Zeitgeist

You live in an imaginary world. You clearly have no idea where our monarchy and country came from. Both originated in battle. Kings raised armies and offered protection to feudal vassals. It was because they won battles and were able to hold lands that they were recognized as kings. In a Parliamentary Democracy the monarch’s role is much more symbolic. However the symbol is powerful because it represents the culture and the country over thousands of years. Where do you think Canada’s institutions came from? Do you know about the Plains of Abraham defeat of the French or the Battle of Queenston Heights resistance against the Americans or Vimy Ridge where Canada assembled 4 divisions in WW1? Paintings of the battlefields line the walls of our Senate Chamber. I hate to have to say this, but I actually don’t think you know much or care much about any of that, which is why you can’t fathom why Canadian sovereignty and identity mean anything. I don’t know your background but I can see that much. Also you don’t seem to understand that money has allowed for the highest forms of exchange and trade of goods and services. Without it you cannot build an advanced society with the lifestyles we enjoy today. Without having a currency that represents the value of things, there’s no way to value labour or effort in a diverse large economy. I will grant you one concession here, which is that as we automate our society and human resources become less necessary for the basic production of our goods, we will need to find ways to make jobs that traditionally paid less pay more. We will need to find ways for people to feel valued and connected to a system of production that in fact won’t require much from them. We need to remove the machines from our restaurants and grocery stores and replace them with people. We may need to de-automate portions of our economy so that we maintain a sense of community and make people feel valued. That’s a separate issue from protecting Canada as a culture and country. Well, not entirely, because Canada has embraced modernity, but some innovations have eroded our sense of community and wellbeing.

I’m well aware of those. Vietnam had an arguable purpose, as did the first Gulf War, though the first became an entanglement. The second turned into an unnecessary entanglement after the 2nd invasion of Iraq. Also, Canada is in America, well North America. Culturally and economically it’s so similar to the U.S. that in many respects it acts like the U.S. Canada is in some ways a better version of the U.S. in terms of safety and social cohesion. It simply needs major restoration. It needs to straighten out priorities and act more carefully and tactically. If it does, Canada can be very strong again. Isn’t it funny though that it’s in many ways a Canadian version of MAGA that’s going to rescue Canada. We need to return our institutions to their original purpose and make government leaner. It’s the Conservative message. America First is reminding us to put Canada first, which means scrapping a lot of foolish Liberal anti-Canadian rhetoric and overbearing, bloated, irresponsible government. Trump may be good overall for Canada by reminding us to get our act together. Any imperial adventure to try to make Canada the 51st state against the will of Canadians isn’t worth the cost to Americans. We need mutually beneficial partnerships or both partners suffer.

The day the U.S. invaded a country simply to take its stuff under false pretences of national security or open theft is the day that the U.S. loses any moral authority that it has left. Not only would it be internationally condemned but it would be domestically condemned by millions of Americans as an unamerican act, in violation of its own constitution and supposed values. The rules based order of the West and the pacts that support it, from NATO to the WTO to other economic treaties, would be abrogated and dissolved in one fell swoop, returning the world to medieval power grabs and atrocities, without regard to the Geneva Convention, international law, or any moral codes. Could the U.S. do it? Sure, but Russia could also nuke the world. Just because one can do something doesn’t mean one should do it. Occupying a country is a much bigger challenge than invading it, which is why we all had to leave Afghanistan eventually. It’s why Napoleon and Hitler retreated from Russia. Conventional warfare is neither advisable nor necessary for the U.S. to have control of Canada. Trump was stating a fact when he pointed out that without access to the U.S. market Canada struggles to an extent that Canadians would not want to endure. Nevertheless, the U.S. would struggle too without our purchasing of their exports and without affordable access to our goods, especially energy and minerals. That doesn’t change if the U.S. invaded Canada, because those mines require minors and companies and local businesses. Local people do the extraction. If they tried to bring in Americans to do it, they would become locals and have to occupy the lands against hostile Canadians who are indistinguishable in appearance from Americans. It would weaken export markets for America and turn the world against America. It’s really that simple. The US already has access to our resources through USMCA, so what’s the upside of subjugating a population? The only way Canada could become part of the U.S. in a way that benefits the U.S. is if the Canadian citizens choose it because they perceive it as beneficial to Canadians, so if Trump is serious about Canada joining America, make the case to Canadians and Americans. As of right now Canadians are not feeling the love. They perceive Trump as coercive and threatening, so the reaction is Canadian nationalism, unity, and greater independence from the U.S., despite the costs of pursuing it. I still don’t think it’s too late to make the case for concrete guarantees against future tariffs in exchange for assurances that are reasonable, and this could include the free movement of goods, services, and people, like in the European Union, but America is more protectionist now, not less, and it is talking about expansion through economic pressure, causing Canada and other governments to take protective measures against American belligerence and unpredictability. There’s simply no choice for Canada if we wish to protect our interests and bargain from a position of strength.

Canada’s government, like its universities, is ideologically captured. Rather than hearing Trump’s vision for Gaza and Gazans, the knee-jerk reaction is to make claims of genocide against the U.S. It’s so predictable now. “Canada and the U.S. are settler-colonial genocidal.” The radicals influencing our institutions take no notice of the fact that in Canada the group that kept more slaves than anyone was Northwest Coast Indigenous or that many Muslim countries continue to oppress their own citizens. It took Trump waving a stick to remind everyone that there are consequences for irresponsible ideologies and misrepresentations. I still don’t think Trudeau gets it.

I would probably prefer US-CAN, simply called America, to Canada alone depending on what we can retain. For example, I don’t mind having US citizenship and a U.S. dollar and all the rights of statehood, but I can see the value in retaining much of our healthcare and low-cost pharmaceuticals, with the option to pay for private services. If it’s US citizenship then we need to be able to vote in federal elections, which I’m sure the Yanks don’t want. I’m also certain that Canadians won’t support the 2nd Amendment. I’m not sure I want the guns coming up either, though I see both sides of the argument. That makes the most viable options to either carry on independently, but we’re going to have to rely a lot more on our domestic market and do more domestic manufacturing, refining, etc, as well as diversity trade away from the U.S. (difficult), or we retain our sovereignty and border, but integrate fully on the free movement of goods, services and people, without federal voting rights for residents from the other country. The latter option seems the most realistic and promising, especially if we still try to expand markets and domestic manufacturing. However, we would need strong guarantees that such an agreement can’t simply be violated without good reasons. Bogus claims of national security by a president cannot ever again be grounds to impose tariffs on Canada. This is really the question going forward: More independence or more integration? The status quo is untenable. I’d love to roll the clock back to 2014 Canada, but much has changed and much change is required just to restore what we lost.

Totally agree. Post-National State is the erasure of Canada. It goes hand in hand with the false narrative of Canada as genocidal when it was and remains perhaps the least violent, least oppressive, most harmonious society on Earth, probably also the wealthiest in terms of natural resources, education, and social safety net overall. Chretien and Harper understand this, but of course we lapsed into weakness by relying too much on government to take care of us, too much on America to defend us, too much on international organizations to tell us how to think and live. We also bought into dubious ideas about identity and radical activism. Canada has lapsed into socialist complacency. The courts and media have bought into the phoney overdone anti-Canadian woke-green rhetoric. We overspent on unaffordable programs, some of which just aren’t effective. We stopped asserting our rights, which our Constitution probably doesn’t enshrine properly. We don’t even have protection of property. Too much state intervention. Not enough energy and entrepreneurial spirit. Lagging productivity. Compromised healthcare. Screwed up priorities on defence and resource development. All of this can be turned around. Now it must be turned around or we stand no chance defending our interests against the interests of the behemoth to the south, unless we join the behemoth.

I like it. This approach brings hard power and focus on unlocking the economic potential of Canada, which when divided among 41 million people should make us the wealthiest country in the world, especially once confidence returns and our dollar strengthens. That was our trajectory under Harper. That’s the trajectory of a well-managed independent Canada. Any kind of economic union with the U.S. would have to be something better that doesn’t include giving up what Canadians value. US-CAN citizenship in a much larger land mass would also have tremendous value, perhaps more value, but we haven’t heard the case for it or seen evidence yet of a consensus around what that would look like for the citizens of both countries.

I don’t think most Canadians understand the extent of U.S. self interest and the risks to Canada. The best protection and probably the best advancement of Canadians’ interests is to be inside the most powerful and prosperous country, especially as it benefits from the resources that it's already secured in Canada in exchange for access to US markets. Canada does have economic strength and influence in future trade wars, especially as the country unites and focuses. However, there can be consequences in the other direction that are unpredictable. Markets don’t like unpredictability in either country, which is why the tariff threats must stop. It will hurt America’s international stature and drive other countries towards diversification away from the U.S., even if tariffs hurt some countries more than the U.S.. I also think it’s in both countries’ interests to take a constructive win-win approach to trade negotiations and political arrangements in North America, because coercive approaches cause backlashes and new problems. Canada should openly consider the extremes of greater integration and greater independence and options in between. The U.S. should consider what it wants. An informed public on both sides of the border should decide. Canadians need to be aware of the realistic options before them and the costs of each. Some sacrifices may be worthwhile for a better long term outcome that balances security, prosperity, and cultural expression. Democratic principles must apply throughout or we lose the goose that lays the golden egg.

You may be right, and I don’t think that’s a good thing. There has to be a way to increase opportunities for the citizens of both countries by combining resources, land, and citizens while reducing duplication costs, yet allowing for the distinct non-negotiables for both countries to persist. Republican, Democrat, Liberal or Conservative brands don’t matter as much as compelling figures and ideas. There’s always the option of keeping the countries as distinct sovereign entities but allowing the free movement of goods, services, and people. Leave out voting rights if you’re living in your non-native country. The problem with that option is that the Yanks could pull the rug out from us at any time, whereas if we’re all citizens of the same country, we can’t be at the mercy of tariffs or other U.S. vicissitudes.

Exactly. Canadians have literally been raised to fear the US and to describe Canada’s disadvantages as advantages. I think of the conversations with my mother and in classrooms growing up. That’s not to say there aren’t some Canadian advantages. Canadians generally don’t want as many guns and they like many aspects of single payer universal healthcare, Americans do spend a lot more on healthcare and they have an almost third world infant mortality rate. However. in Canada our wait times are ridiculous and we don’t have enough diagnostics or doctors. Our permissive MAID is symbolic of some of the failures of our system. I think retaining a simple border as merely a security checkpoint and allowing the existing healthcare system in Canada to persist, as well as our cheap generic drugs, would work well if patients also have the option to pay more to access private clinics, which would reduce some costs of our system. It would allow a layer of added state gun control to persist as long as Canadians want it. Otherwise I think full U.S. citizenship and adoption of the U.S. dollar and statehood would be hugely beneficial to Canada and what would become the Rest of America. There would have to be minimum length of residency rules to obtain our healthcare for Americans living in Canada to keep it affordable, unless the Americans could duplicate the same universal access that Canadians have. Perhaps Americans could get our pharmaceuticals at exactly what we pay under new agreements. Many of the kinks are easily ironed out. The benefits of a massively wealthy newly expanded country and the synergies of the combined economies would be staggering.

I don’t know sometimes if Canadians understand the value of being American. Yeah there’s the obvious stuff like gas being half the price in some states or being able to live in warmer places and having a stronger dollar, but a U.S. that included Canada would be something quite astonishing in world history. The economic strength of that union and the opportunities open to Canadians would be hard to fathom. What’s more, I’m not convinced that Canadian culture would be weakened, because the resources and upward mobility resulting from so much more opportunity really puts both countries on another level. Are we spinning our wheels trying to duplicate everything just so we can say it’s different from the Yanks? Are there ways to retain what we value and ditch what we don’t?

Wasn’t that just the left wing lunatics?

Do you know what it’s like to work at Tesla or X? Is the compensation lousy?

Ha ha, true. He’s changed the Republicans into the workers’ and entrepreneur party. The Dems are the coastal elites and establishment. Funny how platforms can flip.

Well that’s what it’s all about. Want to play with the big boys? Act like one. Featuring on Drag Race and bragging about how feminist he is won’t cut it for PM, not even for governor.

Canada in 2014 under Harper - Strong dollar, low inflation, low unemployment, low debt, international respect, strong national pride, thriving families Canada in 2025 under Trudeau - PM referred to as governor, size of government increased by 40%, double the debt, national pride at all time low, martial law declared and deemed unnecessary, climbing unemployment, weak dollar, discriminatory racialized-only jobs, high and climbing home prices and cost of living, increased assisted suicide, leading cause of death among youth is hard drug use, rising violent crime…

Isn’t that the truth? Like I don’t want tariffs because ultimately our trade is pretty balanced and I don’t want our economy or people hurt. I do like watching the country sharpen up to the things we should’ve been worrying about all along. The fluffy identity politics Liberal overspending and anti-Canadian rhetoric was the stuff of out of touch ideologues who don’t understand what matters to people and what makes a country strong. It’s like interior decorators were put in charge of the military and the whole point of government was forgotten.

Isn’t there an equity committee meeting somewhere you should be attending right now? The Cultural Revolution isn’t going to run itself.

Don’t you mean China-led? Trudeau is an admirer of the basic dictatorship. We got a glimpse of his kind of Post-National utopia when bank accounts were frozen.

Don’t you mean Post-National State? The Liberals have dispensed with “colonial, genocidal” Canada and cancelled Sir John A.

Trudeau looks like a weak fool on the international stage: fake feminist rainbow sock puppet of Davos. He couldn’t reach out to a hurting population during outdated Covid restrictions and imposed martial law and froze the bank accounts of protesters. He has shamed Canada and created an endless identity politics pay-out welfare scheme for Indigenous and other groups designated as victims and superior humans. He has compromised free speech and meritocracy through the politicization of our courts and government bought mainstream media. He and the Liberal-NDP have squandered our once strong financial position by overspending, buying votes, and over regulating our resource sector. The carbon tax has increased cost of living. Mass immigration has cut our housing supply and raised home costs, not to mention stretched our social services and social cohesion. The hard drug use, government-assisted hard drug injection sites and permissive MAID are just icing on the low birth rate, rising crime, shrinking middle class cake.

I agree, and we don’t even consume our own oil and make our own gas out of it for domestic consumption. We rely on Texas. We can’t pump it east because of Quebec resistance. Well Quebec better realize that if we lose our independence, all the bilingual kowtowing to Laurentian elites and pouring money into Quebec ends immediately. Oh and the BC elders stopping BC pipelines can hand over their status cards to Washington. This is why Canadians need to take a hard look at our “Canadian” federal government, which has not served our sovereignty or Canada’s interests.

The learning from this trade war is that economic power and strength trumps (pun intended) right and wrong in the hands of a self-interested strongman. Canada must be ready for that at any time.

Walmart is successful because it has cheap stuff. It has cheap stuff because of cheap Chinese manufacturing and the economy of scale of Walmart being the biggest retail department store. Amazon is successful for similar reasons. Sadly the ma and pa stores suffered and the population doesn’t care. Also, their national loyalty in a trade war likely won’t stop them from buying cheap stuff at Walmart, partly because we’ve let the cost of living in Canada climb too high through regulation and taxation. We let ourselves become unproductive and indebted, which lowers wages and currency value, making us poorer. Money talks, bullshit walks. This is why Canadians should consider 51st state. We need to be a lot more careful on debt, taxes, and regulations, because it weakens our bargaining position and economy overall.

Trump got gains from this trade game. What did Canada get? Also, a significant reason why Trump took a stick to Canada is the ridiculous woke-green mess that Trudeau has championed in the West, a mess that has shamed Canada and cost Canadians countless billions. Trudeau must go. The wake up call from this is that we must never make ourselves so vulnerable again, neither in trade nor militarily, unless we want to become de facto Puerto Rico, which Canada is now. At least Puerto Rico uses the U.S. dollar. Our currency is weak and we earn significantly less than Americans now. We were in better economic shape than Americans a decade ago. I wonder what changed?