gerryhatrick

Conservative values at work.

According to the reports from the embassy in Lebanon, most of the people who were getting evacuated were tourists. Without a doubt, that would be true. The National Post article above gives the breakdown of the 40,000 estimated Canadians in Lebanon, and given that about 15,000 would be vacationers from Montreal alone and that we have a population residing in Canada of 250,000, it's not unreasonable to extrapolate 50% of the 40,000 are tourists. And they would be the ones most likely to be scrambling to get out of there. Some of the Lebanese-Canadians who reside in Lebanon will likely come back, but certainly not the remaining 20,000. It's a big step to decide to move to another continent so most will likely remain, in spite of the destruction.

Yes, you are. And it remains stupid. Hey, don't blame me if you can't read a newspaper. I can read the newspaper quite fine thankyou. I even provide newspaper links, as you can see in the thread about the cost of returning these Canadians. I explained to you previously in this thread that many of these folks are Canadian residents who were vacationing. The reason for the large number of vacationers is our immigration policy towards Lebanese over the previous decades (giving us a large population, as many as 250,000) and the recent return to stability of Lebanon (just last year, was it not? the "cedar revolution"?) making the time right for a visit to old friends and family.

Most of them are coming home. Given the fact that so many Canadians were vacationing in Lebanon at the moment, it's a safe be that most of them reside here at the moment. According to the media, 95% of the 50,000 "Canadians" in Lebanon are permanent residents there. Only about 5,000 are tourists. Really? I haven't seen that media report. Here's one from the National Post: It mentions how the 2002 Francophonie Summit put the number of Lebanese immigrants in Canada at 250,000 and how a Montreal travel agent estimates 15,000 Montrealers return to Lebanon on vacation each year. Many are likely coming back after having been in Canada for many years and then returning to Lebanon to reside, but so what? While they were here they paid taxes and contributed to the economy. If they're able to decide where they want to live then they're no doubt an economic benifit, not the burden you assume Lebanese people must be. I highly doubt it's 95% and would be very interested to see that media report. I provide one here that pegs it around 50%. And in all likelyhood the 50% of Canadians who are currently residing in Lebanon will not all come back.

Yes, you are. And it remains stupid.

Most of them are coming home. Given the fact that so many Canadians were vacationing in Lebanon at the moment, it's a safe be that most of them reside here at the moment. As the ones that are returning home after a residing over in Lebanon, I hope they move to your street!

Just like you. The stupid thing is you know nothing about them. Zero. There are more stories among them than there are brain cells in your head. And very few are likely to match your narrow generalization described above. You are aware of the history of Canadian immigration from Lebanon? Doesn't sound like it. You should be aware that Lebanon only recently became stable and attractive for return visits for families who long ago made homes elsewhere. Notice that word? HOMES. Like in Canada. Canadians, making homes, in Canada.

No the crazy thing is that Harper is micro-managing all things, including this. He needs to get away from that habit. Did you read the news about how the logistics and decision making on the weekend became problematic because everything had to pass through the PMO?

I would love to see them try. That would be the end of the CPC.

Those are both positive to Harper. The ridiculousness of your perceived bias is stunning. You're basically complaining because you're not seeing rightwing bias. I read the news and watch TV, and I've seen in both mediums that woman saying Hezbollah is a protector. It's not being missed. You complain that it's not the headline. Making the title about the woman blaming Harper is not negative to him, that's actually the most newsworthy piece of information. And what does the average Canadian think when they read that? Even those of us who think Harper had a big mouth last Friday and has the wrong attitude in general about the conflict recognize that such an accusation has no credibility and the woman loses credibility by making it. Crying about bias over that shows a lack of understanding of people and attitudes I've seen a lot in the last few days (including CBC, btw) about Harper flying people back from Cyprus and how it's being painted as a humanitarian gesture and how he's stayed on the tarmac to avoid any perceptions of a photo op. It never ceases to amaze how the rightwing complains about bias if they don't see enough bias to the right. Straight-up news makes them cry about bias! And what is the "big lib media" in Canada, btw? Would that be SunMedia? BellGlobe media? Winnipeg Free Press? National Post? Talk Radio? CTV? Stop me when I get to it...

Correction. Prime Minister Stephen Harper, two image handlers, and his personal photographer, will go to Cyprus..... Why not kick those guys out in Paris to free up even more seats??

Someone with a Canadian citizenship. Once someone has attained a Canadian citizenship they are Canadian. Perhaps it can be removed if they lied on their application for example, but otherwise they are our Canadian brothers and sisters. Lied on their application? And what does their application involve?Gerry, it's frightening to consider that for you, Canadian citizenship is merely a question of completing an application form, honestly. Well, you can ease your fears because that's not what I said. Let's put asside the melodramatic misrepresentations please. Good. And in spite of your refusal to see the definition of facism beyond your narrow "won't allow dissent", I'll address your accusation. You may dissent all you like. I do not seek to dissallow it. Stop pretending that I do. Talk about dual citizenship and how much you'd like to see it stripped from Lebanese-Canadians all you like. In response I will call it what it is. Don't be so fragile to think your freedom is being threatened.

I said you are not a Canadian. Your attitudes are not Canadian. A Canadian does not judge an entire population as you and others here have...judge them unworthy of citizenship. Ironically that makes you unworthy of Canadian citizenship.

They are Canadian citizens. What is so hard to understand about that? Regarding how many live in Canada, the four little children killed did, along with some of not all of the adults killed. I've brought up the issue of other nationalities like Italians, but nobody seems to have the balls to answer to it. Would these same sentiments be rearing their head if it was a European country? Don't think so. How many Italian-Canadians do you think are in Italy right now? Or Portugese? This is a bizarre singling out of an Arab country. Not pretty to watch.

Gerry, I frankly don't give a shit how wikipedia (of all sources) or an Internet webster's defines fascism. For me, fascism is the silencing of legitimate dissent. Well, I guess someone better submit that definition to the Wikipedia editors or Websters. I suspect if I wasn't so lazy and went to fetch my Oxfords dictionary (hard-bound, that get any cred from you?) it would have pretty much the same definitions that I just found. If you want the question answered in the context of the topic and the ridiculous complaints about dual citizenship then the answer is no, we do not refuse "membership in this club" if people have other citizenships or require them to give up other citizenships. It's a backwards idea. I don't know how I can be any clearer on that. Someone with a Canadian citizenship. Once someone has attained a Canadian citizenship they are Canadian. Perhaps it can be removed if they lied on their application for example, but otherwise they are our Canadian brothers and sisters.

Fascism? No Gerry, it's not fascism. Fascism is the silencing of ordinary people who ask legitimate questions. And in Canada today, asking "Who is a Canadian?" strikes me as a perfectly legitimate question. It certainly concerns the people who can be nothing else but Canadian. We are sharing our birthright with others.So, Gerry. What is a Canadian? Fascism: extreme nationalism? nation & race above the individual? No, I think I've got the right word. There are probably more but this one works. That's what it smells like to me. Do you have any idea how many dual citizen Italians there are, who love their country and visit all the time? Not to mention all the other nationalities. Lebanese are a worthy addition to the Country, regardless of how long they've been here or if they visit family back in Lebanon with their young Canadian-born children or not. What is all this anyway? Some Lebanese Canadians get killed and suddenly there's a crop of people trashing dual citizens? Does it smell to anybody else?

Where did you read 40,000 had "dual citizenship"? If people want to become citizens of the world we should let them. Your suggestion seems like a step backwards. I take offence to the attack on Canadian citizens in Lebanon at this time and the suggestion that they're not real Canadians. Where does the end of judging who is a "real Canadian" begin and where does it end? Who decides? It smacks of the worst kind of fascism.

I think they've already seen a drastic reduction in their infrastructure. The bombing needs to stop now, and the pre-requisite is no longer (thankfully, because it was an unreachable one) Lebanon dismantling Hezbullah. Now Israel just wanting the soldiers released and Hezbullah to stand down from the border. The point of my question is that people CAN'T leave Lebanon on their own. Due to the infrastructure descruction there's little means for leaving. That is why other nations are mobilizing to get their citizens out. And yes, I would tell my relatives to leave Israel. They would probably decline since the risk there is relatively low. Lower than Lebanon, if you compare the numbers.

You know, Gerry, I think that explains your opinion. You view the Israelis as big, powerful and dominant and you view the Arabs as weak and oppressed. Your instinct is to side with the weaker whom you call the victim. The Israelis are powerful and dominent over their enemy in this situation. Do you not it that way? I do not view "the Arabs" (um..do you equate all Arabs with Hezbollah?) as weak and oppressed. Hezbollah is lobbing rockets and they are killing people. Hezbollah did kidnap soldiers accross the border and they did ambush the rescue attempt and kill several soldiers. I am not siding with anyone, I am stating the facts. The fact is that Israel is kicking the crap out of Lebanon in a manner that is disproportionate to the damage being done to themselves. Ask yourself this: why are all nations scrambling to get their citizens out of Lebanon, but not Israel?

Four posts in a row. The hateful little racist is just itching for someone to play with. Lebanese Canadians = non-Canadians. Dead Canadians = too bad so sad. What else should we play racist boy?

Israel is blaming the civilians, saying they were warned to get out. A few hours is time to evacuate? Evacuate how? To where? The airport is closed, the highways are being bombed.

Who lobbed rockets? The Lebanese government? No. So why are Lebanese troops being targetted? Why is Lebanese infrastructure being targetted? And were rockets lobbed into Haifa before Israel began bombing? In either event, Israel is destroying a great deal of infrastructure in Lebanon...so yes, it is out of proportion. They are far more powerful and it is not a "defense" they are engaging in but rather a punitive move. Look at their new conditions before they will cease bombing Lebanon: soldiers returned unharmed, Hizbullah disarm, UN resolutions acted upon. Impossible conditions to meet in any reasonable length of time. Lebanon; most agree, cannot control Hisbullah anyway so they have no control over the first condition. In the meantime Israel reserves the right to bomb away. They bear as much responsibility for the escalation as anyone.

And you are a hateful little racist. I would give you advice, as you presume to give me, but I suspect you are hopeless.

A prime minister cannot abandon 20,000 Canadian citizens. If they start making exceptions for Lebanon, the precedent is set for elsewhere. Oh but they aren't Canadians, according to Argus. They're Lebanese. Lebanese are not like others. Argus can see into their heart and souls, and they're not Canadian. If Argus had his way all Lebanese would have their passports taken away.

So, it's not that they came from a foreign country and are visiting, it's that they're Lebanese. Why didn't you specify you were attacking only Lebanese in the first place? Who are you to talk about heart and soul? The dead included four children. You are the furthest thing from a Canadian that a human being can reach.