Boges

I love how debates about Unions always boil down to the minimum wage and retail jobs. It's a scare tactic. When one questions unions people just say that everyone will be like Walmart workers if not for unions. As if entry level retail work is too good for people. From what I gather, you can be quite upwardly mobile in retail jobs. People can make very good money if they stick with a company for awhile and do a real good job. But everyone always looks at the wages for new workers. Many also don't make the minimum wage but as it goes up I reckon more will as people's salaries aren't necessarily linked to the minimum wage. What will that do to the standard of living of the masses?

Milton's about 100,000 people right now. Fastest growing community in Canada. The Province has growth plans for the town that wold see it over 300,000 by 2030. And the Big Move doesn't address that community much at all.

I think we spent two pages yesterday discussing the merits of those tools. It's clear we don't agree and are beyond convincing each other the other is right or wrong. Someone in the suburbs of Toronto has a different perspective of how transit should be funded and what needs to be done than someone in downtown Toronto. That's why it is political. If Wynne decides to alienate the 905, and beyond, to assist Toronto's transit problems, she'll be punished for it. Some of these tools are specifically punitive to people that drive, even if they don't contribute to congestion at all. I concede that Rob Ford's approach here is wrong-headed. Things will need to be done. I'm supportive of some of these tools, there are just a few that would make me very angry if they ever tried, and I wouldn't be alone on that. Just as, you might be angry if they added a heft surtax on fares to pay for the Big Move, I'd be angry if they ad to the already gigantic gas tax.

Everyone demonizes Wal-Mart because it does best what everyone is doing. People who don't shop at Walmart because they believe all their mercy is crap from China and their workers get paid dirt better not shop at Loblaws, the Bay, Metro and any other retail location in your local mall. The reason I like Wal-Mart is because it's truly a one-stop shop. You need medicine, toiletries, housewares, food, electronics? You can get it all at one spot. If I just want food, there are other places that have comparable, if not lower, prices that I can go that are closer to me.

There were some good movies on TMN last night at least. I actually went to a bar across the street for the first period and the atmosphere was great, especially after the first goal. If I want to be optimistic, It was less Boston was great that Toronto was just really bad. That second goal was ridiculous. JRV made a great plant, but Rask's rebound went in the air towards the blue line. JVR plays the defenseman instead of the puck and another player takes the puck the other way and scores. "face palm"

Wages are relative. Some would call my wages very low, other would call them very high. I think there's a sentiment out there, that all work requires a wage that would support a certain standard of living. But as wages go up so does the cost of living. I recently went across the border do a little bit of shopping in the US and saw how much lower the cost of living is there. People here would say that it's at the expense of lower wages BUT things cost a lot more here so who ends up ahead if you have to allocate more of your income, regardless of what you make, to pay for the increased wages of others. These issues aren't completely black and white. Recently a union in Ontario allowed a plant to close in Ontario because they wouldn't yield to the wage cuts the employers asked. The Canadian workers made $30+/hour while the employer was prepared to take operations to the US where workers would made $16/hour. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/02/03/caterpillar_closes_electromotive_plant_in_london.html People call this a race to the bottom. And I totally concede it a worrying trend. But I imagine $16/hour goes a lot farther in allowing someone live a quality life in Indiana than it does in Ontario where the wages are higher, but so are the taxes and cost of everything. Allowing EVERYONE to make a "Union" wage won't necessarily make everyone's life better as it increases the cost of living as well. The minimum wage in Australia is $14/hour. $14/hour certainly isn't the "living wage" it is here in Canada because the price of everything in the country is far more.

So in the budget today they'll unveil a plan to make those HOV lanes also Toll lanes. Basically you'd be charged a toll if you're in that lane solo. This morning I drove on a highway with an HOV during rush hour and the lane was rather empty. This is the least objectionable revenue tool so it's no surprise that Wynne started us out with this one. It's the plan to toll, perhaps, the 401 and an addition gas tax that will cause outrage. Those will be election losers for the Wynne government. The thing about the HOV lanes are that they are only really useful during certain hours. There are plenty times of the year where using it is useless. Also it only really help reduce congestion during rush hour because if I'm going someplace with my wife or some friends, it's not like I'm taking other cars of the road.

You don't think bullying goes on in Unions? In Ontario when the teachers were having a spat with the government over paid/banked sick days, instead of striking the unions mandated that teacher were not allowed to take part in voluntary extra-curricular activities. It was later ruled that what the Union did was illegal. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/ontario-teachers-union-call-to-halt-voluntary-activities-was-illegal-strike-action-labour-board/article11053331/ It seems to me you only oppose the "bullying" because the wages aren't that good.

Now hold on a second. How do you think it'll be any different in a Union environment where tenure is more important than anything else.

He got elected on those policies though. He increased in popularity and strength in every election he's fought. He has the mandate to implement his agenda. That's why voting down the GST cut and taking the country back to an election would have been a poor political decision. In 2015 the public will have the opportunity to turf him again. But that's not the point of this thread. It's EI. You have to be good to be lucky sometimes. You'll still have to defend your claim that people that only work part of the year should be allowed to claim EI the rest of the year by people that work year round. It's an insurance policy, not a salary top up. Would you support increased premiums for people that make more claims? That's how all other insurance policies work.

I think it's a fallacy to label people who never draw from EI as "well off". They may have happened to be lucky enough to stay employed. Harper only was able to have 100% control of the budget in 2011. If the Opposition was so opposed to the reduction in the GST and his pro-business bias they could have voted down any budget he tabled. They certainly were opposed to Harper trying to balance the budget in late 2008 in the face of the Economic meltdown. Also, I think you'll find some of the deregulation that ended up causing the meltdown was started by the Clinton administration 10 years early as well as the government insisting on banks allowing people to offer mortgages to people that were considered risky borrowers.

Would you consider "Butt Bleep Nowhere" Brampton?

Well you always have the choice to try and organize. And the employer has the choice to say no or fire anyone that tries. That's the benefit and burden living in a free society.

What's happening is that people who pay EI for years without ever taking from it are subsidizing people who use it every year to top up their seasonal employment so they can sit at home watching TV the rest of the year. Also I wouldn't blame the current government for the deficits, there was a global meltdown in 2008. Kensian spending was actually forced upon the government by the opposition parties by threatening to combine their votes and taking control of the house.

I can't quarrel with any Private Sector union. They have to work with the employer to provide whatever product or service being sold. But I absolutely loath public sector unions. They provide a government mandated monopoly so when they don't get what they want they can withdraw their services and the people that pay their wage are S-O-L. Just look at the potential Strike of Liqour Control Board workers in Ontario. Ontario forbids general stores (for the most part) to sell alcohol so LCBO's can hold the public hostage. And when people claim they are only protecting "good" jobs they ignore the fact that their "good" jobs are being completely subsidized by taxpayers that probably have fewer benefits than them and can't retire nearly as early as they do. So it's completely disingenuous.

It won't be that.

A Gas tax to pay for Toronto Rail lines isn't exactly "user pay." Well if you can trust this government to spend this money properly. The problem I have with the Big Move is that it's way to sweeping. I don't mind the Province helping to pay for a cross-town LRT or a rail-link to Pearson, but adding a new Gas Tax for the entire province to pay for it is where I have a problem. If the Province is such a financial mess that it can't budget for new projects as needed with the help of the municipal government then we truly do need a new government in charge of Ontario. But then again we don't really know which tools are going to be used. Again I don't mind some of them, but there are some I'm completely opposed to. Remember some of them include increased fares and extra development charges for places that stand to benefit.

I'm not surprised you fully support tolls everywhere. I reckon you don't drive. That type of tolling will make the Ontario Liberals unelectable though. Something that'd make me very happy. The NDP doesn't even support the revenue tools because the financial burden will come down squarely on the middle class. Horvath just bullied the government to agree to lower auto insurance rate. How hypocritical would it be to force the government to lower auto insurance but make those same drivers pay through the teeth in gas taxes and tolls? The province can fund roads that are cross regional like the 401 and use provincial tools to support it. When roads in my region are widened I expect the region is paying for it. But we're talking about a specific plan called the Big Move, where a good majority of the plans assist Toronto but where regressive taxes province wide potentially could be used to pay for them.

I still would like to see some evidence that the Toronto taxpayer is paying for hospitals in Mississauga and Hamilton.

Toronto is experiencing a population boom right now because condos are going up everywhere. They definitely need the transit because you don't really need a car down there. But I think these improvements should be funded largely by the Toronto taxpayer through property taxes or an entrance toll. Wynne wants something different though. But if she increases the gas tax for the entire province, I don't see how she'll be electable outside of Toronto.

I thought about the nightmare tolling the 401 through Toronto would be. It's 16 lanes, 4 different highways. Stopping people to through a twoonie into a basket would make traffic even worse. There's already a Toll Road to get through Toronto, if people were willing to pay, they'd use the 407 already. Also the 401 is Provincial highway, it's busy other places too. Why not put a toll in York, Halton or Peel? Now if you want to Toll the Gardiner, Go Nuts! Lots of large cities have tolls to get in, I'm shocked Toronto doesn't. It's $12 to get onto the Island of Manhattan.

Presto FTW. But that's another reason why commuting using Transit is very difficult. Unless you live or work near a station of somekind, you would have to utilize 3 different modes of transit. That's why many people don't use it.

Do you have an evidence it is? One way you can argue that the 416 is subsidizing the 905 is that people who work in the 416 buy property and spend their money in the 905. So Toronto money is leaving because people would prefer to live where more than 1,500 sq ft doesn't cost more than million dollars. But that's changing, a lot of the congestion are people driving through Toronto or from one part of the 905 to another.

Just because the 401 is packed doesn't mean they're all going to Toronto. Much of the 401's traffic are trucks just going from one end of the province to another. The QEW/Gardiner is probably busiest at the 403/Ford plant interchange everyday. LRTs to Scarborough aren't going to fix that. GO already services commuters on the Lakeshore line to the point that parking at the stations are very difficult. A lot of the Big Move improvements aren't dealing with people moving from one community to another, but helping people who already use transit. The Highway 10 LRT in Mississauga/Brampton will serve low income communities in those cities. The Yonge St. relief line will help improve transit because Toronto is whoring it's property to developers to build cheap condos as much as surburbs have been doing it to developers to build subdivisions. And if you think a Metropass is expensive see how much it is to get a Monthly pass to use GO from places like Milton, Oakville, Burlington or Hamilton. To many people, using transit just isn't worth it.

I don't mind having tolls on HOV lanes. How many people carpool right now anyway? The HOV lanes prove that there are ways to improve transportation without blanket provincial tolls, taxes and levies. The thing about tolls, is that the 407 proves many are reluctant to take them. The 401 can be bumper to bumper but people will prefer that over paying to go on the 407. You toll the Gardiner, Lakeshore will become a parking lot.