tml12

They are getting there, Bubber, and over here our job is to support the troops of Iraq, the U.S., the U.K., and our own troops who were covertly sent there, in order to protect the Iraqi people.

"anti-Americanism" has to be put in context. America's supreme expertise is promotion which includes hype, mis-representation and sheer fantasy. Anyone who tries to inject any reality is immediately labelled as Anti-American when all that they are displaying is healthy scepticism rather than blind Groupthink. You then must put the criticism in context. When I drive down to Plattsburgh and I am in some bar or diner and I criticize Bush policy, the most likely response I'll get from an American liberal is agreement and from an American conservative is a political debate. Not once has anyone in the States ever called me "anti-American" or denied my right or some American liberal's right to criticize Bush policy. I think most Canadians, especially on the left, are reported exaggerated events in the states by a heavily left-leading MSM.

Definitely agreed by everyone I'm sure. What I was stating there was having kids take different classes based on their intelligence... which I've since thought about and realised it was crazy. That's cool...your clarification has been well-received...

I have often been criticized for believing that the primary function of schools should to equip future generations to find jobs, but how can it be any other way? For the 90% of the population that won't really contribute anything past their labour to society, your exactly right. But the other 10% should be getting something more out of school than just employability skills. Maybe we need to start assessing children at a young age (6 or 7) and spliting them up into class levels dependant on their intelligence. Smart kids get a liberal arts and science education, the remainder get trade labour and employability skills. The benifets to society would be enormous, and I'm about to get called a fascist. The separating of students into different classes based on level of understanding of the subject, "streaming," has proven to be an extremely effective method. I think it should be continued because it benefits all learners.

Leafless, you are imagining all kinds of boogeymen on the streets of Canada, and then generalizing your paranoia to anyone you see who doesn't look like you. Your original post that started this thread was about going to a polling station and seeing people you knew nothing about, noticing that they had a different skin tone than you, and assuming they were in cahoots with every other dark skinned person to take over the country. You can't see that there is inherent racism in that. I'm not denying that there is crime in our streets, and a disproportionate amount of it is committed by minorities. That doesn't make all minorities responsible for the crimes, any more than you are responsible for the crimes of Paul Bernardo and Clifford Olson, just because they were white. I agree with Melanie here.....Mel, do you think that part of the problem is with our immigration system? It is unfortunate for all minorities when a few bad apples give people like Leafless amunition for racist comments. But it's unfortunate that criminals be allowed to enter this country at all, and/or that deportation is not abrupt when new immigrants contribute to crime, gangs etc. I think the problem may lie with an immigration/ court system that allows criminals to stay in the country. Criminals support criminals after all and if we weeded them out from the start, I think there would be far fewer of them around. What is sad is that so called "native Canadians" (now there's a good one coming from a caucasion male)...can dwell on the few problems we actually have in this country relating to gangs etc. and who do not embrace cultural diversity and its benefits to Canadian society. Concerned, Well the sky may have fallen, because I actually back you 100% on this one ( ).

Good post Betsy...I agree with you completely on that.

I don't know much about him but here's his Wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Savage_(commentator)

Apparently the above link doesn't work, so here is what is from the above link with that being the original source. MONTREAL -- A peewee hockey tournament in Montreal became a trip into hostile territory for a busload of Americans who say they encountered such fierce anti-Americanism that they will think twice before returning. During a four-day visit, boys travelling with their Massachusetts hockey team witnessed the burning of the Stars and Stripes and the booing of the U.S. national anthem. When travelling in their bus emblazoned with a red-white-and-blue "Coach USA" logo, they saw people on the street who extended their middle fingers or made other angry gestures. On the ice, the Canadian players told their visiting counterparts that "the U.S. sucks" and dispensed other anti-American insults, the Americans said. "It was a shock to go to a tournament and have kids saying this to us. These are our friends that are doing this," Brockton Boxers coach Ernest Nadeau said. "We didn't expect Canadian players -- especially young boys -- would take things to that extreme," he said in an interview. The 11- and 12-year-old boys from Brockton, 30 kilometres south of Boston, had been looking forward to the hockey tournament in Montreal. But parents who accompanied them said they were unprepared for the depth of anti-American sentiment over the U.S.-led war against Iraq. One parent, Bill Carpenter, was so upset he cancelled his family's vacation to Quebec this summer. "We were very offended by the whole thing," said Mr. Carpenter, who accompanied two sons on the trip. "I understand the opposition to the war. But we were made to feel unwelcome just about anywhere we went. "Montreal is a 5½-hour drive for us. It's not like we were travelling to Syria or France or Germany," he said. "As Americans, we felt in the past that Canada was our closest ally and friend. No one told us we were heading into unfriendly territory." The trip soured soon after the Americans rolled into Montreal on March 20. Their bus entered downtown Montreal just as hundreds of college and university students were marching through the streets in an antiwar demonstration. Police cruisers spotted the U.S. bus and escorted it to its hotel on Sherbrooke Street as a safety precaution. A police officer urged the visitors to remain in the bus until the protest passed. The children watched as several demonstrators made obscene gestures toward the bus. A U.S. flag was dragged through the street. "We felt horrible," Mr. Nadeau said. "How would you feel if the Canadian flag was dragged down the streets in the U.S.A.? This is a country that's supposed to be our ally." That night, about a dozen families went to the Montreal Canadiens-New York Islanders game at the Montreal Bell Centre, a much-anticipated visit planned months in advance. In a gesture later condemned, the U.S. national anthem was widely booed by the crowd, leaving the visiting American children perplexed. "The kids were just questioning, 'Why are they doing this?' " said David Cruise, who was there with his 12-year-old son. "It's hard for them to realize we weren't in America any more; we were in a different country. "I said, 'They're booing our national anthem because they don't like us.' " Mr. Cruise felt so uncomfortable that he left with his son after the first period. "Whether you're for or against the war, we have guys over there dying," Mr. Cruise said. "The next time, we'll stay in the States. I'm not going back there again." The visitors say anti-American comments continued when the young players faced off against the Beverly Bandits, a team from Beverly, Ont. U.S. players say the Canadians hurled insults during face-offs and at other times. "They told us we sucked, gave us the finger and said 'Down with the U.S.A.' or 'The U.S.A. sucks," Mr. Nadeau said. At one point, a Canadian player made a disparaging remark about the United States "and the referee turned around and said, 'I agree with you.' "What stunned us was that the referee, who is supposed to be unbiased, is agreeing with the boys on the ice." His players "wanted to retaliate" against the Canadians, but Mr. Nadeau said he urged them "not to do anything foolish." Denis Desrochers, president of the minor hockey team in Beverly, west of Hamilton, said in an interview that he had heard nothing about the anti-American slurs. "It boggles my mind that the kids would say that. They don't even talk about it," he said. "I wouldn't tolerate it. Whether you're American or Canadian, you're not allowed to swear at any kids." On Saturday, Mr. Carpenter went for a walk downtown with his two children as another antiwar demonstration unfolded in Montreal -- one of several that drew huge crowds in a province staunchly opposed to the war. Mr. Carpenter came across a knot of demonstrators surrounding a protester who, with an Iraqi flag and a U.S. flag, had climbed atop a traffic light. The crowd cheered when the man waved the Iraqi flag, and booed the U.S. flag, Mr. Carpenter said. Then the protester doused the U.S. flag in kerosene. "It went up in a puff of smoke and flames, and the crowd went wild. They were all cheering," said Mr. Carpenter, whose 24-year-old son, a U.S. Marine, was sent to retrieve bodies of Americans killed in the 2001 terrorist bombing of USS Cole in Yemen. Mr. Carpenter tried to explain the anti-American displays to his children. "I said to my kids, 'These folks disagree with our government, not you personally.' " As they crossed the border into the United States, cheers went up in the bus. "We were very, very happy to get back home," Mr. Nadeau said.

ModerateAmericain, "Bullshit. If anything killed the American spirit, which i do not believe is dead; simply dormant, it was "You cant sing christmas caroles in school, its discrimitory." The same people who piss and moan about what America is are the same ones for years that have been destroying is values. The United states of America wasnt founded by Islamics, or hindus, or buddhist, it was founded by Christans who set it up as a country UNDER GOD, which provided religious freedom to anyone who came here, i seriously doubt the founding founders thought "well lets take christianity out of are schools and replace it with morale decay. That is why more and more American parents are taking there kids out of public schools and placing them into private which in turn lowers funding for public schools, which in turn means low income families, who cannot afford to send kids to private schools, are getting less and less quality education. All because little muhammeds momma didnt think that the 98 percent christian school was violating her little boys rights. All the while daddy Muhammed who took the job of the guy he shot back in the ass in the first gulf war, because he will work for peanuts educates his kids then moves back to iraq. You want to know whats killing America, letting immigrants run it." EXTREMELY well-said moderateamericain. My respect for you increases each post from you that I read because you are a straight up, honest, and truly moderate American who understands that the majority of Canadians (including myself) and Americans (including yourself) respect the Canadian-American partnership and the majority of kind and good people who live in each country. You, I hope, understand that "Concerned" represents the element in Canadian society that most Canadians are not proud of. We respect Americans, we opened the door to hundreds of thousands of American citizens in the Maritimes after 9/11, and we would do it again in a heartbeat. I have regularly met U.S. soldiers who vacation in Montreal and thanked them for defending the freedom and ideals that we cherish on this continent. "A friend is a gift you give yourself." -Robert Louis Stevenson

Concerned (Part III), It appears at this point you are either downright delusional or you know very little about the American people. I regularly go down to Plattsburgh and we criticize Bush's policy and I don't see the CIA trying to take your average American liberal out. I think you must have a sordid obsession with the ACLU. There are no threats in the U.S. if you speak out against Bush... BTW O'Reilly's comment was based on an American hockey team that came here to Quebec to play hockey and were disgraced by extreme left-wing Canadian nationalists... Maybe this refresh your memory: http://www.runaked.com/forums/political-so...ey-peewees.html Since it is okay by your morally bankrupt standards for left-wing Canadian social fascists to hurl insults at 11-year old Americans but I, for one, find it odious, repulsive, and sordid... :angry:

Well, maybe not right away. Seems to me they want our water, our electricity, our lumber, our airspace and oil. 60 Minutes presented the latter's significance to the USA. Did you know that Western Oil Sands owns 20% of the Athabasca Oil Sands Project, and that the EXO and VP represent American firms Chevon/Texaco, and BHP. Yaro is correct when he implies that the American administration (particularly the Republican ones) is motivated to action when it can be of benefit to itself. "We could have taken them (Canada) over so easily... (But) all I want is the western portion, the ski areas, the cowboys, and the right-wingers." - Conservative pundit Ann Coulter on the November 30 2004 edition of FOX News' Hannity & Colmes "They [Canada] better hope the United States doesn't roll over one night and crush them. They are lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent." - Conservative pundit Ann Coulter on the November 30 2004 edition of FOX News' Hannity & Colmes Concerned (Part II), Yes of course. And we all know that Ann Coulter speaks for a *clear* majority of Americans on that one, right???

Concerned (Part I), "tml12 : It appears that your knowledge of the history of who started what war is derived from the American Media, or perhaps from your American friends who are largely influenced by it." Actually it is derived from reading history books from leading U.S. and E.U. authors. I don't ever watch American media with the exception of CNN, which is actually quite critical of U.S. policy. Then again, to the Canadian left there isn't much difference between Sean Hannity's views and Anderson Cooper's views, now is there? "In the words of my communications professor: "there is no free lunch", the American Media reports biasedly in favour of consumerism: never bite the hand that feeds you baby." "TINSTAFL," the acronym for "There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" is a basic economic policy that does deal with consumerism, however your average Canadian is no less "consumeristic" than your average American. Furthermore, I have only heard the U.S. media encouraging Americans to buy from U.S. companies which is, of course, only appropriate. Many Canadians only buy from the clothing company "Roots." Would you consider this an evil form of American consumerism? "Not to mention "fear sells". The US government, and in particularly the Bush Administration play on this and gets away with (mass) murder because of it." Not sure what you mean here other than to dish us up more urban myths and quasi-leftist intellectual dishonesty. "You need to go back a little further to understand who was really responsible for starting things. Try reading Naom Chomski for more in depth history that the American Media did not address." I am sure that to someone as far left as you, Noam Chomsky is completely unbiased. But to me, and your average moderate, Noam Chomsky is a far left, anti-Semitic, anti-American, anti-military individual who should stick to linguistic study, not foreign policy. BTW, you are accusing me of being "brainwashed" by a supposedly far right U.S. media and suggest I read a book by a far left author. I find this hypocritical. "I too have American friends, and when they come to Canada they watch our news reports about American policy in awe and disbelief. Nothing against the American population, its the regime and the system that we criticize." I too watch CBC with awe and disbelief, what with their anti-American leftist agenda who wouldn't???

Yeah, I mean, everyone understands that terror doesn't grow out of hatred. . . Heck, based on the SPLC's definition of hate groups, the Liberal Party of Canada could have been classified as a hate group based on its recent campaign commercials. But in terms of classifying groups, I wouldn't put al-Qaida and the KKK in the same category. I would put the Liberal Party in a hate group all itself though... Actually i do put Hate groups and terrorist into the same category. In alot of cases they work hand in hand. EX: 1960-1980's Ireland. Worked the same way with the FLQ in Quebec so I can't disagree...

Very few, actually. Why is the term pedophile offensive? I think its appropriate to how offensive their conduct is. Adults male/female offending against male/female children or any permutation thereof is much more offensive than labelling them as a pedophile. I meant I found their conduct disgusting, not that I am offended by the etymology of the word.

"Priests have very easy access to many children and adolescents of both sexes as well as adults, of course." That is probably true, but I wouldn't compare a priest to a gay CEO and again I am unsure how this would mean that gay individuals take more pleasure in seducing children.

I have often been criticized for believing that the primary function of schools should to equip future generations to find jobs, but how can it be any other way?

1/3 to 1/2 of victims being women (and more likely closer to the latter given the composition of the plaintiffs in the class action law suits) completely invalidates your claim. This is farcical. I am not going to take an "estimate" by a single woman, based on the people she sees at support meetings as evidence when the overwhelming number of reports have focused on priests abusing males. Unless, of course, you can find some logical reason why abuse of girls would be completely ignored by the media. According to dictionary.com: 1) A "pedophile" is "an adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children." 2) A "homosexual" is "Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex." 3) A "heterosexual" is "Sexually oriented to persons of the opposite sex." Only one of those terms, "pedophile," do I find offensive. We know about the issues with Catholic priests in this country, but there are also many issues where Catholic priests molested "altar girls." The Catholic Church only recently began having altar girls and there are a very few...if you are a priest who, naturally, cannot have sex or be married, and you are "aroused," you will probably go after what is around you. There are not many women in executive positions in the Catholic Church. This may be why we have so much data on it. I am going to have to agree with YankAbroad that I don't think there is any correlation between homosexuality and the desire to commit acts of pedophelia.

There were no implications beyond the humor of it, but that the Liberal government was brainless is a no brainer. Martin's dithering decision (try saying that ten times fast) to allow same-sex marriage and then seemingly feel so awful about allowing it that it appeared he may go to Confession was quite hilarious. Talk about playing both sides of the issue.

Amazing. And Klein's still just as mentally sharp as Ariel Sharon is today! Klein's term will be done in 2009 or so...the right-wing parties, not Klein himself , have been in power since 1921. 88 years!!!

They probably took a look at New Orleans and saw the results of 50 years of liberal rule. *shiver* That's one way to look at it. Some others would blame recent climate change, admitted by all except the radical right, for hurricanes that are coming in greater frequency and strength than ever before recorded. Yes, it may seem like I'm out on a limb, but at least I have something of an a rgument going, which is more than can be said for your brainless post. Boru, After your vicious and baseless attacks on me I am going to "go out on a limb" and agree with you. There is no doubt in my mind that the climate issues we are dealing with are a direct result of global warming and a dangerous increase in greenhouse gas emmissions. We need to bond together as a nation to do anything in our power to create a "Made in Canada" plan to deal with the environment as quickly as possible. You may call me a "right wing radical" for saying we need to dump Kyoto, but as someone who takes a very left-wing approach on the environment, I must say the Chretien government signed Kyoto and then sat on their asses while our greenhouse gas emmissions went up 24%.

Eloquently put Arif. Thank you for your comments. And for setting Wilbur straight. Exactly the comment that I was hoping for when I started this thread. Yes we know Concerned. You titled this thread "Harper's Foreign Policy" and then went on a rant about US foreign policy. It had nothing to do with Harper at all. Sure it did. Harper and his party and its ideologies are similar to Bush's neo-conservatives. Harper is very much a Bush supporter and Bush is happier than a pig in slop that Harper is now in power ( to the extent that he cares about Canada at all, but he's a pig in slop anyways). I'm sure that you were one of the supporters of the Iraq war and I'm sure you would have been pleased to have seen Harper back the Americans in their attack. When you actually have some Harper foreign policy to talk about, get back to us. Agreed. I don't believe Harper has sold half this country to the Americans yet as the left would like him to do as quickly as possible so they can get their extreme protectionist paranoid Liberal government in to "save" Canada.

Boru, When did I say that Harper was being anti-American? But you're wrong, Boru, to conclude the arctic water issue is not partisan. If we arm up the arctic with ice-breakers it will, to an extent, cause international controversey.

It is going to take Harper years of resisting bribes and standing strong to figure out every Liberal scandal that went on...

"In the Mulroney era, the CBC was criticized as being a Tory tool. Same accusations for the last 13 years of Liberals." Maybe it favours the governing party at the expense of change? Because I was young and incoherent during the Mulrooney years...

Look where it got him: a one-way, non-return trip, to the Eastern Townships...