are attending university in the West. Hundreds of students from the West are attending schools in China. And as I said before there are a lot of Canadian, American, and English highschools and colleges in China with teachers from those countries and Europe and Australia and from all over the world -- So for the last time, China does not restrict access to information. china is really heavily into electronics and believe me the information highway is wide open and accessible to anyone ............[/b As for monitoring internet use have you checked to see what spyware you installed on your computer if you ihave nstalled printer software? Its everywhere these days - you think Canada and the US arent monitoring your internet ? the program, found on the Lexmark X5250 installation software, embeds itself in the registry and monitors the use of the printer through DLL files in the c:\program_files\lexmark500 folder. The program sends the information, which includes print and scanning data, and sends it a datebase owned by Lexmark look for a nasty little file called lx_CATS.ini The US government has succeeded in persuading some color laser printer manufacturers to encode each page with identifying information. That means that without your knowledge or consent, an act you assume is private could become public. A communication tool you're using in everyday life could become a tool for government surveillance. And what's worse, there are no laws to prevent abuse. It all sounds very sensationalist, doesn't it? What has set alarm bells off is the news that the FBI has been collecting documents on non-violent groups such as the ALCU, Greenpeace and United for Peace and Justice. The concern here being that the FBI will be able to find out who has been printing what.

My point in posting is that ignorance breeds hate and fear and war and if you prefer to hang onto your ignorance and hate then go for it - people like you are dangerous, you embrace your ignorance as if it were the Holy Grail. Lets fight the whole world, dominate everyone who isnt just like us, who dont think like us, believe in our hypocritical preaching about how perfect the West is ......and ignore our own Human Rights Violations ......... I have lived in China, I know what its like for the people, and I know how much lies and propoganda there is about China ... You're like a puppet on the end of a string - mindless blind acceptance -- never questioning, never leaving the comfort of your own narrow little space, never finding out the truth for yourself -- Any country, any culture, any race that isnt a cookie cutter shape of yours is wrong. And yours is perfect of course --- Its this blind, ignorant, oblivious narrow minded secular society in the West that is so damn dangerous in its lack of knowledge, curiousity and awareness of other cultures, other people. Hell even its OWN Human Rights Violations etc. I would dare to guess you may have run into Falun Gong people. A cult that is engaged in criminal activity, brain washing, extortion and who's purpose is to elimnate all gays, homeless people, the poor, the disabled and anyone who opposes them and their agenda. Many of the followers have killed their families, homeless people, gays etc in fact more than 1600 people have already been killed in China by Falun Gong. And yes, they are in Canada and the US and very vocal and running into trouble here already - they have damaged media outlets in China, hampered the SARS efforts, because Hongzhi told them it was punishment from heaven for evil people, plotted against the Government, Master Li Hongzhi is the supreme being, the Creator and his purpose is to rule the world, guess he and Bush will have to fight for that right ......... So yah they are being arrested for their activities and then crying foul all around the world ...

So much better to sit on your butt and take someone else's word for what something is like. You should be able to research, find out things for yourself, investigate, ask questions, talk to people, and formulate your own answers based on research, not just parrot things you have heard or read through very selective reading, and only one point of view ........ There are Americans coming to Canada trying to claim refugee status and claiming they are being persecuted and their lives are in danger in the US. There will always be dissidents from whatever country of origin. That doesnt mean we accept their stories at face value - think of the millions of refugees we would be allowing into the country if we just accepted what people say - and didnt make an effort to learn the truth behind the stories. Of course it benefits these "refugees" to tell tales of horror, they want to live in Canada. There are thousands of legitimate refugees applying to canada, but most people want to come here for economic reasons. There are people in prisons in China who are wrongly or unjustly accused, there are people in Canadian prisons who have been wrongly commited by corrupt officials, and in American prisons as well. David Milgard, (sp?) Stephen Trucott ..... Its almost laughable to hear someone talking about Human Rights Violations in any country and then presenting the US or Canada as an example of "democracy and respect for human rights". Those Chinese people who have come to tell their stories were imprisoned and persecuted following Tianimen Square, before the new Government came into power. Yes they were treated badly, horribly, but that is now history. China isnt the same China it was back then, thats what you dont seem to get ---- What was happening in Canada in the 1980's ? Canada News Archives Clip A Supreme Court ruling comes down, and a Northwest Territories mechanic named George Klippert is on his way to jail. His crime is that he is a homosexual. In this CBC Radio clip, Bud Orange, Klippert's MP, says he hopes the government is forced to make a move as a result of the ruling. Justice Minister Pierre Trudeau responds that proposed changes to the criminal code will prevent more cases like Klippert's. Wow should we believe this is still the case in Canada today? Of course not, no more than China is still the China of the 1980's and Mao years. BUT what about Human Rights in Canada today? TORONTO, FEBRUARY, 2006 -- It seems that Black History Month is an appropriate time to reflect on the case of one Douglas Gary Freeman (the former Joseph Coleman Pannell, Jr.), a 56-year-old African American man sitting in a Canadian jail almost two years as he fights extradition to the United States. Supporters of five Muslim men being held without charge by Ottawa protested and presented petitions to the Prime Minister's office yesterday. The detention of the men seems to be shrouded in mystery. They were held on the basis of 'security certificates' by the Canadian Security Intelligence Sevice (CSIS). Somehow, this story has been percolating for at least two years and it's only starting to get some attention now. Perhaps, that's due to fear on the part of family members and friends of the detainees. After all, if these guys can be held without charges or trial, what's to stop CSIS from arresting anyone who speaks out against the arrests. And another case......... The four men at the Kingston holding centre, as well as Montrealer Adil Charkaoui (who was released on bail in 2005), are known as Canada's Secret Trial Five. They have been imprisoned without charges for up to five years and face possible deportation and torture. One of the organizers of the weekend event, Tatiana Gomez, explained the shortcomings of public inquiries, which are usually arranged by the state. "Who gets to speak is very selective," she argues. Omar Khadr Detained in July 2002 near Khost, Afghanistan at age 15 accused of killing a U.S. serviceman Being held in Guantanamo Bay. I meet Hassan here in Canada, at the Toronto West Detenton Centre near Pearson International Airport. In these first encounters, in the spring of 2005, he tells me his story. Since October 2001, his home has been a nine-by-12-foot concrete cell. A small window well above his head lets in a little natural light. A fluorescent tube otherwise lights his cell, dimming slightly at night. His bed is a concrete slab with a thin mattress. A metal table is affixed to the wall. He has no chair. The door to his cell is steel; his meals are passed through a slot. Every day, he is allowed to leave his cell for a shower, always under supervision. A few times a week, he is permitted to stroll for a few minutes in an outside enclosure -- concrete walls on all sides, but with an open sky above..................... Why indeed is Hassan in solitary confinement in a Canadian prison? He laughs again: "The government thinks I am a terrorist, that I am a threat to national security!" Hassan has not been charged, has not even been able to learn the reasons for his detention, only the damning allegation that he is a danger to the Canadian public. Any national security evidence that the government holds against him is kept secret and neither he nor his lawyers nor the Canadian public can challenge that. The government has successfully convinced a federal judge that Hassan is a security threat, that he should be deported and, until that time, held in custody........ Hassan is a Muslim, as are all the detainees. His security certificate was issued in October 2001, only weeks after Sept. 11. Those were panicked times, amid accusations the hijackers had entered the United States from Canada. George W. Bush was aggressively telling the world that countries were either with the U.S. in its war on terror or against it. Canada, meanwhile, was scrambling to put together a coherent anti-terror policy. . Not in Canada 'eh? As for Taiwan, I have noticed how Canada has so happily embraced the idea of Quebec separating from Canada over the years - and BC and Alberta joining the US --- of course any country other than China would welcome and assist those provinces and territories that want to separate. No one would ever oppose it - not us, not the "good guys" ........ nothing like that could or would ever happen here ......... 1969 July: Increasing number of riots and bombs as politicians adopt an increasing number of anti- democratic measures vis-à-vis francophones; Oct. - Dec.: James Cross, head of the British Trade Commission in Montréal, and subsequently Pierre Laporte, Québec Minister of Labour and Manpower, kidnapped by the FLQ; Oct. 17. Trudeau invokes War Measures Act, imprisoning all those opposing federalist ideas. Pierre Laporte is found, assassinated. Cross is freed Dec. 3. As I said before "not in Canada 'eh?" People in glass houses...... I have posted to this topic on the internet with no problem, perhaps it was the moderator of the group who didnt care for what you had to say .... if my posts were deleted from here I wouldnt blame the Canadian Government How many people would China have to employ to monitor EVERY forum, EVERY internet site, EVERY post, EVERY single thing said on the internet? Anyone want to figure that one out?

So how many people have been interrogated and arrested in the US for speaking out against the Government and been put on a hit list of "suspected terrorists"? Seems to me I saw a doc about that just a few days ago ...........