betsy

So to be above their level....we criticise and focus our vocal condemnation to every little "immoral mistake" that we think the good guys had done. The good guys who are there fighting and dying for us...and we thump on them. Publicly. In the papers. You could just see it now. A terrorist waving a tattered copy of a newspaper to civilians...showing a critical article of the good guys: "See? Even their own people are saying they are wrong! They are the bad guys!" In the meantime, the lefties and liberal thinkers are practically mum about vocally condemning the evil guys....showing almost like a silent acceptance of the fact, because anyway, the evil guys being the evil ones that they are, are just being evilly normal?

Did you read Army Guy's reply?

Same as how the governments of England and Canada had thought it improved theirs when they decided to intern Germans and Japanese. Repeating a mistake is not a very strong rationale. Ahh....but mistakes can be corrected. We learn through mistakes. That was more than 50 years ago. Sincere apologies had been made since then, after realization of the injustice done to the Japanese. And that was the mistake about the whole thing...the kind of treatment the Japanese got. My mother in-law and her family were interned in England. And they were never abused or treated unkindly. As far as I know...no mistake was done there. And of course, as I've said before, there will most probably be independent observers. I expect...and can definitely count on the liberal thinkers to be zealous in their monitoring of situations.

Same as how the governments of England and Canada had thought it improved theirs when they decided to intern Germans and Japanese.

That's logical? See, if people follow that advice....a lot of innocent Muslims will be begging the government to intern them. Why, they could easily be shot at if they carry any "suspicious" packages..... Darn, just what we need...trigger-happy sickos getting into the mix.

Of course we don't have a lawless free-for-all! Not now! My scenario is based if we are in a state of emergency! If you are going to make your argument....then please, take it to the scenario that is being assumed. Otherwise, we are not on the same page at all! So assuming the scenario given is already happening, that we are in a state of emergency....how can you be sure that some places or some incidents will not result in a lawless free-for-all? Anyway, weren't you one of those argueing on the Caledonia thread how it had seemed to have degenerated into a lawless land? Weren't you one of those asking...what are the cops doing? And that's just about a land dispute! So what more if it's a nationwide state of emergency....involving national secuirty?

So why do you think Germans, Italians, and Japanese were interned? Why did governments from England and Canada even considered such a thing? What was their reason?

Corrections. Even if Asians are taken out of the equation, it still wouldn't be an all-white society. We're a multi-race and a multi-cultural society.

Army Guy, thank you. To your comrades too. God bless you all.

Well that explained it! Germany! THAT period. Weren't they considered the terrorists of that time? If you want comparison from that time.....well, think something similar to the internments of Germans in England.

I just remebered the incident in Nepal. When terrorists kidnapped and killed Nepalese workers in Iraq...the Nepalese people reacted by going after the innocent Muslim civilians living in Nepal. Who knows how people would react?

I don't doubt that atrocities do happen. But there are various contributing factors why atrocities happen, although I don't condone them. Perhaps watching innocent civilians being humiliated and beheaded on video is enough to bring out the worse in some people. Remember the Nepalese hostages that were killed? How did the people of Nepal reacted to that one? By going after innocent Muslim civilians in Nepal. This by the way, is another example that I could cite supporting some of my points for that other thread in Federal Politics (Poll: Muslim Population in Canada) The psychological impact of actual combat....we'll never fully understand unless we are in the shoes of those who are there and fighting it. Nobody wants to be captured by an enemy. Period. Because you'll be at the mercy of the ones who hold power over your fate. And if your captors happens to be sick, then you can count yourself gone. Regardless of Geneva Conventions or not. What good are laws when you've been a captive taken in some isolated location...tortured and already dead? Then, there are those who are truly sick in the head....whom most probably joined the force just so to be able to do what they enjoy doing. Have you noticed though? Even when we dole out criticisms....the criticisms and condemnations are not evenly spread out across the board. The west is heavily taking the thumping! The evil guys suddenly look like the little angels.

When Dachau opened in 1933, internees and their relatives were told that they were there "for their own safety". They lied. Or things got out of hand. Or it was poorly planned. Etc.., That was then. We should've learned from those mistakes by now. In this day and age, when the world is really keeping tabs on abuses against humanity....and most civilized nations are trying to comply, chances are, internment wouldn't be like that from the past. Most likely, independent observers will be around to monitor the conditions of, and treatment given to interns. So what you're saying is that we have learned from the abuses of prisoners in Dachau that there are better ways, including the use of inndependent observers, to inter innocent victims. First of all, where is Dachau? I answered assuming it is in Canada...since we are talking of a scenario that happens in Canada. Is it in Canada?

No. It distinguishes from the great injustice and mistakes that had happened before. It distinguishes from the wrong way interned people were treated. Some would prefer internment like I do if faced with that kind of scenario...while others won't. So who prevails? Who's got more solid reasons? Do I say then, "oh they're more worried about the expenses of keeping me safe within walls than my actual safety." We still wouldn't really know until we actually are in that moment. And we will not know until we, personally, live that moment.

How does it feel I wonder when you had lived in this country for more than two decades, thinking and believing you are one of them....and suddenly you are accosted on the street and beaten to a pulp...because of anger towards the terrorist acts of some of your people? If one would survive that experience....it must change one's perception quite so...that feelings towards neighbors will never be the same again.

I know. Again, still putting myself in the shoes of Muslims, and assuming Asians are the ones involved... Practicalilty and drastic efforts to try to ensure my safety should also not be denied to me...at the whim of those who don't actually live the fear and insecurity I am living. Do I really enjoy freedom if I live in fear? Am I supposed to feel everything is just normal...knowing or suspecting what you must be thinking or suspecting about me? The choices are not palatable. But sometimes it has to come down to deciding what is and choosing the lesser evil.

Will you guarantee that everyone will still think that way? After numerous bombs and other terrorist acts are being done...and France-like intifada are being done more often in various cities and streets in our country? And our nation is declared under a state of emergency?

As I said, I had placed myself in the situation. Maybe it's just pure naivete on my part since one will really never know what will or what could transpire or how it really is unless one is actually experiencing it. If it were Asians who were in the shoes of Muslims, will I feel secure living "outside" among you guys? That there will be no non-Asians who had come to doubt...mistrust...suspect...or hate all Asians, who will not violate me as I walk down the street...on any given time...enjoying the same "freedom" as anyone would? Will you guarantee that no relatives by those killed...or maimed...by the guilty Asians...will not vent their anger on me? Will you guarantee white supremacists and other bigot groups (the real mcCoys), or ordinary citizens with equally fundamentalist ideas will not seize the moment to inflame and incite others? Will you guarantee that others will not be inflamed or incited? And then, how will you protect me from the bad Asians who will hide in my neighborhood? How will you stop them from using me as a shield? Will I always be afraid everytime someone knocks on my door? Will my door end up getting kicked down one day while I am asleep or having dinner with my family? Living outside...I have to be wary of the two factions. I am in the middle. Will you guarantee my safety?

The government protects the Muslim people. Look, it is not as if what I'm discussing about means all Muslim people will be rounded up tomorrow if a bomb explodes on Parliament Hill today. My scenario is that our nation had reached that point.... the same conditions that had made the internment of the Japanese happen.

Incest and pedophilia (latest was the description how a father raped a preschooler live in cyberspace...real-time), mother killing their own children, grandparents starving their grandchild to death.....they are all disturbing and ugly. But we need to discuss them. I want to discuss this...no matter how ugly or disturbing or painful it is. Just imagine how those leaders must've felt before they signed the documents that approved the internmenship. The leaders actually taking responsibility over the fates of the Japanese. But something made them decide to do it. The leader of a nation must protect its own citizens from anyone wanting to do them harm. Even from fellow-citizens. Leaders make difficult decisions.

Who knows, maybe they'll come up with something with immigration policies if things start getting "hot" around here. Like France will have to deal with the same violence every anniversary of the riots....and if the violence starts escalating from merely burning cars and trucks to actual killings....

As for the Japanese, from what I understand...they were targetted and considered the "enemy" because of the Japanese belief that their emperor is "divine"...or like a god. That during the war, the emperor had called out and announced that it is the duty of all Japanese, whether living in or out of Japan, to fight the enemies. Btw, when you also think of the kamikaze pilots (suicide planes)...and their belief of their emperor....there is some sort of a similarity to Islam extremism. It is also based on religion. Still, that doesn't make it right confiscating their properties and possessions.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it isn't feasible at all due to the numbers...and thus, maybe would never even be considered at all. It isn't feasible because it's morally bankrupt. Maybe.

It is a very disturbing thought. Whether you believe me or not, I feel uncomfortable discussing it like this...for indeed, we are talking of a lot of innocent people having their lives altered and disrupted. But I have put myself exactly in the scenario given (see poll question)...and tried to weigh the pros and cons...thinking of and from both sides. I think leaders of yesteryears had grappled with the same unease....weighing and pondering. And I am sure we also had liberal-thinkers and lefties then who had protested and fought against internmenship of the Japanese, the Germans etc.., But in the end.....I guess something had made those leaders to decide and do it anyway. Maybe what's good for the nation as a whole outweigh the others.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it isn't feasible at all due to the numbers...and thus, maybe would never even be considered at all.