betsy

This same evolutionist scientist flatly stated: Andrew Parker http://voices.washingtonpost.com/shortstack/2009/11/probing_genesis_for_scientific.htm So unless you guys offer anything with substance at all, other than your aimless comments, your atheistic opinions are nothing more than just lame efforts to resuscitate your faith in its death throes.

Well Scouterjim, you are going circular with your argument....which actually cannot be called an argument anymore since you're just reiterating and re-packaging your own personal opinion. Either the logic of what is being presented here - as to why the Bible is the Word of God - is lost on you......or you're simply ignoring the supporting facts that's been presented on this topic. These statements here points that you don't follow the premise being presented to you. I don't know whether those dates you've given are factual, and I don't care if they are indeed facts or not. We're not debating which book is older or more ancient. You're trying to rebutt the Christian claim regarding the Bible.....but you're placing the focal point of your argument on the ages of the books you've given! Yes I asked you to give me ONE ancient book - and I'm asking for only ONE cite of book from you - that's similar to the Bible! So far I have not gotten a singe valid sample of a similar book - not a SINGLE ONE! Let's try again. Since being an atheist/skeptic/non-Christian you will not accept any reason(s) that's based on faith alone - which is understandable - therefore, here are the supporting facts that makes the Bible unique from all the other ancient "holy" books that speak of creation and origin: All these facts are found in the Bible. FACT: Nothing holds up Earth. It is affected by gravity. FACT: The earth is round. FACT: There is an incalculable number of stars. FACT: Mountains and trenches in the deep blue sea. FACT: Invisible atoms, the building blocks FACT: Noah’s Ark and Ship Building FACT: “Many of the great scientists of the past who founded and developed the key disciplines of science were creationists!” FACT: A finished creation. FACT: The universe is deteriorating FACT: The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning FACT:: Existence of ocean currents FACT: SCIENCE REMAINS BAFFLED! FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE FACT: Hydrological Cycle or Water Cycle FACT: PROPHECIES HAVE COME TRUE! FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED!” FACT: Expression - "CURVATURE OF SPACE," still related to STRETCHING UNIVERSE FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health WOUND, SKIN and DISCHARGE PRECAUTIONS FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health WASTE DISPOSAL FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health DIAGNOSIS and ISOLATION FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health CORPSES and BURIAL PRECAUTIONS FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health FOOD and DRINKING WATER SAFETY FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health PROMISCUITY, UNLAWFUL LIFESTYLES and DISEASE FACT: The human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements which are all found in the earth FACT: BLOOD – THE RIVER OF LIFE FACT: RODINIA and PANTHALASSA, One land and one ocean! Furthermore, here is a recent statement of one respected biologist, - from your own camp - Andrew Parker: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/shortstack/2009/11/probing_genesis_for_scientific.htm Therefore, show me an acient "holy" book similar to the Bible! PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!

Excerpts from Living Truth, Charles Price transcripts: The Word of God http://www.livingtruth.ca/Res-TRAN.asp

It's not only the Hindus. There are others who don't believe in the Christian God. I am intrigued by your statement, "But they are polytheists"....I don't get what you're saying about polytheism. Why is being a polytheist particularly significant? It doesn't matter how many gods or intertwined religions there are, - I've heard of Chrislam (combination of Christian and Islam) - even if one of them involves our God, it won't work out simply because it goes against the Commandments of God. You've got to know and understand the Commandments of God (and most importantly refer to Jesus' explanations from the New Testament) for only therein lies salvation. Exodus 20 The Ten Commandments 1 And God spoke all these words: 2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. The first 4 verses of the 10 Commandments emphasize a One and ONLY God. Matthew 22:36-40 (New International Version) 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Isaiah 46 9 Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. 10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’ A lot of these people believe in idols or other gods because they lack knowledge or understanding of the Christian God. Christians are trying to reach out to these people....spreading the news....so they'll be informed! If they're not informed, how will they know they're doing the wrong thing and worshipping the wrong god? I guess this is the Biblical view of the people's right to know. In that same token, it is of the utmost importance for all Christians as well to really read, study and understand the Bible. Some of us may think we are doing it right (like I did)....only to realize that we are just like the Pharisees in the New Testament.

Harper did the same thing again! He got them G8 leaders to remove referral to the 1967 borders from the communique. Obama's nose must be out of joint, since that's a very direct and public show of opposition - before world leaders - to his so-called peace resolution. I feel so proud of my PM! He's not a puppet, nor is he afraid to "rock the boat" and lose the approval of the world community - something all Opposition parties are so worried about!

It is written in the Bible how we may find salvation. Christians are supposed to spread the good news for if we're supposed to love our fellowmen, surely we'd want for them to be saved. My personal view doesn't matter at all. In the end, God is the only one who can judge.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/shortstack/2009/11/probing_genesis_for_scientific.html I should point out that Andrew Parker - despite his findings about Genesis - rejects Creationism and Intelligent Design. This blog was posted for the sole reason that Mr Parker himself had stated the scientific accuracy of Genesis.

No proof that God is non-existent either. Furthermore, the confusions scientists are in as to origin - not to mention the theory of ID - is a step in that direction, that could actually prove the existence of God/Creator/Designer. Scientifically-speaking of course.

Boy, there I was thinking simply atheist or agnostic. Was I ever wrong. There's so many hybrid....."cross-beliefs" if there's even a word....various classifications. There is no longer simplistic "atheist".

There were a lot more offensive gestures these people did like driving a stake through a host (appareently shown on the web, pronographic caricatures etc.., all targetting Christianity.

This might interest some of you out there. Another interpretation on the foundations of the world. More.....http://www.geocentricity.com/astronomy_of_bible/flatearth/doesbibleteach.html

Why is it "indisputable" if it's interpreted out of context? Not all are stupid to not see where one makes an error or one makes a more logical interpretation. It's part of the explanation of the subject being discussed - Mosaic Law! No. I am trying to show consistency and credibility to what I was trying to explain! But you missed the important Mosaic Law! All these things you claim to be inconsistent....cite exact passages so I won't think you're just pulling things out thin air! Foundations of the hills was mentioned right after earthquakes....so yes that was a different "foundation." That's the kind of foundation you meant. But "foundations of the world" being shown was mentioned along with God's rebuke! So to me, that's about moral grounds. Anyway, that's how I interpreted it. There is another version from a source to be posted after this. So indeed He was shown. Supernaturally. If not supernatural, then what else? Pardon me, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that everything in the Bible should be taken literally! What I've said is that: we must not change or add any words in the Bible, since Christ had said so. Big difference in meaning between the two. Because you're declaring the earth is flat just by that statement, that's why! Actually when I read your argument about the Mountains and the trenches....that really mess up all your cases! And I couldn't believe you're really serious about that! As far as I can remember, only when I was sorely provoked. Did I call you any names here ? I've given cut and paste where appropriate - some are self-explanatory that they don't need any redundant explanations. If you don't like my style....hey, no one's twisting your arms to come in my thread. Furthermore, in my long replies to you....I've also inserted my own views...which apparently you have failed to notice or not bothered to read, or....being dishonest about. You guys really hate my sources. Must mean I've got excellent sources....since the opponents want them gone! Meaning: my sources are credible. Hard to rebutt. As for having sources to back your claims up....read the forum guidelines. They actually encourage that for effective discourse! I identified and gave proper credits to my source(s)....so nothing was stolen. Segnasaur, I am in this forum hoping for some mature and honest discussion....not some drag-down insult-fest brawl which demeans not only us, but also the board. You (and a few names) seem to be bent on this kind of interaction. I don't intend to be part of it. Bye.

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." (Psalms 14:1) Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? (Isaiah 40:26) The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. (Psalms 19:1-3) Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them. (Matthew 13:13-15) What may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Romans 1:19-22) Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"; and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile." (1 Corinthians 3:18-20)

Numerous times, the coming of the Redeemer (Jesus Christ) was declared by God and prophecised in the Old Testament. So from the Old Testament God had already planned for our redemption. Not only that, God already knew then too what sacrifices Jesus will go through for our redemption, some of the details of His tortures, scourgings and death were also prophecised. To me, that shows a kind and loving God. As for his "bloodthirstiness" and being so "mean," I hope you don't expect me to know all the answers to that. All I can say - from the way I, personally, understand it - God is the Creator of everything. He can do anything He wants with His creation. He can even make them extinct. Trying to understand Him is no use....after all He did say: "My ways are not your ways. My thoughts are not your thoughts." Here is the Bible passage: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:8-11)

I did not post about Noah's flood simply because science is still debating on that. So at least you admit that the ones I've picked to be posted so far are true claims! As you can see, the ones I'm posting are ones that have been scientifically proven true - since atheists and skeptics will surely not accept just any statements based on faith alone. It's the facts that are being presented here that's supposed to be debunked, discussed and analyzed! Bringing in faith-based events (that are not yet supported by science) as your way to dismiss the actual claims that are proven true is a way of....copping out. For an ancient Book to have as many factual claims is a staggering evidence that Whoever gave the information to the authors of these factual claims indeed have intimate knowledge of details only a Creator a.k.a Intelligent Deisgner would and could know. And that points to the Judeo-Christian God! Of course fundamentalist atheists - as expected - would resist that at all cost, because that blows up your belief of no God.

Above is an example of an out-of-context interpretation. Below is most of Daniel 4. 4 I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at home in my palace, contented and prosperous. 5 I had a dream that made me afraid. As I was lying in bed, the images and visions that passed through my mind terrified me. 6 So I commanded that all the wise men of Babylon be brought before me to interpret the dream for me. 7 When the magicians, enchanters, astrologers and diviners came, I told them the dream, but they could not interpret it for me. 8 Finally, Daniel came into my presence and I told him the dream. (He is called Belteshazzar, after the name of my god, and the spirit of the holy gods is in him.) 9 I said, “Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you, and no mystery is too difficult for you. Here is my dream; interpret it for me. 10 These are the visions I saw while lying in bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. 12 Its leaves were beautiful, its fruit abundant, and on it was food for all. Under it the wild animals found shelter, and the birds lived in its branches; from it every creature was fed. 13 “In the visions I saw while lying in bed, I looked, and there before me was a holy one, a messenger,[c] coming down from heaven. 14 He called in a loud voice: ‘Cut down the tree and trim off its branches; strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Let the animals flee from under it and the birds from its branches. 15 But let the stump and its roots, bound with iron and bronze, remain in the ground, in the grass of the field. “‘Let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, and let him live with the animals among the plants of the earth. 16 Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times[d] pass by for him. 17 “‘The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of people.’ 18 “This is the dream that I, King Nebuchadnezzar, had. Now, Belteshazzar, tell me what it means, for none of the wise men in my kingdom can interpret it for me. But you can, because the spirit of the holy gods is in you.” Daniel Interprets the Dream 19 Then Daniel (also called Belteshazzar) was greatly perplexed for a time, and his thoughts terrified him. So the king said, “Belteshazzar, do not let the dream or its meaning alarm you.” Belteshazzar answered, “My lord, if only the dream applied to your enemies and its meaning to your adversaries! 20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth, 21 with beautiful leaves and abundant fruit, providing food for all, giving shelter to the wild animals, and having nesting places in its branches for the birds— 22 Your Majesty, you are that tree! You have become great and strong; your greatness has grown until it reaches the sky, and your dominion extends to distant parts of the earth. First, let's make it clear that the king said he had a dream. So he related his dream to Daniel for interpretation. Daniel's interpretation was that the tree was the king! 22 Your Majesty, you are that tree! This has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

Most of the responses here given by the scoffers are based on ignorance of the Bible! It's obvious, they either parrot Dawkins and others like him, or just willy-nilly pick out a Bible verse or statement here and there and try to pass it off as a source for their argument. I've got news for you guys. If you don't understand or just quote-mine a statement and/or take things out of context, you'd find statements in the Bible that says "there is no God." I guess you need Bible 101. How to read and interpret the Bible.

I hope you notice that at least, I'm peeking and taking a look at science - and not just popular science rags either!

And you're not listening. He did not...."mellow." He EXPANDEDthe Commandments of God. Example, the 10 Commandments said "thou shalt not commit adultery." You think adultery starts with the act? No way, said Jesus. Jesus' explanation on that: you already commit adultery if you entertain wet dreams about the other person's spouse! Does that sound being "mellow" to you? I don't know what you mean about that ganja word. For all I know you're talking about voodoo! Cite the passage!

Oh? You got to be kidding! Small scale compared to the past? Link please.

Perhaps if Topaz recalls that last year Canada was voted as having the happiest people on the planet, and that was only during a minority government.....she'll be optimistic not only about the second 4 years!

What's volcanic eruptions got to do with this??? Your source didn't mention upheaval caused by natural disasters as a factor. Have you read that Iceland is closely followed by Japan - considering not only the powerful earthquake and tsunami it experienced, but also the nuclear catastrophe and the blow to its economy as a result of it!

Here is when you know they realize they're losing their argument. They start with the insults and the name-calling! This is a classic dead give-away!

Check out your science. We're talking mountains and trenches UNDER the ocean! How would've sailors navigate that???? How could've they even suspected, what more determined that there are mountain ranges and deep trenches and valley in the depths of the ocean! You're trying hard.

DONE THAT! Genesis 22:15-17 15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Try counting the sand on the seashore!