Zeitgeist

But do you think those are motivating factors for Canadians anymore? What are the motivating factors? What do Canadians actually want? Is it just sovereignty? What does that mean? I do think democracy matters. I value Canadian history and culture. I’m just not sure that’s what this is about even for Canadians. I guess we’ll find out. What constitutes winning? Is it mere economics? Maybe it is, but if it’s only about the money, that’s probably 51st state.

Why? What do you like about how we do things differently in Canada than America? I’m talking policy, our system, our sovereign distinctions. Canadians need to answer this question and decide how much each of these distinctions mean to them. If these things mean a lot to Canadians, more than trading them away and simply accepting the American way of doing things, then pressuring Canadians into giving them up won’t work. Even as a U.S. state, Canadians would want to keep some of these things. The U.S. government should be explaining options that they would be willing to accept. The Canadian government should be laying out options that they think the Canadian public would accept and that the American public would accept. If it appears, after a full consideration of these options and referenda, that the public doesn’t support 51st state, then America becomes the belligerent oppressor if it simply imposes unfair trade policies because it can. It will not win Canadians over in the realm of ideas, making America that brand no one wants. Its products would be shunned. I do think the U.S. government underestimates Canadian public sentiments on these matters. And you’re right, America may not care and may do it all anyway. I just don’t think Canada will bend to what Trump thinks the U.S. should get. I think it will hurt both countries and force them further apart, squandering an opportunity for a strong economic union.

Yes, Canada is America. That’s the reality that Canadians refuse to accept and that Trump is highlighting. The high and mighty Canadian “We’re not American” attitude is increasingly ridiculous, because the Canadian government only badmouths Canada’s roots and refuses to defend the country. Trump is basically saying, grow up and embrace reality. The problem is that there is actually a Canadian exceptionalism over things like healthcare, multiculturalism, and multilateralism. There’s the Loyalist history and there is actually a formidable military history in the world wars, the peacekeeping efforts, the peace between the Protestants and Catholics, the social cohesiveness and generally peaceful society. Canada is a less violent country than the U.S., and you’re right, we haven’t embraced the Second Amendment. Canada is still considered a viable third way by most Canadians and many people around the world. Trump has to recognize that Canadians want to retain some of these things because they do have appeal to many people. Look, Canadians and Europeans have that rejection of guns and embrace of socialized medicine in common, whether Americans like it or not. Using force against Canada to make it accept terms the Canadian public doesn’t support isn’t the way to seek economic union and greater opportunities through synergies in our economies. It just isn’t. Sure, it will energize Canadians out of necessity, but it’s too much stick and not enough carrot. Why should Canada embrace greater integration with America? Make the case. Or is it just about might is right empire? Is that a winning strategy for America? I don’t think it is because I believe that a well informed public, and information has a way of spreading, will always oppose tyranny and unfairness. That’s the appeal of democracy.

Well you know my opinions of the current Canadian government and my connections to the U.S. I’m fine with 51st state because I think Trump is basically right that we pay stupid amounts of money to maintain a separate country government that doesn’t even uphold Canada’s culture and defence. I know that the cost of increasing Canada’s independence is high. I’m not the guy that Trump needs to convince. The Canadian public isn’t on board with Trump, however, on the whole, which makes his attempt at seeking greater advantage over Canada costly for Americans, because it’s not just about trade agreements, it’s about public opinion and spending choices. People can reject the American brand. Oh, it won’t be obvious right away, but when there’s a flood of properties available in Florida and Arizona because Canadians are selling up, when no California wine is being sold in Canada, when tourism dollars in the U.S. start to evaporate, sure, Americans can mow each other’s lawns and Canadians can do the same, but the result of less trade and less business activity is less money and higher costs. Maybe that’s worth it to Americans. It might surprise Americans to realize how much Canadians are willing to sacrifice too. Sadly, the best way forward for both countries could end up lost in the nationalist fervour, but such fervour can be a powerful motivator.

Well Canadians need to be aware of the ways in which Canada has been forced into compromising positions by the U.S. Canada was forced into a diplomatic crisis with China over the U.S.‘s attempted legal action against a Wuwei executive, resulting in the detainment in China of two Canadians on bogus charges of espionage, etc. Canadians need to understand the ways we are manipulated by BOTH China AND the U.S. The question is, do Canadians want to pay the financial costs of greater independence or do they want to capitulate to Trump’s economic pressure to cave in on unfair trade demands and maybe even become 51st state? I suggest that there are good reasons for Canada and the U.S. to seek a common market. There are good reasons to consider 51st state, but the belligerent tariff moves will likely push Canadians towards greater independence. Is that a good thing long term for both countries? Well, we’ve been there before. Does it make a virtue internationally of the Canadian way? Well, right now given Trudeau’s mismanagement and unpopularity, I’d say not so much, but all it takes is a new PM and the end of the Trump honeymoon bluster to change the dynamic radically. Trump is spending a lot of precious political capital on this gamble.

This act of unjust belligerence will turn the tide of world opinion, not just Canadian, against all things American. It’s happening very fast. The retooling of the Canadian economy away from trade with America that results will be very interesting because a lot of Canadians are talking about no longer travelling to the U.S. for conferences and vacations. They’re looking at bailing of of US real estate and looking more closely at places like Portugal and Central American countries. They’re looking at new export markets and markets that produce similar products to the ones we import from the US. Interestingly, BC Indian chiefs are now talking pipelines to export our oil and natural gas. Also interesting is that Quebec seems to be softening to the idea of Energy East. Basically we ship oil to markets in Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes. We refine it in Canada and provide cheap gas at Canadian pumps. Cut out the Yanks from access to our energy, including cobalt and and rare earth minerals used for EVs, defence, etc. Canadians are energized to act.

Right, Canada must cancel all U.S. military procurements Apparently LCBO is cancelling all orders of U.S. booze. It’s not nothing. This will not push Canada into America. We know Canada will feel this. America will too. I also think it’s time to look at opening new trade deals with Britain, Commonwealth countries, etc. Cut America out of all deals. Amp up Anti-Americanism internationally to unprecedented levels.

It won’t be buy only Canadian, it will be buy anything but American. We can buy almost all the same stuff from other countries.

Trump will lose the trade war because he started it and all of America’s trading partners will simply trade more freely with each other and stop buying American. Tariffs have zero to do with our border security because the Americans are responsible for controlling what comes into the U.S. and very little of threatening consequences enters the US from Canada. The $1.3 billion Canada just spent on border security was a waste of money and it won’t make any difference to Trump. Trump’s political capital will sharply decline in the coming weeks and months as the complex supply chains work through these costly increases and American industries are targeted by countermeasures. Non American populations will rally together posting lists of American products to avoid and lists of domestic products to buy. Our citrus will simply come from Mexico and South America instead of Florida. Canadians, Europeans, and Asians will stop travelling to the U.S., killing destinations like Disney or Hollywood or New York. Snowbirds are already selling properties in the southern US to to high insurance, currency exchange, and other expenses. The end result will be a massive world realignment away from the U.S. Canada will refine and buy more of its own oil and ship more of its natural resources to countries other than the U.S. It will also buy less American. Initially Canada will take an economic hit, but the adjustment will be swift. Canadians and other countries will have less trust of Americans and see them as a belligerent force for bad in the world. It doesn’t have to go this way. There’s a strong argument to be made for economic union and even Canadian statehood, but if the population feels pressured economically or in other ways, the longer term response will be less trust of an unpredictable belligerent America and a shift to greater independence.

Well again the question is how much more are Canadians willing to pay to prop up an already expensive regime that doesn’t provide much value and doesn’t really believe in Canada as a country? The regime shames its cultural roots and juices its growth rates with mass immigration (even as per capita GDP and incomes fall). For what, a weak dollar from which the wimpy DEI Liberal leaders have removed our first Prime Minister? I’ll take 51st state over Post-National gender confused state.

How much of the federal government and its various important-sounding bureaucracies are these kinds of Potemkin villages: fake gestures at accountability, governance, and justice? If in fact the system is a largely useless, expensive facade, maybe it needs to be replaced by an actual theme park with Mounties and moose and log cabins. How much of this show we call the Canadian government actually does things that serve the public? I mean, any fool can collect workers’ money, take a massive chunk of it in the form of taxes and give back little pieces as various rebates. But what does it provide? Military defence? Not really. Postal service? Well we pay for that when we buy stamps and most of us barely use the postal service. Airports? We pay some of the highest airport taxes and flight costs. Issuing passports? Yeah that’s going real well. Indian Affairs? The payouts keep climbing with nothing but more anti-Canadian rhetoric to show for it. Is the cost of propping up this whole facade worth it? At least a theme park has rides and you only have to pay admission if you choose to visit. I wonder how much more money has to be wasted to prop up this bloated DEI self-loathing federal money pit before people see how artificial and unnecessary so much of it is.

My prediction is that if the tariffs go through after Canada already wasted $1.2 billion to buy helicopters and other overpriced crap to solve its fake border problem (there really isn’t one, and in any event the U.S. is supposed to manage who comes in as we have to manage what comes into Canada), then the result will be more government wasteful spending to postpone an inevitable result, which will be a major realignment away from US markets. It will mean Europe and South America, Asia and Africa. It will also mean more interprovincial trade. It will mean more refining capacity. It also means that all stupid fluff gets scrapped in a hurry: DEI, climate action,, etc. Those are good things. However if the overspending persists, we’ll be even more vulnerable to accepting lousy terms. If Canada amps up the spending long term and doesn’t adapt, then yes, it’s 51st state or worse. Canadians don’t understand how deep the problem is of our dependence on the U.S. or how grossly irresponsible this socialist government has been. We were in a good position under Harper: low debt, strong dollar, responsible government. Really we just have to get back to that, but our foolish Liberal government has played into the hands of someone who is good to take full advantage of our weakness. Getting us back to that pre-Trudeau position of strength is a very tall order right now. We, the U.S., and the world are in different positions. Personally, I suggest that our government take an open, honest look at what 51st state would mean right now, including how it would play out for our healthcare and social safety net, state rights and powers relative to a federal government in Washington, etc., as we should be looking at realistic options for Canada and what would be best long term. Alongside that option, we should lay out the costs of greater independence, which will be high, especially until we realign our economy. The other options are in between those two options, but because of our current vulnerability, some options may not be open to us if the U.S. won’t embrace them. We should know asap what realistic choices are in front of us instead of simply overspending now to postpone the inevitable. Canadians are still a highly educated, highly skilled people sitting on very precious real estate. Don’t underestimate what a unified, driven Canada can achieve, but the current leadership is irresponsible and out of ideas. A new Conservative government will have a strong mandate for change, including some sacrifices early on.

If it gets to that stage in Canada, I can promise you there will be much bigger problems than culture wars and bogus claims of Canadian colonial genocide to worry about. The truth is that if Trump tries to use economic pressure to impose a state of affairs on Canada and multiple countries, as well as unfair trade rules, that Canadians and the peoples of other countries oppose, Canada will find many other willing partners with which to trade, including for oil, gas, and rare earth minerals. Canada will at that point become more independent from the U.S. and ride out the economic costs, because the population will be on a unified mission. The U.S. will pay an economic price and lose respect internationally, especially since this whole mess will be of the U.S.‘s making. If Trump chooses this course of action, the result will be a collapse of world markets and domestic demand in the U.S., as the realization hits that people can’t afford the higher costs and volatility. I don’t just guess this. I know it. Trump has an opportunity to forge new strong partnerships with Canada and other countries based on a more common sense set of common cultural values. There’s even a chance to expand opportunities for the citizens of both the U.S. and Canada through a new economic union. However, if this tariff brinksmanship goes off a cliff and hurts average Canadian families, Canada will become more independent from the U.S. and Americans will be resented. Canadians will adapt and they won’t forget. It’s a short window of opportunity for Trump. The bluster and pride could backfire, and other powers will fill the void left by a belligerent U.S.. The trade imbalance between the countries is exaggerated. This sabre rattling best die down before good hard working people get hurt, because if they are, it won’t end well for the U.S. and Canada will come out the other side. Decency and democracy win.

Yeah why would you want to live in a civilization and continue to collect your benefits? Leave town and scavenge for your food according to the pre-colonial native ways.

Then you must’ve occupied a separate reality. Teachers used to hit kids in schools. The strap was used routinely. I know directly of adults older than I am who mentioned harsh physical punishments. This wasn’t uncommon at all. It wasn’t right, but it was widespread

Because it’s a gross misrepresentation of both the intent behind the Residential Schools and what actually happened. No bodies have been found. There was abuse and conditions could be crowded. Well abuse was in all schools. These schools were created by progressives like you, in the name of providing literacy and a leg up. Yes assimilation was part of the deal as it is in virtually all countries today. We had flags at half mast for a year and false claims of genocide. Many churches were burned down and our federal leaders said it was justified. The false impressions have stuck internationally and for most Canadians. The people who were involved with these schools and some like Ryerson who had indirect involvement are all painted as evil. It’s wrong, but this is the story we’re teaching students and the story that’s used to hold the current Canadian population hostage financially for events they didn’t cause. The descendants of the Irish Catholics who couldn’t own property or vote in Britain aren’t asking for reparations, but they don’t count as much as the Indigenous. In Canada today some groups have special status and are considered more deserving than others.

I do wonder about this Pope.

I know you make the case for Confederation being a kind of reclamation of the Confederacy, but it’s also important to remember that British North America had its own complex history since the beginning of the American Revolution until 1867. I know you’ve also mentioned Confederation being a shotgun wedding due to fears of American expansionism and the Fenians after the Civil War, but also remember the great achievement that Confederation was in terms of creating peace between Protestants and Catholics, anglophones and francophones. The Canadians of today forget those histories except the anti-colonial Residential School genocidal Canada narrative disseminated by the Post-National Liberals. These people hypocritically claim to represent Canadian values and sovereignty while undermining it through woke messaging in schools and government speeches and policies. This government has also burdened its population with internationalist projects like ESG and fighting the “climate crisis”, meanwhile expanding government, raising the cost of living, and flooding the country with immigrants from everywhere that isn’t representative of the country’s cultural roots. How does any of that represent anything Canadian or serve Canadians? It certainly isn’t helping us economically as productivity, birth rates, and incomes lag the U.S. Basically our government has given us the worst of both worlds: less national independence and lower living standards. Why would I believe that this federal government serves Canada and Canadians more than Washington? At least Washington defends us.

Carney would be turned into mince meat by Trump. Carney speaks the word salad language that carries no meaning whatsoever. Can you tell me a single one of his policy plans? No, because there is no policy plan. He was advising the Liberals but supposedly has a different approach than 6 weeks ago. Gimme a break. Poilievre is a well-articulated, authentic challenge to Trump and an antidote to the Trudeau Liberals. Both electable parties are anti-51st state, but I actually want to hear more about what that would look like. Would the benefits of being paid in US dollars, living and working anywhere in the US, and having all of the access of other US citizens to the entire continent north of Mexico, not to mention lower taxes, outweigh the loss of this increasingly ineffective federal government in Ottawa? Canada’s federal government has put itself on the hook for endless payouts to Indigenous, endless barriers to development on huge swaths of the country where we’ve committed to endlessly consult with the elders. We can’t afford our current social safety net. We can’t defend our country against foreign attacks unless the Yanks do it for us. We don’t even have a merit-based hiring system because our institutions are so knee deep in gender-confused equity ideology. At this point the country needs a major realignment, whether that’s pursuing the costly nationalist policy of becoming more independent from the US, which Poilievre champions or becoming more integrated into the US. The current situation is unsustainable and under attack by the new president. Canadians cannot pretend that we can defer doing anything. If we do nothing, economic reality will reduce our options. If there’s a middle ground between 51st state and greater independence, it will look different from what we have now. Canadians should be looking at all possible options and weighing the benefits. I would rather live in the 51st state under Trump than under the Canada-hating Liberals who have significantly increased the size of our government and debt, have destabilized our culture and raised the cost of living, especially housing, through mass immigration, over-regulation, and taxation, and made us captive to Indigenous activists and woke-green radicals. Climate change? You’ll be lucky if you can keep your job in this economy.

Well Trump is probably realizing that the Conservatives are going to expand export markets and boost domestic refining capacity. He may be thinking that the Liberals are a weaker defence of Canadian independence. What do the Post National Liberals care about Canada? On the other hand this may be a rare switch where the Liberals take pages out of the Conservative playbook and try to out-conservative the Conservatives. No thanks, I’ll stick with Coke Classic and vote Conservative.

Carbon Tax Carney? He’s the ultimate elitist. Fully credentialed Goldman Sachs and WEF globalist stakeholder capitalist.

It comes down to how much independence from the US means to Canadians. What if it turns out that our own Canadian bureaucracy is holding us back? There’s a dream of Canadian independence and strength with healthy alliances. I think the closest we came to it in my lifetime was under Harper. If we could have something like that again, that would be enough for most Canadians, and it doesn’t require compromising our sovereignty or irresponsible spending. It’s far from perfect but it would be a good start.

Yup. Kinew is a likeable guy, but his pitch is a continuation of the jellyfish victim narrative. It’s weak. The NDP are all about expanding the welfare state and cannibalising the strong and successful. It’s a compelling story in certain contexts, but we need rallying cries to hard work and self-reliance.

Any Liberal leader is dead in the water come election day. People yearn for the days of Canada under Stephen Harper, when our dept was low, our dollar and national pride strong, and our international image was respected. Really if we could restore those conditions we would be in a good place. The Liberals wrecked that.

I agree. Unfortunately it’s often wars and economic hardship that remind people how hard life can get and what matters most. They realize that not everything is up for negotiation. I don’t want to see tough times ahead, but their possibility is hopefully a wake-up call. Covid ironically removed the masks hiding the self-interest and controlling nature of the elites. At least that was definitely the case in Canada. Government is disconnected from its people and the the everyday hardships of workers. I believe that’s why we see the rise of populism and rejection of status quo politicians.