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Ok so I will tell you bluntly, it gives you the right to complain we aint carrying our part of NATO or North American sea defense as we should with NATO allies or the US. Agreed. Inexcusable. However Trump is still a rude idiot Russian blackmailed pasty. His wife is clearly from Putin's fleet of escorts. I met her once in Moscow. She went by the name of Nastasha in those days, She had a thing for squirrels. She reminds me of Kaitlyn Jenner.

Thanks now I got yah. That I get.

Agreed if you are now talking military court martial procedures and laws. Thought you were referring to the criminal charges the current government laid. Dougie what ever happened to you I defer to you. I can see in several posts you had a number done on you. Respect.

Yes timing and yes Brison ran. In regards to reopening the trial....yes in theory they can Betsy but in practicality they can not. If they decided a year later to re-open that would cause a Charter challenge for unnecessary delay and most probably get thrown out.

How is he a mutineer? What law did he betray or break? Even if he communicated with a company that thought it had a shipbuilding contact, that was not illegal. In Canadian law for a breach of trust to be proven, the Crown would have to have proven beyond reasonable doubt Norman intended to derive a personal benefit for himself from his disclosure. The Crown had no evidence of that. The government's decision to commence a case was based on anger not law. Hey I respect the fact you served so your perspective is important D93....but let's be clear as to what the law says. Let's also be crystal clear this government direcly interfered in this case by refusing to disclose evidence it had and was required to disclose. This coming from a government that awarded Kadr 10 million because they said the proceedings at Guantanamo Bay did not properly disclose evidence against Kadr to Kadr's defence lawyers. Whether its Hua Weo and Lavalin or this case, this government never fails to contradict itself.

Fist off I don't believe anyone is morally superior to anyone or any country is morally superior to another. I find such assumptions illogical. Homo sapiens by inherent nature is a mix of immoral and moral traits, constantly struggling to balance its inherent good and evil. Your question selects out the US, why? Do you really want to suggest there is evil only in the US? As for me as an individual I have what is called the gift of free choice and I use it as much as I possibly can to try do good and avoid evil and I am inperfect and phack up a lot. Sorry. May I also suggest you ask yourself the question you ask others and tell me what you intend to do about China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and Kanye West.

Trump's sucking up to Putin and Kim is disgusting. So was what Obama did with Turkey, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Iran. Doesn't say much for either. Trying to suggest what Obama did makes what Trump has done better or no worse is illogical. They both for different reasons have compromised the US's standing on world stage. They are both stooges to external forces compromising the security of the US and world. I will concede this. As much as Trump has sold the US out to Putin while masking it with this phony America first script, he has increased US presence in the hot zones with China a very crucial move that sends a very strong message to North Korea and China as well as his allies in the Pacific unlike Obama. He appears so far right on his Syria withdrawal move. I concede a lot of USA Defence policy is not Trump's making and he is not ignoring his military like Obama did. I also concede that US foreign and defence policy is complex and none of us know its real agenda and we guess. I personally believe he is used by te US military-industrial complex network as a puppet to dettract from their real agenda and he has clearly broken away from the FBI and CIA who appear to have been in cahoots with Obama whereas Trump seems to be relying on US military intelligence not civilian intelligence to make his decisions. That is siezeable difference. The US military intelligence network is far differen than the US civilian intelligence network. Clinton, Bush, and Obama were in bed with their civilian intelligence network and held military intelligence subordinate. Trump has rejected his civilian intelligence network and relies on his military one. This he sucks up to Kim and Putin but is military tougher right now on China that any US goverenment since WW2 if we are to be fair. I hate Putin but its conceivable he is not the power people think he is-then again maybe he is and uses Trump as a puppet. Certainly there is chaos between the US and NATO and his European and traditional allies with the exception of Australia which strongly supports his actions in the Pacific.

Well we know why the Liberals bailed. A trial would have shown the Liberal government has hidden documents from Norman and the courts-to be specific , suppressed and continue to suppress evidence that would have been used to exonerate the admiral and show the move to Irving shipyards was purely political in motivation and lacked merit.

I agree strongly with your two first sentences. On the third myself, I don't "blame them" but I do want them exposed and held accountable. Also if there were to tar sands oil extraction which I think is a horrible disaster for the environment it would create a very real negative impact on al Canadians which I am not sure anyone has the political will to want to deal with. For starters you would severely gut Alberta's economy and our gdp and export revenue would drastically decrease. From a purely economic perspective, it would have serious negative impact that scares politicians. The major negative impact of the tar sands extraction to the environnment are source: :https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Environmental_impacts_of_oil_sands Tailings Ponds Impacts: Tailings ponds are settling ponds that contain the waste byproduct of oil sands extraction and upgrading. They are a mix of water, sand, silt, clay, unrecovered hydrocarbons, and other contaminants. Climate Impacts: The greenhouse gas emissions for oil sand extraction and processing are significantly larger than for conventional crude oil. These emissions contribute to global warming and the enhanced greenhouse effect. Water Impacts: The extraction of bitumen from oil sands requires a large amount of water, and thus water use is a concern when looking at oil sands extraction. Water used in the oil sands can be recycled, but only small amounts of this water are returned to the natural cycle. Air Quality Impacts: Along with greenhouse gases, other pollutants are released into the air during oil sands operations. These pollutants are harmful to the environment and human health, and include gases such as NOx and SOx. Reclamation: Reclamation is the attempt to return previously used land - whether it was used for surface mining or as a tailings ponds - to their natural state. The chemicals in the tailings are factors that can make reclamation difficult. I wish there was a way to better get the chemicals out of the pools left behind. If those harmful chemicals could be extracted, then the pools left behind would not be problematic. I hear they are working on that but I am not sure how much progress is being made: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/oil-sands-companies-are-trying-to-reduce-environmental-impact.html

I found it also interesting their star military candidate who they never appointed Defence Minister of even Veteran Affairs Minister Andrew Leslie is not running again and was going to testify on behalf of the Vice Admiral. W

Sorry Hal I can't see the point you are making. Is that Moishe Dayan?

No to no.1 because it has not care to provide stats? In regards to no.2 unemployment rates do not and have never been accurate because as you know they do not account for permanently unemployed or any unemployed people who do not receive unemployment benefits. https://slate.com/business/2018/05/the-unemployment-rate-is-historically-low-and-meaningless.html https://www.valuewalk.com/2015/04/why-the-us-unemployment-rate-may-be-wrong/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/anaswanson/2015/03/31/what-if-americas-unemployment-rate-is-really-wrong/#1d42cb0d5e83 In regards to 3 I can concede some of what you say yes but here is why I do not think it is as significant as you seem to suggest: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/09/upshot/how-good-is-the-trump-economy-really.html Also I would argue some of the credit Trump is taking for himself is not as a result of his policies since he was elected: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/30/16945146/trump-economic-record https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/12/trump-miracle-economy-credit/548882/ Also I think the price or cost of what I s happening should also be considered not just the numbers: https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-untold-story-of-trumps-booming-economy/ That said Wes, I concede 71% of Americans feel Trump has made the economy better and will give him credit for it and so he will be re-elected. He has people convinced he changed the economy. The only way I can see an argument made as to anything he has done is to argue his tax cuts have had a positive impact on the economy but Wes GROWTH rates in the US economy have not really changed that much. Getting back to the thread I think both Trudeau and Trump for entirely different reasons have embarrassed their nations.

You giggle too much Eyeball. https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-russia-pose-grave-national-security-threats-to-canada_2875189.html

Canada's deficiencies are one issue, Trump's foreign policy another. You again engage in your one trick pony approach to all issues which is to point out Canada's military is broke. Yes it is. That does not change what Trump foreign policy is about.

With respect I disagree with the above comment. source:https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/404629-trump-is-failing-to-bring-back-american-jobs "Our study reveals that the Trump administration has awarded more than $50 billion in new federal contracts to companies that continue to shutter U.S. factories as they seek cheaper labor abroad. As a result, top federal contractors - Carrier’s parent company United Technologies, General Motors, Honeywell and Siemens - are now offshoring jobs at the fastest rate since the Great Recession. In fact, annual offshoring by taxpayer-funded corporations under Trump is on track to be three times greater than under the Obama and Bush administrations. Overall, more than 133,000 Americans have received pink slips since Trump took office. President Trump has the power to stop giving taxpayer dollars to companies that outsource jobs. However, even though he’s signed more than 100 executive orders and memoranda, he has yet to sign a single one that delivers on his promise to “create more jobs” by stopping offshoring. For working-class voters who supported Trump, his inaction is political hypocrisy." Also just for fun: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/general/news/2017/04/26/431299/100-ways-100-days-trump-hurt-americans/ The only thing Trump is pro is his ego.

Obama towed nothing. Please don't pose Obama now as a champion of US foreign policy either. Give it a rest with the American jingoism. The fact that Canada has very real military shortcomings does not make either Obama or Trump pro Western. Don't be absurd. Obama was a Muslim Brotherhood stooge and Trump is a Putin stooge, Bush Jr. was a Haliburton stooge, Clinton a China stooge, Bush Sr. and Reagan, Saudi stooges. Your last genuine world leader was JFK Jr. Please do not pose Trump or Obama in the same breath as JFK Jr., Eisenhower, Truman, FDR.

I HAVE put aside your worship of Trudeau. All I can say about that is you may have malaria. In regards to your hyperbole about Trudeau managing to finesse a Pacific free trade partnership with a key player in world trade please explain that. Our entering into an agreement with the Trans Pacific has nothing to do with finessing Japan. It has to do with taking advantage of the fact the US did not. Yes there will be increased trade with Japan but it works both ways, there will be increased trade from Japan to Canada. No ne finessed anyone and this has nothing to do with Trudeau and everything to do with world market conditions. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cptpp-in-effect-sunday-1.4955582 https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/cptpp-free-trade-deal-takes-effect-what-it-means-for-canada-1.4235054 In regards to trade with Israel how about instead of you spelling Netanyahu's name wrong you find out about what is being traded before you refer to oranges. https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/TradeAndInvestment/201445E https://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ci-ci/assets/pdfs/fact_sheet-fiche_documentaire/Israel-FS-en.pdf https://tradingeconomics.com/israel/exports/canada https://www.tradecommissioner.gc.ca/israel/market-facts-faits-sur-le-marche/0002032.aspx?lang=eng https://ciirdf.ca/proposition-de-valeur/

I need no theory about Trump being compromised by and a step and fetch it for Putin. He performed oral sex on him in public at their last press conference. Canada has pulled its weight in Afghanistan, Iraq with the Kurds and in Ukraine. Canada's armed forces are underfunded yes. Harper did far more for the Western alliance then Obama did. Don't pose Trump as a supporter of the West or its network.-from the day he was elected he has been tearing it down. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/10/trump-europe-nato-britain-putin-706138 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/world/europe/trump-international-relations-munich.html https://thewalrus.ca/the-historical-roots-of-trumps-anger-with-canada/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/05/18/can-the-u-s-europe-alliance-survive-trump/

I can't stand Trudeau but I agree with you blaming him is pointless. My answer to you is let it play out. What do I mean? Our extradition process is slow but it will settle the issue. In our law, we can NOT extradite someone to the US if the law they are being requested extradition for does not exist in Canada. So it could be on that ground alone the extradition treaty might be thrown out because it could be argued there is no law in Canada prohibiting trade with Iran. Next Meng was questioned 3 hours prior to being charged and apparently she may not have been properly have advised of her legal rights to a lawyer and being charged properly before the questions were asked which may be a grounds to throw out the extradition for having violated her Charter Rights. Thirdly TRump has stated publically he would send Meng back to China if the US could get a good trade deal with China. He is on public record as having said that. When he did that he created a third legal ground in Canada to throw out the extradition request which is-if it can be argued the intent of the extradition process is political and not just legal, then it can be thrown out. So there are actually 3 possible grounds to throw out the extradition treaty that could play out. Let's see if they do. That would resolve it. If that doesn't the practical reality is that if Trudeau is not re-elected, and China can save face and not have to deal with Trudeau who they feel lied to them about not being able to do anything and involve himself in the criminal process when he was doing just that with Lavalin, if Trudeau is gone as a major irritant to China as they feel lied to by him and have lost face, with a new leader, that new leader can then go to Trump and say ok buddy in the best interests of everyone drop it-continue with us as you did Trudeau and we will deal with China off the record and make it clear to them you have us by the balls so the best thing both China and we can do is BOTH take trade away from you by working together and we will go to China and play that out. What you see happening now is Trump is using Hu Wei to punish Canada over not just taking trade away from the US with China to Canada, which I am sorry Trudeau started by stating publically he would right before the US engaged in trade talks with China but also over free trade period. Trump hates the new Nafta and wants it sabotaged. He also feels Canada's pulling out of the F35 deal because we are now saying there is no spin off economic effects beneficial to Canada is a reason to punish us as well. Some of this mess is directly because of Trudeau. Some if it would have gone down Trudeau or no Trudeau just because its Trump and Trump has turned on every one of h is allies nit just Canada. My theory is Trump is a Putin stooge manipulated by Putin to commit chaos in the Western alliance network.

The Roma and Sinti died in the holocaust for the same reason as Jews. Godess knows I know. She also would know that we Jews at necessarily now liked to them from ashes. You do not understand what you piss on and that is fine. Here's a hint Taxme, it only starts as a rash you scratch at. No amount of showers will erase it and its gonna burn.

Here I am. This person calls you at for trying to blame Zionist elitists for controlling Canada immigration policy as neo Nazi white supremacist drivel. I do not agree with your opinions because they are not based on logic, simply subjective hatred. Your exercise of negatively stereotyping Jews, Zionists, whoever is the target of your hatred is what makes your comments bigoted. Stop whining. Your words speak loudly. If you want to spew hatred coming on this board and whining like a victim because you are challenged on it is a joke. Got news for you I am no bunny rabbit and you know where to find me Elmer. What's up doc.

Unfortunately yes. It is naïve to ignore the prevalent criminal patterns of behaviour in the Roma communities in Europe and the US. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/sunday-review/are-the-roma-primitive-or-just-poor.html The above article seems to suggest a certain degree of assimilation to the cultural values of the host country are required to avoid conflict. These are complex issues but the repeating cycle of criminal behaviour in certain communities of course will require its people be willing to want to change and assimilate. .

I know you. Well said. See my last post. You have zero issues with me on this thread. I know better. I know what your concerns are and you have a right to raise them and I concede my biases on this issue that may distort my reasoning a bit. The loopholes are real. The damage they may cause are real. The negative impact on cities is a fact. We have to be candid when discussing these issues. I sure as hell know the difference between an Argus and a Taxme. Also please understand my bias towards Christians who have been strong supporters of refugees. Maybe sometimes they have been exploited but how can I not respect them? It is precisely their values that give me the privileges of life my ancestors never had.

I would agree with you that at the present time there is a large loophole enabling untrained individuals with no language skills to jump the line and get into Canada. Yes. I would say that hole has not been and needs to be plugged. That said you raise another excellent issue. and I prefer it the way you state because for me, this is not a matter of immigration per se, its a matter of WHO we take in as immigrants. I prefer it stated that way and as much as I challenge Argus on some issues he has acknowledged that point from me many times which is why I do not disagree with what he says if its not to reject immigration outright and I have to be upfront about my biases being a son of a refugee. I woudl argue all economic forecasts state Canada needs immigrats that but the issue of what skills nad what qualifications make for a compatible immigrant-that's the crux of the issue and you raise the most difficult issue of all we talk around all the time on this issue and that is what makes someone most likely to be successful and positively contribute in Canada? Political correctness at times, (some feel all the time) can interfere and prevent frank discussion on this issue. The fact is certain people are bringing social values incompatible with Canada to Canada and I think our current government and past governments felt or feel will be compatible with Canadian values and this could be creating a future generation of social conflicts similar to what we now see in Europe or in the US. On the other hand I also state Canada is a country of immigrants the majority of whom embrace and put Canada and Canadian identity first and have positively contributed to this country. I also argue the only non imigrants in Canada are aboriginal peoples so we need to get that straight and put all our identities in perspective. That said If someone comes to Canada and wants to bring anti democratic values, or religious values incompatible with our laws or prevailing moral standards what happens? Do we change to suit them because that is politically correct? Are we tolerating intolerance doing that? Do we want people bringing their values to Canada if they are hateful or discriminatory? So such questions and your concerns have to be discussed openly and frankly and I myself believe that we have to define a Canadian identity and not allow it to be mutated by anyone and everyone at any given time in the name of tolerance. I argue we have gone too far and may be tolerating intolerance in the name of political correctness. I would argue our legal and social systems were built on a hybrid of aboriginal, British and French legal traditions and a mix of aboriginal spiritual and Christian beliefs and I have no problem with that being our foundation and building blocks. I embrace them. As a Jew I welcome those origins and what they gave birth to. I am loyal to our laws and the cultural values we have evolved to but I am loath to put Canada as a hyphen after the name Jewish. I am Canadian. My being Jewish is a cultural collective identity subordinate to being Canadian. If I can not put Canadian values and Canadian identity first, then how could I be Canadian? So I directly answer you-if I can not embrace and assimilate to Canadian social values compatible with a democratic Canadian nation, no you should not "tolerate" me. The probem is we don't want to define what Canadian means. We are too busy defining what it is NOT. So to address your issue, being Canadian for me has always meant the rule of law-keeping religion separate from state, politics separate from the running of government or judiciary decision making, free speech, voting, balancing the needs of the collective state with individual needs, treating all people using the same objective criteria. For me this means being willing to assimilate and subordinate culture and other identity criteria as secondary to being Canadian. I have no problem with that. I also am tired of people denying the aboriginal and Christian spiritual basis to Canada. At times they were in conflict but both value systems have also helped build a positive vision. So I say to you that perspective as a born in Canada offspring of refugees and migrants and of a refugee who had skills Canada badly needed but tried to deport until a Senator and war vets and Protestant and Catholic Christian intervened on behalf of one of my parents. I am bias of course. I can not with that background be anti immigrant or refugee but it does not mean I can not agree and share your concerns about social compatibility. It does not make you anti immigrant or racist to raise such issues. People like me need to speak to people like you directly and candidly so you can decide, is this someone you could live next door to. However I would caution you on my true religion an homage to Les Glorieux. I will die red white and blue with the firm belief Maurice Richard was the Messiah and Doug Harvey, Jean Beliveau, Toe Blake, Howie Morenz, George Vezina, Gump Worsley, Boom Boom Gefferion were Archangels.