Goddess

There's a wide range of of villains we could blame for the violence in Islam - NATO, colonial history, the tough time immigrants have, tradition, pre-Islamic African culture, Western involvment, etc..... But at what point is the religion itself, especially one that encompasses an entire political and social life and system of government, called to account for the kind of life it offers people in the lands in which it predominates?

"President Erdogan said...." is NOT a proof. Nor an evidence.

I thought of that same idea, but I think this would be better if done BEFORE they get here, so they understand what our goals are for Canadian society. Edit to add: It should probably continue well after they arrive. I also think there needs to be better understanding on OUR part of exactly what we're dealing with. I remember a case in the UK of a couple who moved there from the Sudan - Omar and Afaf. The wife was 15 (at the time of the marriageand already a victim of FGM) and the husband was in his 30's. She integrated quite well, going from being a subserviant wife to an independant, accomplished woman, and he did not. She went to school, made freinds and got a job. When she was 38, she filed a restraining order against him and asked for a divorce. He killed her and basically got off in court due to "diminished capacity". What was missing, wasn't evidence, it was understanding of the prejudices and social baggage of the Islamic religion. The jury was unprepared to comprehend that it was an honor killing. Court watchers reported that each day at trial, he gave a clenched fist victory salute to his brothers who came to support him from the Sudan. Britain did a study of family violence after Afaf's death and found that women married to Muslim men were 8 times more likely to be killed by their husbands than other women in Britain. Our yardstick for assessing these crimes is woefully inadequate. And there seems to be a serious lack of support networks for women who arrive with husband who have these views. That being said, I think it is much easier for people to change/modify certain cultural practices when they immigrate to a new country but very difficult to explain the history of patriarchy and the science behind gender and sex, etc when an immigrant's religious beliefs overrule all of that.

It appears that it is the ACTING on extreme beliefs.

LOL You're adorable.

I love Colonel Chris Hadfield, I think he's a great Canadian. I had the opportunity to hear him speak last year and he is amazing. I thought I would share a post that was on the Col. Hadfield Facebook page I subscribe to. It lists many positive things that happened in 2016. I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I did. (I didn't want to link the page, so I just copied the information. But I'm sure you can find his page, if you like.)

But I thought you said that's where all us white people from Canada are supposed to be banished to?

Do you think Altai knows that? Or no?Because she/he seems to think s/he's the only one on the planet with access to all information. I ask because when I was in China, they all seemed to be aware that the information they had access to was censored by the government. S/he doesn't seem aware of that.

Are we at war with Turkey and I missed the newsflash or something? I had no idea the Turkeys hated us so much until I came to this forum.

Yes, thank you, Rue. Very nicely put, as always Have you read any of Steven Hassan's books? He was a former Moonie and I referred to his B.I.T.E model frequently when I was on the recovery forum. I even wrote an article using the BITE model, showing snippets from their own books and magazines to illustrate each point. http://www.reveal.org/library/psych/shassan.html Edit because the article above is not the one I wrote. I just included it to show what the BITE model is. I will try to find my article on the recovery forum, if anyone would like to see it.

Having trouble with formatting on my phone, sorry.

1. Except that when they have the numbers and power to claim a community as their own, that's exactly what they do. (See the link in my above post) 2. A country's legal system will not fall apart as long as we keep Sharia law out of it. As evidenced by the UK finally getting their s$$t together and finding out what's going on in these Sharia courts. 3. I don't believe anyone here said No Muslims in Canada. Some of us would just like some extra precautions on letting ones in from violent areas, as their values clash drastically with our's.

Here is just one. Out of many. http://m.clarionproject.org/news/muslim-gangs-enforcing-sharia-london-streets It's unknown how many Sharia law councils are in the UK alone, most reports say 80-100. The UK government has asked for an investigation as there are many reports of women being discriminated against or told they must remain in abusive relationships. In Montreal, there is a Muslim housing development planned. Non-Muslims are told they can live there as long as they abide by muslim laws. They are alsodoing it to try to get around having mortgages.

You shouldn't. That way when Islam's numbers and power in Canada grows to the point it has in Europe and their demands are made here as in Europe for Sharia law, you will have a long record of agreeing with them and you'll be safe. Just remember to pay the Jizya and keep your wife/daughters/girlfriends covered up and inside.

I guess she made her "choice".

Too many people will argue "But it's her CHOICE to wear it". As if a woman participating in her own oppression makes it less oppressive. The "choice" appears to be: Wear it because you're a filthy woman who must cover her dirty whore body at all times, or be beaten and/or killed. Sort of like when you're mugged and given the "choice" your money or your life. I also feel there is something desperately wrong with a religion or culture that finds 5 and 6 year old girls so incredibly sexy that they must cover up too.

The fact that women all over the world are being beaten, maimed and killed over the hijab/burqua/whatever AND it is a tangible symbol of religious extremism/dehumanizing/denigrating of women tells me I don't want it in my country.

I think this is very true. (In general, as there are a few JW converts from the academic world.) That's why I always felt we "preyed" on people. JWs STRONGLY discourage higher education, which seems to be OK with Scientology. I remember an "urban legend" that went around the JW world for awhile - that if you read the Awake magazine regularly, within X numbers of years (I heard 4 yrs and 7 yrs) it would be the equivalent of a university education. They are also huge deniers of evolution and have a history of giving out really bad medical advice. I was always a huge reader and too much of a logical thinker, I was always in trouble as a JW, not matter how much I tried. Too many questions and not enough answers that made sense.

I'm sure you attended the TMS every week like I did. I called them "classes" because like most cults, JWs have their own lingo that others don't understand. It makes them feel special and keeps them apart from others. The TMS is a weekly meeting where we were taught how to speak to people (not bad in itself) and draw out their fears and problems and then taught how to use certain scriptures to get them thinking our way. (I also attended many a Pioneer School.) It did always feel like "preying" on people to me. Yes, certain parts of my experience were due to my ex-husband. But he was supported in the things he did. You know how apostates and DFed people are viewed - so anything he did to me was considered "fair game" as Leah said in the show. Of course they don't call it Fair Game and it didn't get to the extent described in the show. At least not with me. But I know others suffered through this. Having to leave family behind definitely makes it harder for most. Leah was fortunate that her family agreed to leave with her. That is very rare. The pressure to meet their many high standards was very great for me. I was wracked with guilt and fear during my entire time as a JW and really never once felt I was good enough to be in the Paradise. Not all ex-JWs felt that pressure to the same degree but all say they felt some.

The Matrix! It always reminds me of that saying - "5 out of 6 people insist Russian Roulette is perfectly safe to play."

I was born and raised in it - 3rd generation. So I don't fully understand how "normal" people get involved in cults. I know the one I was in, they sort of "prey" on ones who experience a loss in life or are already struggling. They give classes on how to pull people like that into the group and use their disillusionment with life against them.

Yes, you are correct. It's partly the powerlessness, partly the guilt and fear of leaving. Lots of people struggle mentally after leaving a cult. And it's hard to find phychologists who truly understand the nature of the mind control. Recovery forums are important - they let you know you're not alone, that you're not crazy and offer real support. Everyone recovers differently - some get very angry at the cult, some just leave and go on with their lives after doing the research and putting the time into healing.

For sure The recovery forum I was on was so helpful for me that I also served on it for quite a few years and I saw the damage first hand to individuals and to families. One of my freinds from there committed suicide because he couldn't deal with the stress of being disfellowshipped (he also had other issues - alcohol being one) I don't have the celebrity power Leah has, so I'm glad she's using it to do this.

That's the sticking point - in watching the Scientology series, Leah keeps saying she wants legislation against this, but I'm not sure governments want to touch that with a ten foot pole. And as I pointed out, the cults will have their own public spin on it, saying that it's the family's "choice" to disconnect from you.

I'm not sure how governments would be able to deal with the disconnecting or disfellowshipping thing....Jw's tell the public that it is the family's "choice" to stop associating with you and that the disfellowshipped person makes the "choice" to cut off from family. But that's not the reality. There are sanctions in the church for associating with a disfellowshipped person, same as in Scientology.