Zeitgeist

That situation of the Canadian death row inmate isn't comparable to the situation in Saudi Arabia. These were peaceful political activists. Also, applying the death penalty for murder wouldn't be considered a human rights violation, though it's interesting that most democracies have eliminated the death penalty. Some Catholic clergy used to support it, but now the Pope has spoken out against it. Eliminating it has been the trend worldwide.

NAFTA received very mixed reviews upon implementation in Canada, but the conservative argument was that it codified the right aspirations: increased exchange of goods, services, and ideas to enhance the growth and progress of all countries involved. It's that goal that was important, whether it came in the form of NAFTA or another agreement. The deal created growth in all three countries, but each country made concessions. The deal always had many naysayers in Canada, but the consensus among trade experts is that lowering trade barriers is good, understanding that there need to be protections for vulnerable sectors like farming. We all know you continually harp on, bush_cheney2004, about how much more everyone else needs America than America needs other countries, and there is nothing to prevent the U.S. from pursuing isolationist policies and putting up trade barriers. Countries would adjust by reducing trade with the U.S. Canada is pursuing open markets and the free exchange of goods and services with trading partners. Canada has been very active on this file, from CETA to TPP. CETA is provisionally underway. You talk about various trade barriers in Canada, knowing full well about the U.S.'s softwood lumber duties, its protectionism against Bombardier, its subsidies of farmers, its refusal to appoint judges to the WTO, and the recent steel and aluminum tariffs set up against multiple trading partners, including Canada which has balanced trade with the U.S.. You'll keep citing supply management, as though that was ever about international trade. Half of Canadians don't care about supply management, but the point is, it's a domestic system that was set up to protect the livelihood of small farmers long before NAFTA. I do think that Mexico is better off leaning on non-U.S. trading partners right now, because the U.S. is going to push them in a bilateral deal, as they will push Canada, Europe, U.K.... It doesn't matter. Any new trade deal with Canada must be fair or don't bother proposing it. I think all grievances can be ironed out if reasonable give and take carries the day, but Canada won't take a bad deal. It will wait out unfair traders and let NAFTA lapse if need be, which puts us back where we were pre-NAFTA. Not a sky is falling scenario. If Trump's negotiators threaten and intimidate countries into bad deals, that will be public record for posterity to reference in future dealings with the U.S.. It certainly won't inspire followers. I come back to the same questions: What kind of world do you want to live in? What do you want your country to stand for? Maybe also worth considering that the U.S. economy has been doing very well. Your cries of unfair trade with Canada ring pretty hollow.

I actually think Trudeau should've come out swinging on this. The Canadian Foreign Minister's tweets were entirely appropriate and necessary. If the day comes when countries can no longer stand up for their citizens by calling out human rights and free speech abuses of their citizens, that is a very sad day indeed. Are we already there? Canada is right on this. Allies are cowering to the Saudis. It's incredible to see the liberties dictators are taking these days. The big loser is freedom worldwide. I wonder who inspired this behavior.

There is a huge difference between Canada and Mexico, first of all. We have a strong and diverse economy and a highly educated workforce in Canada, as well as a large middle class. One of the compromises Canada made in joining NAFTA, to its detriment, was accepting that many large companies that maintained national head offices in Canada would no longer need to do so, as Canada, the U.S., and Mexico would be treated as a single domestic market. Canada has faced exactly the same manufacturing challenges as the U.S. in terms of the offshoring to low-cost labour jurisdictions such as China and Mexico. We're also all facing the challenge of automation and the very real challenge that at some point the tech feedback systems that we've created could very well end up running the show for us all, as they know us better than we know ourselves, something to monitor carefully. Read Hariri on this. So beating up on Mexico and China will not bring back all the jobs. The wiser move is to bring higher labour, environmental, and human rights standards to trade agreements, so that the playing field is more level in terms of attracting workers by labour cost. These lower cost jurisdictions will have to make the necessary investments to raise their standard of living closer to ours. Attracting more jobs does help them do this. That was actually the original hope for globalization, that poorer developing countries would see improved living standards and eventually become markets for the goods of the already developed countries, a win-win. This is why simply tearing up NAFTA and shitting all over the WTO and other international rules-based organizations is bad for everyone. The best solution is reform. This isn't elitist globalist rhetoric; this is sound economics. Ideally, all countries will eventually have large middles classes, enforced rule of law, truly representational government, constitutional protections for human rights, and healthy/sustainable environmental and labour laws. This is the big picture we should all be fighting for, instead of this win-lose mentality of beating down whomever you think you can beat, taking as much as you can get, and whatever happens to the planet or anyone outside my tribe is not my problem, until one day of course it is.

Be careful. One day you may be quoted you back to yourself when the shoe is on the other foot. Virtue must ultimately trump economics, if we still oppose slavery, pogroms, mass political arrests, concentration camps...

Agreed.

It's not too late for you to move to Iran.

WTF are you talking about? I don't know of any Canadians working illegally in the U.S.. I know of some Canadians who have worked in or moved to the U.S. and I know some Americans who have worked in or moved to Canada. The migrant problem from the U.S. along our border is a current and pressing problem. Many of these migrants are in shelters and looking for work, but there are tremendous costs in the processing and examination of these cases.

Wrong wrong wrong. Trudeau and Freeland are in the right on this. How dare you stand up for the Saudis against Canada on this. Do you have any respect for the safety and freedom of peaceful activists? You're too busy glorying in watching Canada be undermined by a despotic regime. And where is the State Department on this? To call this "Stupid is as stupid does" is just plain insulting. Canada was standing up for Canadian nationals being persecuted for peaceful protest. Why don't you read about Canada's intervention to help the 50 U.S. hostages in Iran by giving them Canadian passports to safely get them out of the country.

Well you're talking about the provision that allows companies that do business in NAFTA countries to move workers between offices. Most of the head offices of these companies are in the U.S., but removing NAFTA will mean having more head offices in Canada and Mexico, which means more senior managerial and board of director jobs in Canada in Mexico. There once was a brain drain phenomenon when Canada had mismanaged its finances in the 90's and the economy was underperforming. In recent years, when Canada was leading the G7 for growth and then under Trump's travel ban, there has arguably been a brain drain in the other direction and especially in terms of drawing international talent.

You're serious aren't you? Canadians need Green Cards to work in the U.S. just like any other foreigner. By the way, we're ready any time you want to help stem the tide of migrants from the U.S.. Funny, I didn't think I'd see a Mexico/U.S. type border crisis on the Canada/U.S. border in my lifetime, though I had a feeling it would happen eventually when the shit really started to hit the fan down there and the people at the margins started to flee to Canada, which is happening right now. Piracy and copyright infringement are no more a problem in Canada than they are in the U.S. If anything, we pay a higher price for media because our CRTC is quite strict about representing minority cultures in media content.

Well then why did the former King Abdullah not conduct himself this way in response to similar comments from western media? In fact either did the prince until recently. The timing with Trump's recent extreme anti-Iranian rhetoric and policy is too coincidental.

What unemployed workers are we dumping? Last I checked we're all paying similar broadcasting fees and licensing fees to Americans for the same or similar products, though I do remember seeing all those G Boxes for sale in the Fort Myers Florida Flea Market. We're buying the same proprietary Apple shit as you are. I don't know where you get your info, but your characterization of Canada is so off the mark. Our music and media artists work within the same systems. With regard to pharmaceuticals, a clear sore point for you, Canada is able to benefit from bulk purchases because of its universal health care system and to bargain with companies that want to sell into the market. There are also variations of drugs that provide similar treatment to some of the bigger brands, but we still face some very catastrophic drug costs. Again, Americans have come to Canada to buy these drugs and have called on your government to take similar approaches, but you've shut down Obamacare and attempts to expand it. You don't want to hear about other approaches, you specifically bush_cheney2004.

You think by calling yourself "cannuck" that you will be given a pass for trying to excuse the Kingdom's behavior? I still remember conspiracy theorists in the U.S. going nuts over all the presidential hand-holding of the Saudi king and the fact that on 911 the one plane allowed to leave U.S. air space was the one carrying Bin Laden's bro. I guess the hypocrisy has been consistent. This is one of the reasons the U.S. is in such a mess in the Middle East. It can't take an even-handed approach to the various players. It's always alienating one power as it embraces another. Problem is, your new best friend the Saudis contain a supreme anti-U.S. element. Be careful whom you empower. If you think Obama's attempt to reengage and denuclearize Iran was a mistake, wait until you have to clean up the dump Trump just took in the Mideast.

Canada does a lot of logging. It doesn't dump lumber or any other commodities, nor does it steal American IP. Please, we respect copyright and patent protections in Canada. Stop talking about Canada as if it doesn't respect rule of law, especially when your own federal leader is trying to work around it. Scab workers...Right, you're the one who champions Right to Work legislation that undermines the formation of unions and minimum wages. Unions have had their excesses, but they've also raised wages and improved labour standards for all workers, and I'm not a liberal saying this. What American jobs were taken? Funny, the rules can never be stacked enough in your favour. Our unemployment rate is higher than in the U.S. and you sell more into Canada than the reverse. Your comments don't fool anyone with a semblance of consideration for fairness, but that's not what it's about for you, is it? Oh, and "Canadian" taxme, I don't know who is writing your posts, but they're so inconsistent and obviously antithetical to Canadian interests.

Are you saying that America is the moral equivalent of Russia, perhaps even Saudi Arabia? You really don't see how un-American your comments are.

You still don't get the game here. Saudi action has little to do with what Freeland and Co. tweeted, which was not a new kind of messaging out of Canada. Canada was on point given the recent Saudi mistreatment of activists. This is about a newly emboldened Saudi Arabia (given the green light by the Trump anti-Iran shift) testing the waters to see what it can get away with. Trump is enjoying this public dressing down of Trudeau, which he started due to ideological differences and jealousy. The mention of a trade freeze supports Trump's harsh treatment of Canada in NAFTA negotiations. Russia likes it too because Canada took a firm stance against Russia's interference and invasion of Ukraine, under Harper, not to mention Canada's stance on its suppression of dissidents. These are sleezy dealings. Get out of bed with the Saudis and Russians. On Trump's end, it's sad that he and his cadre are willing to throw close allies under the bus for pride and pettiness, but there will be a price, because mistrust of Trump is growing fast and thick, inside and beyond U.S. borders.

Good to know you have our backs.

Yup, no support from the U.S. on an important human rights concern that impacts all "freedom loving people." It's hard to see values in U.S. policy these days beyond the almighty dollar.

Yes they can. You're still promoting persecution of a group for their beliefs. Many of the countries in the Middle East were formed around Islam, to the extent that religion, for better or worse, has been tied to race, much as there is a complicated mix of race and religion for Jews. Don't paint all Muslims with the extremist brush. It's fair to discuss whether hate is embedded in a religion, but it's not fair to persecute all people who call themselves Muslim, which is what Trump attempted to do.

The U.S. runs a trade surplus with Canada.

Right, so this is where you reveal your Islamophobia. The issue is not mainstream Muslims. No, that is really the issue for you, isn't it? The Muslim ban showed the same racist attitude.

bush_cheney2004, you know as well as I do that you will criticize Trudeau/Freeland no matter how great or how little the Twitter messaging because you are ideologically opposed to them and refuse to see anything of value. It's the same attitude that has polarized the U.S. into two tribes that simply oppose and cancel anything the other side does, right or wrong. Also, this isn't about Trudeau/Freeland; it's about Canada. Recognize when Canada is in the right, or do you hate Canada? Believe it or not, standing up against Wahhabism and other forms of extremism and oppression is in U.S.'s interest.

You do realize that for a while the U.S. and U.K. were supplying the Saudis and their coalition partners involved in the anti-Shia action in Yemen?

Those contracts were signed before we knew how the equipment might be deployed. They should be canceled.