betsy

Now, let's take a look at Mom's cosmetics and toiletries and other feely-goody items! A lot of possible asthma inducers in there! Aerosol hair spray (gee, have you smelled the stink in some of those?)...perfumes and colognes (again, where were they actually made?).... Anything that is touted to smell good...and making you inhale deeply to appreciate the scent.....are possible suspects! FEBREEZE! And other room fresheners! CANDLES! INCENSE! Aromatherapy items! The list goes on.... There was already a tv segment that talked of scent sprays for rooms to be causing some illneses. And a lot of moms usually use room fresheners in their childrens' room...where it need it the most! I guess they should be right there along with cigarettes to be banned from your homes! Cigarettes had been around for decades...but the alarming rise in asthma only happened what, 10 or 20 years ago? I'm willing to bet....the possible cause or triggering factor lies in the other items that we started using around that time. Air fresheners is high on my list!

Substance used in making hotdogs and sausages (is it sodium nitrate?) had always been said to be a cancer-causing agent since when I was a child...and yet it is still being used. And who eat hotdogs much more often than anyone else? If society will legislate and make it a criminal offense to smoke around children for the reason that they are harming their children indirectly .....then I guess feeding your child hotdogs, KNOWING it causes cancer, constitutes to a DELIBERATE criminal act: premeditated attempted murder (for those who have not died of cancer YET)....and murder in the first degree for those who had already croaked! Have there been any lawsuits against parents by children so far regarding this diet of hotdogs? Btw, I could swear some parents are deliberately trying to get rid of unwanted children when you see fat and obese children stuffing their faces with french fries and chix nuggets at fast food outlets...with the parents looking on so lovingly. There may be a future term for this: parenting "abortion." Maybe 10 to 20 years from now, we'll have lawsuits over those chips and cheetos parents stuffed down their childrens' throats....trans fat death traps!

I think some of the other people here who are against these suggestion for legislation and banning will agree with me that our main concern is the way SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS such as the anti-smoking busy bodies....are irresponsibly and casually playing around with our rights!

I am not saying smoking is harmless. I am not saying second-hand smoke is harmless. But I do not believe that second-hand smoke is the ONLY CAUSE...and the ONLY CONTRIBUTING FACTOR....in all these respiratory illnesses and cancers. Why is asthma not on every child who grew up in a smoking environment? I grew up...and had worked for a time serving in a bar, at a time when nobody had even thought of smoking as dangerous. The bar was so heavy in smoke it was "foggy." Who knows, maybe when someone was pregnant....yeah, they were smoking at home...BUT they were also spraying air freshener often, changing dusty kitty litter box, living stressful lives, eating unhealthy, staying in front of that glow from the tv...etc.., Who knows? Are we liable for poor genes? What the anti-smoking busy bodies are doing is targetting a segment and irresponsibly concluding using medical studies that are refuted by other medical studies. If there are other medical studies refuting the findings, it means NOTHING IS CONCLUSIVE! It needs further...and more extensive studies! The anti-smoking busy bodies do not want to accept any questions They are only focused on the accomplishment of their agenda....because it is only determined to do one thing...dictate! And legislate! IRRESPONSIBLY and CASUALLY TAMPERING WITH OUR RIGHTS!

Well that's one way to avoid a question... I guess you can't defend your contradiction. Oh well I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into another religion thread....besides, there is really nothing to debate about your perceived premise. SIMPLY because there is no contradiction. As far as I am concerned. You either have not read the exchanges...or you have read but did not understand the whole implication. I'll give you only one simple reason why your premise on this supposed "contradiction" is groundless. Read my lips: I do not buy into that second-hand smoke bull. I don’t believe it is the “terror” that you and the anti-smoking busy bodies say it is. Anymore than I believe in your other god, Kyoto. Your premise begs the question – PETITIO PRINCIPII . You base your conclusion on an unproven premise. In fact the evidence I posted clearly refutes your premise. Your anti-smoking doctrine, to me, is nothing more than one of the many doctrines that the anti-religion groups are desperately embracing…probably to fill the void in their lives…and make some meaning and purpose to an otherwise meaningless existence and stark realization that once they’re dead, they’re forever gone. Sorry, but I ain’t converting to your “religion,” brother. If you insist on pursuing your religion-route....kindly create another thread for it. But I’m warning you, I’m still in no mood to dance in any liberal merry-go-round polka!

Betsy, I must say I am a bit surprised by you. I thought you were a Christian who is pro-life (correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I read that in another thread, and my apologies if I'm being presumptuous)? Yet you go on and on about parents being free to choose whether to smoke or not in their homes. Why do parents have the right to choose whether or not they kill their kids through second hand smoke, but they shouldn't have the choice to decide if they want an abortion? Now, I really didn't want to bring up the abortion issue, but I just can't get my head around this contradiction. Sure, second hand smoke isn't guaranteed to kill someone they way abortion would, but it's certainly a huge step in the direction of death. You must be running out of gas...for you to dig up and bring out Christianity in this discussion. Gotta go. Ciao! I'll be laughing all the way to bed...

Hey guys, know what? Europeans and North Americans have been smoking heavily for over a hundred years. Over that same hundred years, our life spans, birth rates and quality of life have all improved dramatically. It's only in the last ten or fifteen years that smoking has decreased dramatically. In light of the fact that extensive studies involving thousands of subjects in England over 20 years showed no significant difference in life span or health problems of the spouses and children of smokers and non-smokers...AND recent studies have shown an alarming increase in lung cancer of non-smokers who have not been exposed to second hand smoke, better watch out! Perhaps we should brace ourselves for new evidence that will probably show that smoking has been a positive influence in the betterment of our health. Think RED WINE!

Toleration is one thing. Brooking another Holocaust is another. It would take me a great leap to advocate a mass slaughter of any people, though the Muslims are doing their level best to invite it. We're talking of enemies, many of whom are within our borders. What holocaust? Was it a holocaust when we defeated the Nazis? Admittedly this is a different kind of war, and nobody knows exactly how it's going to be resolved. But, it is going to be resolved. And the west is not going to fall.

Why is encouraging parents not to poison their kids Orwellian? Corrections. It's no longer called "encouraging" when they're talking of legislating. It means, "dictating." It's another way of saying, "by hook or by crook, you'll do as I say. Because I know it's good for you." I hope you don't feed your children hotdogs or any processed meats. That's poison too, you know! And do you know how much poison there is in Tim Horton's doughnuts?

I would disagree with you there, as would most doctors & scientists. But there is enough information out there already on the dangers of second hand smoke, so I won't bother debating it. Oh well, keep your home smoke-free then. Do what you think is best for YOUR OWN children. That's your choice...and your right... as their parent. Nothing's wrong with that, is there?

Let's not be simplistic. It's obvious the envy factor is prevalent in hate and prejudice. The English suffered hate and prejudice because of the fact that their subjects felt inferior to them. Canadians constantly belittle Americans mostly I think because they feel inferior to them. The question isn't what people feel about Jews or why. It's about a war against Islam. We don't want toleration for our enemy...whether they're on foreign shores or in our midst. I hope there won't be toleration of Islam in our society, if this is what Islam has to offer. I understand there are those in our society, liberals such as Jack Layton, that would imagine Islam can be appeased. But Islam does not imagine that. Islam's idea of appeasement is, become a Muslim or die. You seem confused. Why would you even think of our society tolerating somebody that's trying to change it. By force. To suit their own insane beliefs?

Have you ever associated with Moslems socially, worked with some of them, had an intelligent conversation with some of them them? In short Betsy, does your personal experience derive from anything other than CNN, Fox News, or the Jewish Post? Yes I've associated with some Muslims Higgly, socially and business-wise.

Oh if I want to smoke in my house....it will be for the parents to choose if they want their kids to be around me. I had chosen to quit...because I wanted to. It was for MY health. Of course if I remember correctly....you've always maintained that recreational drugs such as heroin and crack are not really that bad. You even dismissed the ads on tv as "not true." So you smoke only pot at home. I'm curious...do your kids get high with second-hand smoke? Hmmm...somehow, I get the feeling you're not just limited to pot....

You don't have an opinion on the subject? That's my opinion. I, myself, do not believe that second-hand smoke is that big a deal. And I do not support the idea of anyone telling me how I and my family should live our lives. But of course it might come to pass...knowing the clout of this powerful lobby groups! So just let them be the one to decide whatever charges they'd want to lay on "caught" parents. Oh, they'd just love that! They might even charge them with all three! It's ludicrous! Really.

How do you prove that everything is all due to second-hand smoke? That there are no other factors at play? Like poor genes? Immunity system problems? Other deficiencies that makes a child more susceptible? For all you know it could be just about who knows what that acts as a TRIGGER! Maybe we have weakened some children during and/or after our pregnancies by following fads and diets....overdosing on herbal stuffs, inhaling those aromatherapy candles, drinking filtered water, too much granola etc.., ADD! A lot of ADD are frauds! I've had several of them who were allegedly ADD....but do not behave any different than any normal active children! Sure they never listen....to anyone who don't know how to make them listen! Why do they listen to me? ADD my foot. A lot of these allegedly ADD just know how to tune you guys off and put you on "ignore." I've got a three year old right now! He's actually my model child in this batch so far...for good behaviour! His older siblings (8 and 10) are apparently diagnosed as ADD too. I've blasted those two for mis-behaving the first time they came to me. Never had any problems ever since!

And would the vigilantes burn down the puff-houses? I mean, they'd just be creating more of the 'environmental tobacco smoke' they're trying to fight in the first place.... Yes, it can happen! See what happens when they tamper with rights and casually accomodate special interest groups at the drop of the hat? Who knows where the ripple effects might lead.

Jbg, I am at a loss as to why there was...and there is, anti-semitism. I resent it. And now, there is even more anti-semitism, more so because of the Islamists. It is insidious. But it is not clear to me what you're saying in the sense of persecution. Are you suggesting that you're worried Muslims might become the equivalent of the Jews during the holocaust? Surely not. Islam represent the Nazis, the infidels are the new Jews. If England takes the lead in stomping out the Islamic threats, the rest of Europe might follow. There are hopeful signs in England and in Holland now. But it is the US - the leader of the Anglosphere - along with Australia and England, that will be the ultimate defender of our way of life.

Oh, they'll love the idea of puff-houses I'm sure...otherwise they're being unfair and inconsistent. And don't worry about blackmarket. They'll end up lobbying for the government to provide the cigarettes in these puff houses...to remedy the cigarette-related killings!

I say, do the same to those blasted parents who feed their kids nothing but Hot Dogs! Or Pizza! Or McDonald's! ESPECIALLY Kraft Dinner! They have no business clogging their kids' arteries! Actually, this is even worse! I say, flog them too! And close down all Tim Horton's! At least, until they agree to drop all the doughnuts! I swear I'm sick and tired of timbits coming into this house! Every parent seem to think a treat of doughnuts is necessary. So figure one parent bringing "treats" for everyone...a different parent each day...so what do we get? Doughnuts everyday! Of course they end up in the garbage. And do the same for couch potato parents. No parents should sit in front of the tv for more than 2 hours. I don't care if it's hockey season....you get your butts off that couch and start leading by example. Or we take away your kids! And the hogs? You don't need to spy on them. Just check out the grocery stores and usually you'll find two or three-generation family members waddling out of there, all the same tubs, I mean sizes....surprisingly, grandma usually come out slimmer than the two. They're definitely eating wrong! So whack them good. Start with grandma! And just to make sure...we should start monitoring what goes into everyone's grocery cart! Have we covered all the bases in the "eating dis-order" section so far?

"DID YOU KNOW?... - Enormous German study on passive smoke, cancer and cardiovascular disease says: >NO CONNECTION< - April, 2003 -- Dating back one year, this milestone study published by the American Journal of Epidemiology has been so thoroughly ignored by the public health gangs and its media servants - it has escaped even our attention! The enormous study covers 37 years, during which thousands of filght attendans have been followed and monitored for cancer. Furthermore, this is not a study based on questionnaires asking whether uncle Jack smoked more or less in 1956, as it's the case for most antismoking junk science -- nor it is something started and finished in a few months. Finally, it is neither financed by the tobacco industry, the pharmaceutical industry, nor is it supported by "public health" funds allocated to produce scientific frauds to support public health's frauds on smoking. All that explains the results. Here is an excerpt that says it all: "We found a rather remarkably low SMR [standardized incidence ratio] for lung cancer among female cabin attendants and no increase for male cabin attendants, indicating that smoking and exposure to passive smoking may not play an important role in mortality in this group. Smoking during airplane flights was permitted in Germany until the mid-1990s, and smoking is still not banned on all charter flights. The risk of cardiovascular disease mortality for male and female air crew was surprisingly low (reaching statistical significance among women)." The word "surprisingly" even betrays the expectation of the researchers that passive smoke hurts - quite indicative of today's superstitions induced by the antismoking frauds: but the results betray politics. In spite of all the USSR-like suppression of positive information by the "public health" gangsters, therefore, more evidence that the nearly universal smoking bans on passenger airlines is unjustified comes from researchers who examined the specific health risks associated with working in commercial aviation. Banning smoking on airlines makes no more sense than banning smoking in a restaurant or office building. None of the studies on secondhand smoke have ever demonstrated the epidemiological existence of a risk. CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD THE STUDY http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm

Anyway, there is a strong argument regarding the dangers of second-hand smoke. "NEW, ENORMOUS STUDY UNMASKS THE ANTISMOKING FRAUD: Environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality in a prospective study of Californians, 1960-98 - May 19th, 2003 - "The results do not support a casual relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed." http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm

If, Hypothetically, someone were caught smoking inside their home, should they be charged with child abuse/neglect/endangerment? Let's leave that decision to the Nicotine Nannies. They seem to have a lot of time on their hands, and I'm sure their overwhelming concern for everyone's health that fuels such creativity in finding ways to control, and impose, and dictate...will probably inspire them to come up with a new criminal offense. "Baby Tar-ring?"

I am glad that you have some rules regarding gaming times. When I was young, my parents bought the family 'Pong' (from Coleco, I believe) and it was neat. Then, when the Atari 2600 came out, (one of my friend's family paid $300 to have the first one on the block, I got one a year or two later for $199) the parents decided that us kids should only use it as a 'rainy day' type of activity, so we all still rode our bikes, played pick-up baseball, foootball or street hockey, even though we had this 'fabulous new device' at home. I'm really all for physical activity play. During the summer when I've got the older school-age siblings, we do "missions" in the backyard. I make up scenarios, of course ala-RPG that get them doing obstacle-course-type of activities and other fun games. It was a kid I babysat who introduced me to the original Zelda. Boy, I would call him in the middle of my game at night asking him for help!

Maybe this is not merely about banning burquas. Maybe it's a way of making a statement.

People I know smoke out of their houses. They go to their porches or garage. We don't need any legislations and more bannings. Most parents think of their children's health. Besides how do you enforce this? Get neighbors spying on each other? And how do you know the spy's report is accurate? Not trumped up charges just to cause mischief? There is already a law against child abuse or neglect or endangerment. That should be sufficient.