BeaverFever

1) The baseless claims of massive fraud without evidence have nothing to do with the Democratic process They are a direct attack on it 2) The Dems never did this This is not the same as Al Gores recount which was required by law

I’m curious, what would it take for you to accept that Trump legitimately lost the election? Which people or what sources would you trust to tell you that Trump is wrong about this... or any other topic? Because I believe that you @taxme, and @WestCanMan will simply believe and parrot whatever Trump himself says even if after all his claims are rejected in court and all your trusted sources and Republicans abandon him and admit there’s no evidence to support his claims Your brains are hard-wired to zealously believe that ifTrump says the world is flat then it must be true and anybody who says otherwise is part of a vast conspiracy Whether you’ll admit to it or not, when people with your way of thinking latch on to a leader, in your mind you elevate them to a supernatural god-like infallible figure and when reality conflicts with that image the only way to reconcile the discrepancy is to resort to absurd far-fetched theories about vast conspiracies. You guys used to be the same way about George W Bush but now that he’s a thing of the past he’s chopped liver to you. Some day in near future Trump will be chopped liver to you also as you become infatuated and fall head over heels for the Next Man (and it will be a man I’m betting). Unfortunately based on your trajectory the Next Man will probably be a lot worse than Trump.

No evidence of a rigged election has been provided. You have chosen to believe there’s fraud ON FAITH hoping that the evidence will surface and you will be proven correct in the future. When that doesn’t happen and all of Trumps legal maneuvers have been dismissed by the courts, will you abandon your unfounded beliefs or will you go on screaming that there’s vast conspiracy?

So spit it out already! Either you’re confident he’ll win or you’re not. What’s the harm in a friendly non-financial wager?

The American people do. And they did. It seems it’s the Republicans who need to be reminded that they don’t decide the election. They’re the ones pursuing this.

Here’s whatThe Atlantic has to say about that: Lawsuits aside, what about the idea that state legislatures in Republican states could simply appoint a Republican slate of electors for Trump, thereby flipping the Electoral College to him? Is this cause for alarm? To begin with, even talk of doing so would trigger massive unrest and put legislators under unprecedented pressure. A Republican leader in Pennsylvania’s state Senate has said that the legislature has no further role in choosing electors, though there’s been some troubling talk more recently among Republican legislators to open an inquiry into supposed election irregularities in the state. Moreover, legislatures would have no legal basis for going against voters’ will. The Constitution does give state legislatures the right to set the manner for choosing presidential electors, but they have already set the manner: the use of popular election to assign Electoral College votes on a winner-take-all basis in every state but Nebraska and Maine. In theory, state legislatures could try to declare under a part of the Electoral Count Act that voters have “failed” to make a choice for president, entitling the legislature to choose electors. But voters have made a choice, and there is no plausible argument that fraud or irregularities infected that choice. For state legislatures to do this, we are out of the realm of legal arguments and into naked power politics, where the choice of the president would get duked out in Congress. We can keep going down these rabbit holes, and though surely there are some very dark possibilities, none of them is likely. Republicans know this, and they are perhaps just “humoring” Trump by allowing him to believe that he has a path to victory. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/trump-needs-three-consecutive-hail-mary-passes/617063/

No not what I said. But elections don’t get overturned because of a single case. Isolated incidents happen in every election. But there is zero evidence of the organized massive scale fraud that would be required for the hundreds of thousands of votes needed to turn the election to Trump. I am confident that Trumps cases will lose in court. But the problem with saying “let him have his day in court” when there is zero evidence is that you’re basically saying every election loser should drag out the election outcome with litigation even when they don't have evidence of wrongdoing. Every election loser would do it because they have nothing more to lose by trying and can at least be satisfied that they’ve sabotaged the winner’s term in office by fomenting conspiracy theories that they came to power illegitimately America will not survive that as the new normal Al Gores case totally different. He did not sue to claim fraud. NOBODY WAS CLAIMING FRAUD OR IMPROPRIETY. The Florida recount was triggered automatically because there were fewer than 2,000 votes between him and Bush. Bush’s lead narrowed to just 537 after the final official tally. As Bush’s lead narrowed, Bush successfully halted the recount in a republican- dominated supreme court, prevailing in court over Gore’s plea to COUNT EVERY VOTE. And yet Al Gore conceded the election despite disagreeing with the ruling... it was later revealed that had a statewide recount been conducted Gore would have won. Yet for the good of the country he conceded even though he was up against a Republican Supreme Court and Bush’s brother was in charge of the Florida recount

So you’re not confident Trump will succeed. Got it. Tell you what’s I’ll give you 4:1 odds. If I lose, I have to use the avatar of your choice for all of 2021, but if you lose you only have to use one of my choosing for 3 months. Does that sweeten the deal? We’re not talking money here just that little dog pic next to your name briefly changing to a pic of Biden or Obama or something.

So that’s 2 chickens so far. And then there was one. What say you, @taxme? Do your courage and faith in Trump Almighty also fail you when you’re called upon, the way they’ve failed your 2 fellow followers @Infidel Dogand @WestCanMan?

It’s not an actual group of people. There’s not like an antifa leader or a formal membership. You’re Antifa simply because you say you’re Antifa. Being Antifa is like being a surfer or a vegetarian or a dog lover. You are because you say you are. Now are there surf clubs and vegetarian meet-up groups and doggy playdate groups? Sure, but they’re not the THE entire group, just a small gathering of individuals who want to apply that identity to themselves.

Funny sentiment from you, given the “election fraud” claims you’re making woth ZERO evidence and every state official denying it. What have you said that’s “verified”?

And the total lack of ANY evidence?

Every state is the enemy of the people. Only Trump knows what the people want and need

LMAO ok I’ll make you a bet, same goes for @Infidel Dogand @WestCanMan: If Biden/Harris become president and VP you have to change your avatar to a pro-Biden or pro-Democrats/pro-Liberal avatar of my choosing for all of 2021 If Trump somehow becomes president another term then you get to pick my avatar. We can work out the rules to make sure there are no unfair catches Deal?

No that’s not how it goes you don’t know what you’re talking about The problem might be lack of brushing your teeth (or dentures) Do you though? Sounds like another improbable claim with no evidence ?

Before you said it was some grandiose scheme to stuff the box with invalid out of state and late ballots. Now suddenly it’s not that it’s the counters only counting votes for Biden. The ever-evolving conservative conspiracy story...still with no evidence as is usual

I can’t wait to throw this back at you as the states certify their votes for Biden, and then again when the electoral college does the same and then a third time when Biden is sworn in to office. It’s going go be a fun 70 days!

The US was lucky to get Trump – Biden may pave the way for a more competent autocrat ...The United States of America is fundamentally divided. It is divided between exploiter and exploited, oppressor and oppressed. There is no unity to be found with kleptocrats and oligarchs. Any attempt to pretend there is will lead to political failure. It will lead not to healing but to a deflected polarisation. If Americans are not polarised against plutocrats, they will be polarised against each other. ... Obama’s attempt to reconcile irreconcilable forces, to paper over the chasms, arguably gave Donald Trump his opening. Rather than confronting the banks whose reckless greed had caused the financial crisis, he allowed his Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, to “foam the runway” for them by allowing 10 million families to lose their homes. His justice department and the attorney general blocked efforts to pursue apparent wrongdoing by the financiers. He pressed for trade agreements that would erode workers’ rights and environmental standards, and presided over the widening of inequality and the concentration of wealth, casualisation of labour and record mergers and acquisitions. In other words, he failed to break the consensus that had grown around the dominant ideology of our times: neoliberalism. Neoliberalism has been neatly described by William Davies, a professor at Goldsmiths College, as “the disenchantment of politics by economics”. It sees politics as an ineffective or illegitimate means of social improvement. Decision-making should be transferred to “the market”, a euphemism for the power of money. Through buying and selling, we establish a natural hierarchy of winners and losers. Any attempt to interfere in the discovery of this natural order – such as taxing the rich, redistributing wealth and regulating business – will inhibit social progress. Neoliberalism disenchants politics by sucking the power out of people’s votes. When governments abandon their ambition to change social outcomes or deliver social justice, politics become irrelevant to people’s lives. It is perceived as the chatter of a remote elite. Disenchantment becomes disempowerment. Before neoliberalism triggered the financial crash of 2008, its doctrines were treated as orthodoxy across the political spectrum. Obama had a chance to break from this cage, to confront the powers that “the market” disguised and the social divisions it caused. But he chose not to take it. Grace and decency alone cannot defeat structural injustice. Trump stormed into the political vacuum. Chaotic and unscrupulous, in some respects he offended the neoliberal consensus, ripping up trade agreements, while in others he reinforced it. But the important point is that he was a monster the consensus created. His success was a product of the fake unity and fake healing of elite political agreement. When mainstream politics offered only humiliation and frustration, people turned to a virulent, demagogic anti-politics. Biden has turned leftwards since he was Obama’s vice-president. There are some strong policies in his platform. But there is also a determination not to break the consensus by directly confronting the donor class.... ...His measures to support small businessare positive, but they will count for little unless he also breaks up big business, starting with big tech. He has promised to raise taxes for the rich. But the plutocrats will laugh at him until he wages war on tax havens and secrecy regimes, starting with his home state of Delaware. Unless Biden unites the people against the oligarchs who dominate the nation, the people will remain divided against each other. It might seem strange to note that the US was lucky to get Trump, but it was, in this respect: while he is power-mad and entirely lacking in conscience and empathy, he is also impetuous and incompetent, and failed to follow a clear programme. In other words, he was a hopeless wannabe dictator. He was also unfortunate: were it not for the pandemic, he might have won again. But he has blazed a trail for someone more effective: someone with Trump’s absence of moral constraint, but with a determined programme and a cold, strategic mind. If Biden fails to break the political consensus, in 2024 he could open the door to a competent autocrat. Writing in the Atlantic, Zeynep Tufekci names some plausibly frightening candidates. Before we consider solutions, I think we have to recognise the possibility that US politics might not be fixable. The system is constitutionally padlocked; beholden to the power of money, which is reinforced by the supreme court’s catastrophic Citizens United decision, removing the caps on political spending by lobbyists; perhaps now terminally confused, frightened and angry. But if there is a solution, it must involve the re-enchantment of politics. What does this look like? I suspect it means a tub-thumping left populism, inveighing against billionaires, against big money in politics, against the stripping away of public protections, against white collar crime and in favour of the radical redistribution of both wealth and political power. It would reach past an obstructive Senate and supreme court to appeal directly to the people. It would build and sustain social movements that are bigger than the Democratic party, using its activist base not just to win elections but also to drive home political change. Though Biden is a political chameleon, and though I will never abandon hope, it is hard to see him fulfilling this role. Perhaps I’m being too pessimistic, but at this early stage his presidency looks to me like an interregnum between something terrible and something much worse. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/us-trump-biden-president-elect

Harris is not a progressive she’s a “safe bet” establishment centrist. They both are

Trump is the literal definition of sleaze. From his scam enterprises like Trump U to his numerous affairs and sexual assaults Let alone all the ways he’s used the White House for personal profit and influence peddling

There’s no evidence of that... especially on a scale that would change the result of the election or a state. And how would that work as a conspiracy anyway? The Dems convinced thousands and thousands of people to move out of state just before the election, forward their mail then illegally register to vote and mail their ballots back fo Dems? Doesn’t make sense.

Taxme said there would be violence if “the coup” is not stopped. So in similar comments, he and Fiddle and WestCan have already decided that it’s an indisputable fact that this alleged coup has taken place. They did NOT say they would respect or accept a court decision that disagreed with them in fact they’ve suggested the contrary. They’ve already turned on fellow Republicans who don’t support the lawsuits. You are also mistaken about the out of state and late arriving ballots. Military members and students studying out of state vote in their home state. That is not illegal. But your Republican propaganda leaves that part out when they scream about finding out of state ballots. Pennsylvania and North Carolina laws also allow late ballots as long as they are postmarked by election day. PA will count ballots arriving up to November 6 and NC up to November 12. That’s state law. But your Republican propaganda leaves that part out when they scream about finding late arriving ballots.

Because they wear masks and are not stupid enough to uave super-spreader events Seriously? You find it “highly suspicious” that people who wear masks and practice physical distancing are less likely to get COVID than those who don’t take even basic recommended precautions and think COVID is a hoax ? That “proves its a sinister conspiracy does it? LMAO Do you find it “highly suspicious” that people who use condoms and birth control are less likely to accidentally get pregnant? Do you fun it “highly suspicious” that people who don’t stick their hands in a running blender tend to have more fingers than people who do? “THEY’RE ALL CONSPIRACIES!!! ??????

Red states have been higher for months now. Try and keep up.

Hypothetically spea, what kind of outcome would it take for you to accept the election results and that trump is wrong? What is a source you would believe? Because we all know that WHEN his all these phoney fraud claims fail you will all scream “conspiracy!!” at anyone who tells you otherwise no matter how many of them were news sources or officials you previously trusted. You keep saying the courts will vindicate you and when they don’t you just say the courts are rigged and keep going Thats why your predictions of violence are threats. Because the right is promising violence if the courts to give them the results they want. You’re not demanding a fair trial or an honest investigation, you’re demanding to be named the election winner or else bloodshed.