gerryhatrick

I agree.The absurdity here is that UNIFIL is supposed to be a peacekeeping force between Hizballah and Israel. Well, the two are at war. What the hell was UNIFIL doing there? They should have been pulled. One poster thinks they entered a "war zone". The reply is "what were they doing there?" This is like a punch and judy comedy. The UN members were there as observers. It was part of a UN cease fire thingy, ya know? The UN does a lot of that observer stuff, usually at great risk to themselves. Theyr'e F$%KING heros. Just because things start flying they're not going to cut and run, nor should they. Harper is an idiot for suggesting that, btw.

Mr Annan and Mme Arbour are pretty quick at the lip when it comes to making accusations against Israel. I would like to see some evidence. Oh come on. The evidence is in the story. They have been in constant contact with Israel about the UN posts, they were clearly marked and Israel knew exactly where they were. They've been there for years. It's hardly "quick at the lip" to call it "deliberate". It's the obvious fact of the matter.

The sheep don't pay attention to that. They expect the UN to be an extension of the Bush administration. Because it's not, it's worthless to them. Because the UN has been critical of Israel in the past it's anti-Israel. Sheep logic is not easily understood.

If you want to whine about the UN start another thread. It's irrelavent to this one. Try to focus your attention on a topic if you're going to participate.

You rightwingnuts cannot be pleased ever. You always need something to whine about. Harper did a bad job in reacting to this situation, and he's continuing to do a bad job. He should shut up if he can only comment about how it's "inevitable violence will escalate" and making excuses and apologies for an israeli response that's clearly not even close to measured. You can be a sheep and swallow everything you're told by your little cult master, but the rest of us will watch and read the news and form intelligent opinions. It's quite obvious that Israel is engaged in a punitive exercise against the economic and social infrastructure of Lebanon. All they have to do is simultaneously go after Hezbollah and the sheep ignore their ears and eyes and fall in line. Bah bah.

Lebanon has 4 million people. You can't even get that right. Of the 40,000 Canadians estimated to be in Lebanon, about 20,000 are residents of Canada on vacation. It is not unusual at all, given that we have approx. 200,000 Canadians of Lebanese origin (or born of Lebanese immigrants) in Canada and this summer is considered to be the first time Lebanon has been secure and stable, so many are returning for the first time in many years for a visit/vacation. Kindly stop assuming that these are not real Canadians or deserving Canadians or Canadian residents or otherwise. Thankyou.

Thus far the replies have been devoid of reason. Any other Israel apologists want to spew some nonsense about how evil the UN is?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/25/...main/index.html The details of this situation look bad for Israel. There's no excuse for this. It proves to me what I've feared: they're bombing indiscriminately within 30-odd km of the border. This was a precision guided bomb, but so what. Look at how they lob tank shells into Israel day and night. Who wants to tell me they're targetting?

Well come on, don't be shy. Explain it to the rest of us. What is your "electoral crisis"? You have a Mulsim representative, but only 20% Muslim population...and that's a crisis. How? Is it Sharia law that you're fear-mongering about here? Explain your "crisis". I have a Christian representative, and I'd say less than 20% of my riding is Christian. I work with two people who put themselves down as Catholic on the census, but they haven't been to church since they got married and they don't even pray. Should we be worried about an electoral crisis?

Riiiight. Moral compass. Like Bush, huh? I think I'll stick with the inexperience and ignorance thingy, it makes more sense. Stating that the violence will escalate is not a "moral compass", it's the ramblings of an imbecile.

I know it's hard to get used to, GH, but Harper is not basing all his decisions on polling data. I'm not suggesting that. Obviously his words were based on nothing more than inexperience and ignorance.

It's easily and logically quantifiable that approx. 20,000 of the estimated 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon are vacationing. I've posted the article demonstrating that twice already.

Your entire post was examining the census numbers. It matters little if it's 143,000, or 250,000 or 93,000. The point of my post, which you completely ignored, was that about half of the estimated 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon are likely Canadian residents, and logic dictates that the majority of the 7 or so thousand that have been evacuated are also. What do you see as an "Immigration SCANDAL"? What's scandelous? Allowing Lebanese to become Canadian citizens?

Then maybe Stephen Harper should keep his mouth shut. He is a world leader, and his indiscriminate acceptance of Israels actions - labeling it a "measured response" - will only embolden Israel to continue in their endevour. When he says "escalation is inevitable" it absolves Israel of all responsibility for escalation.

What is he doing that's the right thing, exactly? You mean by calling the wholesale demolition of Lebanon a "measured response"? Or by claiming that once violence starts "escallation is inevitable"? Which of these idiotic comments do you consider laudable? Or are you just characterizing support of Israel in general as "the right thing", all details asside?

Ok thanks. I'm getting the information from the Angus Reid website, so your point is moot. tip for U: when you quote you can delete some of the post your quoting. If the post you're quoting immedietaly preceeds your post then it's not necessary to repeat it all.

According to Angus Reid the people who say Harper made the wrong decision on Israel/Lebanon outnumber those who say he made the correct decision by a whopping 13%!! http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/12630 It's obvious that his "measured response" comment made on Friday the 13th was pre-mature. Shortly after we discovered that eight Canadians were killed in this "measured response". His comment also included the encouragement to Israel to defend itself, characterizing as all of it's actions as just that. Canadians are recognizing that this has gone a little beyond self-defense. One has to wonder if Israel could level Lebanon with nuclear weapons and have Harper call it self-defense. Harper must have realized he'd dug himself a hole, because he didn't comment again on the crisis until returning from the G8. Then he dug the hole a little deeper: "Obviously, there's been an ongoing escalation and, frankly, ongoing escalation is inevitable once conflict begins" Obviously, frankly, things will escalate. Certainly, while there are world leaders roaming around cheering it on so much you'd expect to see pom-poms in their hands. Harper has failed this test, and this poll is indicitive of that. And consider this poll was done last week, before the current scope of 500,000 displaced Lebanese came into focus.

Well, you must consider it ludicrous that out of the total population according to Stats.Can. that identified themselves (single response) as Lebanese which is 93,895 and 40,000 of them are on vacation in Lebanon. Who said 40,000 were on vacation? I've posted this elsewhere. From the National Post: Why 40,000 Canadians are in Lebanon http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/st...11986be&k=61499 Ok, looking at the facts of the situation: Lebanon just recently became peaceful and stable again. This summer has been described as one of return for Canadians who have not visited in a long time. Look at the family that was decimated: 4 children visiting for the first time. Although Montreal has the largest community of Lebanese origin, there are others. Considering that the estimate is 15,000 vacationing from Montreal alone this year, it's hardly a stretch to believe another 5000 from the rest of the country (given that estimates are between 150,000 and 250,000 Canadians of Lebanese origin in Canada). So that's 20,000 of the estimated 40,000 in Lebanon being on vacation, which is obviously 50% Consider as well that the people most likely to be calling the Canadian consolate and asking for help are these vacationers. With no other way out due to Israeli bombing, they needed their Countries help. I would suspect that a large majority of the 7000 who've come back so far are Canadian residents. Anyone suggesting otherwise is basing it on nothing solid from what I've seen. It comes accross more like fear and bigotry than rational consideration.

Running out of oil would be a blessing for the earth at this moment. Alas, there's probably lots left.

What is the point of your SINGLE anecdote? Let's here what you think of the generalization that these people are mostly "Canadians by convenience" and moslty Lebanon residents? One particularily ignorant poster elsewhere claimed that only 5% of the estimated 40,000 Canadians in Lebanon are on vacation. I provided media evidence that the number is more likely to be 50%. Of the remaining 50%, how many will evacuate? We don't know. It's safe to assume that the majority of those coming back are Canadian residents, since they would be the ones most likely to immediately need the assistance to get out (given that the airports are bombed)

Those are both positive to Harper. The ridiculousness of your perceived bias is stunning. You're basically complaining because you're not seeing rightwing bias. I read the news and watch TV, and I've seen in both mediums that woman saying Hezbollah is a protector. It's not being missed. You complain that it's not the headline. Making the title about the woman blaming Harper is not negative to him, that's actually the most newsworthy piece of information. And what does the average Canadian think when they read that? Even those of us who think Harper had a big mouth last Friday and has the wrong attitude in general about the conflict recognize that such an accusation has no credibility and the woman loses credibility by making it. Crying about bias over that shows a lack of understanding of people and attitudes I've seen a lot in the last few days (including CBC, btw) about Harper flying people back from Cyprus and how it's being painted as a humanitarian gesture and how he's stayed on the tarmac to avoid any perceptions of a photo op. It never ceases to amaze how the rightwing complains about bias if they don't see enough bias to the right. Straight-up news makes them cry about bias! And what is the "big lib media" in Canada, btw? Would that be SunMedia? BellGlobe media? Winnipeg Free Press? National Post? Talk Radio? CTV? Stop me when I get to it... Never did here anything back from you on this MikeDavid00. With this explanation can you recognize that what you're seeing as bias actually is not?

The CBC is more of a cerebral source of news and entertainment. Where do you get your information? Talk radio? The CBC will never "bite the dust". Such a move would be the death-knell for any political party who tried it, and the next government would be elected on a promise to restore it.

Nobody likes to be taken advantage of. These superficial Canadians who have not lived in Canada for decades really have no right to expect anything from the Canadian gov't. You're confused, this isn't another Canadian bashing thread. You (like other posters bashing these Canadians) have no idea what their story is. None. Do not assume the people coming back are all Lebanese residents who haven't lived in Canada for decades. That's ignorant and obviously incorrect anyway.

So the response was slow. so what? The embassy told Canadians to be at the dock early in the morning, and they waited there all day in the hot sun with no ship and no water. Then they get on a ship and the crossing takes three times as long and again water is a problem. OF COURSE some people are going to b1tch about that. SO WHAT? WHO CARES? Now Peter McKay is talking about it some more. Editorials, letters to the editor....and I expect next week it will continue. This is the biggest non-story of the 21st century. Let it go people.

Most of them are coming home. Given the fact that so many Canadians were vacationing in Lebanon at the moment, it's a safe be that most of them reside here at the moment. According to the media, 95% of the 50,000 "Canadians" in Lebanon are permanent residents there. Only about 5,000 are tourists. Really? I haven't seen that media report. Here's one from the National Post: It mentions how the 2002 Francophonie Summit put the number of Lebanese immigrants in Canada at 250,000 and how a Montreal travel agent estimates 15,000 Montrealers return to Lebanon on vacation each year. Many are likely coming back after having been in Canada for many years and then returning to Lebanon to reside, but so what? While they were here they paid taxes and contributed to the economy. If they're able to decide where they want to live then they're no doubt an economic benifit, not the burden you assume Lebanese people must be. I highly doubt it's 95% and would be very interested to see that media report. I provide one here that pegs it around 50%. And in all likelyhood the 50% of Canadians who are currently residing in Lebanon will not all come back. Argus, do you have a link for your claims?