dialamah

I don't really like arguing, prefer finding places to agree even with disagreement. But I do have opinions and am not very good at letting things lay.

What is dodgy about it? You do have to do some reading, which I know you prefer not, but the info is there. I could make 4 separate links, but didn't feel like it.

Sometimes I learn stuff, believe it or not.

Deleted, due to being a pointless waste of time.

It's right enough.

Nicely said. I also like the idea of being connected with the earth, nature, the universe, the spirit world and that connectedness required respect for both one's ancestors and those who would come after you. In my opinion it was one of those 'good intentions with unintended consequences', eh? I'm not going to vilify the people who made those decisions, because no doubt they were generally well-motivated. At the same time, those unintended consequences resulted in the near-destruction of a great many people and I don't think it's wrong to admit that. We can't change the past, and we all have to 'get over it', but for the people whose entire culture revolved around the connections they had with each other, nature, their ancestors and their descendants, to have that all ripped away could only have been devastating. Some people simply don't want to see that; they seem to think that this is some kind of non-event, a bunch of whiners who are overstating what they experienced. Yet, some of the same people have an absolute meltdown if a woman wears a scarf on her head because "they're destroying Canadian culture". Imagine if the much feared Muslim invasion actually happened and they were forced to dress differently, believe differently, live where they were told? How hard can it be to practice some empathy and understand their greatest fear actually happened to these people and was visited on them by ... us? I am trying to listen. And realistically a 'capitalist pig lifestyle' is what they'll need to have if they have any hope of being successful in this particular country. But I am not persuaded that that is the only thing they want; I have mentioned my niece-in-law who is going to school so that she can have a decent job and (Western) lifestyle. She also seems to place great value on her family/tribe, their traditions and beliefs and ultimately she wants to be part of her band's leadership; this does not seem like someone who wants everything handed to her on a silver platter, with no thought of anything but her own personal well being. No doubt what you say is true of some natives, though; I'm not assuming all believe the same. Much of my information does come from a friend who works with treaty negotiations; she has spent countless hours among them for a couple of decades and her impression of their goals is much different than what you describe. I have also had some limited contact with reconciliation at my job, and again what you describe is not the impression I am left with. And I'd like to emphasize again: I'm not unaware of the problems, nor do I believe that just being Native makes you above reproach or criticism. I prefer to keep criticisms to those who deserve it, rather than spread it among people who may or may not share the same views merely because they share an ethnicity. Pacification and pandering? Those sounds like buzzwords found on right-wing radio talk shows. I hesitate to make assumptions about what you may mean by that, so perhaps you could offer specific examples so any response I may make will be sure to address what you are talking about.

I've already read about his opinion on the culture of Natives prior to the arrival of Europeans. He sees absolutely no value in Native culture and it would be a pointless exercise to even attempt to explain the value others might see. I understand that plenty of people see absolutely no problem with stereotyping and dismissing entire populations based on their own preconceived notions.

Yes, it is interesting. Why might that be, do you suppose? Do you think Argus really cares what FN folk might believe or have to offer? If someone who wasn't constantly sh*tting on non-whites were to ask, I would have answers.

Perhaps though I thought the money came from the band council. I think we more or less agree with what you have said. Certainly the drive for change has to come from within First Nations, but I think we are seeing that already. The "us vs them" attitude isn't entirely one-sided; look at the poster who sneers at the very idea that FN culture has anything of value to offer or the repeated sentiment - so what if we oppressed them, that's been kind of over now for 60 years, they should be all caught up now.

My mistake, I ought to have excepted those who only see value in white skin and Western capitilism.

I agree that continued segregation is not an answer and I don't know that its widely supported by Natives either. I support paying for schooling for Native youth as a first step towards autonomy from government support, but I am no expert on the challenges of allowing Natives to choose their own path while supporting that fairly and reasonably. I do agree, in general terms, that being self sufficient and engaging fully with the larger Canadian society is important for any minority group, even while retaining important cultural themes. First Nations culture has much to offer all Canadians, if we were open to learning about it.

Perhaps if "whitey" hadn't made their way of life easentially illegal and stuck them on the least desirable parcels of land, they would have been "sustainable". How about I tell you and your family to never leave your property unless I give you a piece of paper saying you have permission, tell you Christianity is now illegal and no more Chriatmasses or Easters for you? But here's some cash; c'mon now, prove to me how successful you can be, while I and my friends slap you down at every opportunity. PS: Gonna change all your names too.

Oh, you must be one of those "take personal responsibility" conservatives ... Unless of course it means taking responsibility for admitting Canada's past shitty behavior. "Moral stamdards" of the time may be reason not to entirely condemn those who thought residential schools were a good idea, or removing kids from their parents almost automatically. But making their way of life essentially illegal, from religion to dress, and forcing them on to certain parcels of land and requiring a "pass" to leave that area? That is pure oppression and racism. The Natives were victimized, and some of those policies were in place till the 50s and 60s. Expecting them to recover in a single generation and "join" the rest of Canada, while still fighting stereotypes and discrimination is completely stupid.

On the one hand, college students shouldn't protest Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson because that's shutting down free speech. On the other hand, unconstitutional laws should be passed to prevent criticism of Isreal.

You mean confining them on reserves-literally requiring a pass to leave, outlawing potlatches, renaming them with European names, putting their kids in residential schools so they could be "Christianized", imposed "Band Councils", forbade them speaking their language, practice their religion or wear their traditional dress, among other things. Yeah, we sure bent over backwards to "let them keep the old ways".

Wrong thread.

Thanks for sharing this. My niece-in-law, from a band in the Cariboo, is going to post-secondary school, plans to get involved in band politics and help drive positive change. I think there is real change happening, even if it's not consistent yet. I think the recognition of what Natives have had to endure and the decisions of courts in their favor has worked to give them a sense that they are important and can be the architects of their own future.

Our country made those promises. If its a virtue to "take responsibility" then lets do that instead of trying to squirm out of it. I have a friend who works with the fed gov in treaty negotiations and settlements. The First Nations took our country to court and won. I understand that in this, the wearing of hijab or niqab, and in the Khadr case, some people would prefer the courts ignore our own laws. I prefer that when we, through our government, break our own laws and someone is screwed over that they have recourse.

@cannuck. Changing the way we deal with First Nations may include encouraging more direct participation in the economy and less remaining on reserves with little or no prospects for employment or improvement of one's prospects. But I think the solution is more complex than simply "stop giving them money". I am not saying I know what the entire solution would look like, but I think it starts with acknowledging the manner in which the government, and by extension Canadians, treated them in the past helped in creating the problems they face today. Respecting their culture, honoring the promises we made so long ago is another important step. The simplicity of 'lazy buggers just want money' ignores the very real effects of decades of being considered second class citizens.

I will let you make your assumptions so you can happily take aim and punch at shadows.

That has been the attitude for over a century, and inspired the idea of residential schools to force "change" on Natives. I am glad that at least some of us have recognized that change starts with us.

Thats ok, I know you are doing your best. If you are able to come up with a logical explanation at some point, I would be interested in reading it.

Gotta agree, here. The NDP and Greens do have strong support for opposing pipelines. Of course, they may well be waiting till the pressure is strong enough to throw up their hands and say "ok, build the damn pipeline", and then they can say "We tried, but we had to give up."

So in your mind, the slippery slope is that gay people first wanted to get married, and now they don't want to be refused service because they are getting married? I'm finding it difficult to see the logic in this.