JerrySeinfeld

As much as I would like to...I see no reason to humour your strawman.....suffice to say if your toaster or tin foil hat told you that, it must certainly be true in your mind at least. So then you agree that the common muslim practise of killing your wife/sister to protect your honor is wrong and dispicable? Do you still beat your wife? Nice try. Answer the question.

There are no 'standing orders' to kill in the Quran either. I already explained how you took the quotes out of context but it appears that you don't want to let go of your irrational hatred of Islam. The bible has a number of standing order to kill.......some are no longer in effect due the thoroughness of their completion, and some have fallen by the wayside due to our enlightened era...but there are certainly standing orders to kill. If someone says please I shall list them. Great, now all we need is a worldwide movement of Christians self-detonating in the name of the Bible and you might be on your way to having a point! You mean like abortion clinic bombers? Does it have to be worldwide? Won't united states wide be enough? Afterall, the "jihadist" movement isn't world wide, your confusion notwithstanding........ Yes, exactly like abortion clinic bombers. Now, let's start counting....

As much as I would like to...I see no reason to humour your strawman.....suffice to say if your toaster or tin foil hat told you that, it must certainly be true in your mind at least. So then you agree that the common muslim practise of killing your wife/sister to protect your honor is wrong and dispicable?

Yes - non muslim kooks point out how many muslim cultures still think they're in the 7th century. Muslim kooks just kill their mothers and sisters. Good one. Interesting thing about multiculti apologists - you love apologizing for barbaric behavior. Yet you never walk the walk. Try living in this type of reality for the rest of your life and your ivory tower opinions about "all cultures are equal" would change pretty fast. just like back in the cold war - it was considered the pinnacle of academic sophistication to speak about how westerners were just as oppresed as those in the soviet block. Now, as always with lefties, we know it's just a load of anti-american hooey.

There are no 'standing orders' to kill in the Quran either. I already explained how you took the quotes out of context but it appears that you don't want to let go of your irrational hatred of Islam. The bible has a number of standing order to kill.......some are no longer in effect due the thoroughness of their completion, and some have fallen by the wayside due to our enlightened era...but there are certainly standing orders to kill. If someone says please I shall list them. Great, now all we need is a worldwide movement of Christians self-detonating in the name of the Bible and you might be on your way to having a point!

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...379&k=79240 Given that he's assisting Rona Ambrose that's pretty disturbing. I say we exclude all people from the political process who have different religious or political beliefs from the "accepted norm." That includes pro-lifers, anti-same-sex marriagers, muslims, ALL OF THEM!!!!

I think we should all relax and accept the findings - heck even gays call themselves "queer"

Europe is already done. When you factor in: 1. Miniscule birthrates of "traditional" Europeans 2. Massive settlements of unassimilated Muslim Immigrants 3. Very Large birthrates of these muslim populations 4. The muslim community's refusal to back down on anything it deems "offensive" 5. The European media/government's willingness to acquiescne to the muslim community's intimidation - even if it means curtyailing basic freedoms such as speech. Given the rate at which governments, institutions, media and even private enterprise are willing to back down to intimidation by the Islamic community in Europe, we don't even need to wait until the population swings to Muslim majority. The strings of power are already being pulled by the Islamists. Just look at foreign policy and you'll see the loyalties are shifting. America and Canada are the last chance for free western democracy. Let's not screw it up by making the same aqcuiescant, asskissing, "tolerance" mistakes made by the Europeans. If you think I'm wrong, question why political discussions end up in "religious and moral" topics and viseversa. The Islamofascists have already framed the debate.

You can't even do that in your own pathetic threads...so why should I humour you in mine...? ....it is enough that now the world knows that non muslims are bent on killing ........ Your point is not valid. You began this thread to show that violence is perpetrated by non Muslims much of the time which is true. However, Jihadists do not create violence out of personal anger but rather a global strategy to further their dream of recreating the Caliphate. A point which many in their hatred of the US and the West refuse to acknowledge as a goal for the Jihadists. Who's talking about Jihadists? I haven't seen any threads about Jihadists....only threads about Muslims killing their wives and such. Something that happens alll the time...especially in non muslim circles... Here: learn something about the world. "Honor is everything," says Ahmed, a 52-year-old Palestinian Muslim. "If a person loses his honor, he becomes like an animal." The significance of honor among Muslims is complex, especially when compared to Western standards, but in the high-context, collectivist cultures of Africa, Asia, and the Middle East, the inappropriate behavior of relatives brings shame to everyone in the extended family. Palestinian communities are typically insular. Family members often remain in the same village or neighborhood for their entire lives. "Everyone knows each other," says Muhib Nimrat, consul with the Embassy of Jordan in Washington, D.C. "When you mention someone's family name, most people can tell you their history." Wealthy or poor, the reputation and honor of a family are its most important attributes. Steeped in a collective sense of identity, families take pride in the accomplishments of individual members and feel shame if one of them does something dishonorable. "The family plays a role in every aspect of life in the Arab world," says Nimrat. "Whatever you do, you have to consider the immediate family and extended family, even the neighbors. How will they react? What will they think?" Unlike Western countries, which champion individualism, Arabs focus on the group. The family is more important than the individual. In the feudal, patriarchal societies of the Middle East, honor is based on what men feel is important, and reputation is everything. Unfortunately, thousands of women have been killed in the name of honor because imagination and rumors are as important as actions and events. Most, but not all, of these killings involve Muslims. Some Jewish communities, from the ancient fortress of Masada to conservative Hasidic sects of today, have similar views of tradition and ritual law but refrain from killing women in the name of honor. Murder by family The murder of females in the Middle East is an ancient tradition. Prior to the arrival of Islam in AD 622, Arabs occasionally buried infant daughters to avoid the possibility that they would later bring shame to the family. This practice continued through the centuries. It may still occur today among Bedouins, who consider girls most likely to sully the family honor. Several thousand women a year are victims of honor killings. Numerous murders are ruled an accident, suicide, or family dispute, if they're reported at all. Police and government officials are often bribed to ignore crimes and hinder investigations. A woman beaten, burned, strangled, shot, or stabbed to death is often ruled a suicide, even when there are multiple wounds. Many women are killed and buried in unmarked graves; their very existence is removed from community and clan records. The fact that so many murders go unreported is indicative of the status of women and the role of culture in fundamentalist Islamic countries. "It shows that women are still sometimes seen as commodities that are owned by men," says Carolyn Hannan, director of the United Nations Division for the Advancement of Women. A Palestinian family at a refugee camp in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. In the Palestinian communities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Israel, and Jordan, women are executed in their homes, in open fields, and occasionally in public, sometimes before crowds of cheering onlookers. Honor killings account for virtually all of the murders of Palestinian women in these areas. Honor killings occur for a variety of offenses, including allegations of premarital or extramarital sex, refusing an arranged marriage, attempting to obtain a divorce, or simply talking with a man. If a woman brings shame to the family, her male relatives are bound by duty and culture to kill her. "A woman shamed is like rotting flesh," a Palestinian merchant tells me. "If it is not cut away, it will consume the body. What I mean is the whole family will be tainted if she is not killed." Among Arabs, marriage is traditionally a family affair, not a personal choice. Girls are often pressured into arranged marriages, while boys are not. "I was forced to marry my cousin," laments a young Palestinian woman. "I hated him. He beat me and humiliated me in front of his family and friends. But what could I do? If I had fled, I would have been killed." Men hold all the power in the marriage. They are allowed up to four wives and may divorce a wife simply by saying "I divorce thee" three times before witnesses prior to registering the decree in court. The process for divorce is much more difficult for a woman and in some communities virtually impossible without her husband's consent. A woman's activities are closely monitored by her HONOR KILLINGS AND ISLAM The Qur'an has been inaccurately used to sanction honor killings and a host of other practices. family. Her virginity is considered their responsibility, and she is dominated by men her entire life--first her father, then her husband, and finally her sons. When a woman's chastity is in question, her family feels the shame, even if she is raped or the rumors prove unsubstantiated. As a result of "her" shame, the extended family is compromised. It will be difficult to arrange marriages for her unwed sisters, and her male relatives will be scorned and ridiculed until they kill her. Women are killed by their fathers, husbands, brothers, uncles, cousins, or sons. In communities where the crime is prosecuted, teenage brothers are encouraged to kill their sisters because the consequences will be less severe due to their age. Relatives of the victims, including mothers and sisters, often defend the killings and occasionally help set them up. Islam is inaccurately cited as justification for these crimes. In one case, a Palestinian boy admitted to reciting the Qur'an while strangling his sister for dishonoring her family. The girl was killed because her desire for independence became public knowledge. Most honor killings occur in poor, rural tribal areas or among uneducated urban dwellers. "The tribal influence is an important factor," notes Nimrat. "Education is also important. Someone who is not well educated will immediately kill his sister or wife. If he has a higher level of education, there might be some understanding." Sanctioned to kill Critics claim honor killings are sanctioned by the educated elite, who pass laws that enable murderers to get off with little or no punishment. "Many groups want harsher punishment for those who commit such acts," continues Nimrat, "but the cultural dimension plays an important role. To eradicate this will take time." Even when apprehended, murderers serve little or no jail time because honor killings are accorded special status in the courts. Men convicted of premeditated murder may be imprisoned for as little as three to six months. Upon their release, friends and relatives treat them like celebrities. Ahmed, a Palestinian boy who killed his teenage sister because she refused an arranged marriage, was commended upon his release from jail. Neighbors showered him with compliments, and his father called him a hero for restoring the family honor. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are governed by the Palestinian Authority under a combination of Jordanian, Egyptian, and tribal laws. Israel has no jurisdiction in these territories. There are at least twenty-five "official" honor killings a year among the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and thirty-five a year in Jordan. The actual number of deaths is much higher. Honor Killings in Jordan In Jordan the family will generally impose self-administered justice and escape legal punishment. Hundreds of women have died from strange and unusual accidents or questionable suicides. Many more are buried in the desert, unreported and unaccounted for. The secret of their fate is entombed with them in the sand. The lack of reliable statistics has hindered women's groups and human rights organizations in their campaign to eliminate honor killings. "Uncontrollable rage" at having lost their honor is another reason given to excuse perpetrators of these killings. It's the American equivalent of innocent by reason of insanity. The brutality of the attacks is shocking. An eighteen-year-old Palestinian man stabbed his teenage sister forty times because of a rumor that she was involved in an extramarital affair. The family thanked God for her death. In an adjacent neighborhood, a sixteen-year-old boy killed his divorced mother, stabbing her repeatedly as he chased her into the street. The boy told authorities he was upset because neighbors were gossiping about her allegedly immoral behavior. Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman. Men are presumed innocent; the woman must have tempted him into raping her or enticed him into having an affair. A woman is expected to protect her honor, even at the cost of her own life. If she survives a violent rape, she is condemned for her "mistake" and may be killed by her family. "The issue of consent is irrelevant when it comes to honor killings," says Marsha Freeman, director of the International Women's Rights Action Watch (IWRAW). "It has to do with the woman being defiled. It completely objectifies the woman as being about her sexuality and purity. It makes her not human." For Palestinian women accused of sexual infidelity or disobeying their family, there is little recourse. Few are given the opportunity to refute the charges or prove their innocence. A Palestinian girl near the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. It's difficult for women to flee the situation. Arab societies are close knit, and most women lack the resources to live alone. Palestinian newspapers include advertisements placed by families who are looking for female relatives accused of immoral behavior. "When they find her, they'll kill her," says Jameel, a Palestinian businessman, "because the whole family wants the girl dead." The community is warned not to interfere, not to hide the woman. The Palestinian community has limited resources and shelters. Women accused of inappropriate behavior are frequently jailed to protect them from their families. At least fifty women a year are imprisoned in Jordan on honor-related cases. The number held in the West Bank and Gaza Strip is unknown. The length of detention ranges from a few months to several years. Some of the female detainees expressed concern that they would never be able to leave jail because their families would kill them. Once imprisoned, women can be released only to a male relative, who must first agree not to execute them. Regardless of assurances, women are often murdered within hours of their discharge. Fayez Mohammed secured the release of his seventeen-year-old daughter, Lamis, from a Jordanian detention center where she was staying for her protection. He guaranteed her safety and then slit her throat. Fayez was sentenced to nine months in prison for the crime. Victims of dishonor In Palestinian communities, a woman's purity reflects directly on a family's reputation. If a woman is raped, missing, or even rumored to have engaged in premarital sexual relations, she is taken to a medical clinic for a hymen exam. This process can have fatal consequences. Over 75 percent of the Palestinian women in Jordan subjected to hymen exams were subsequently killed by family members, even when tests proved they were still virgins. Some women, including virgins, have operations to reattach their hymen prior to marriage, in part, to ensure that they bleed on their wedding night. This procedure, illegal in most Arab countries, can save a woman's honor, and perhaps her life. Among Arabs, it is essential that the new bride be a virgin. If the bride's hymen is not intact, or if she fails to bleed during initial penetration, the husband can declare the marriage void and return her to her family. Viewing her as damaged goods, her family may feel they have no alternative but to kill her, even if they believe she is innocent of any wrongdoing. From the tribal standpoint, the only way a family can regain its honor is to eliminate the women in question. "The law of the clan is sacred," notes Jibril, a Palestinian merchant. "A man is entitled to kill for his honor." Several Palestinians justified honor killings by equating a woman's reputation to glass, porcelain, or other fragile objects, stating, "Once broken, it is ruined. It cannot be fixed or repaired." Coerced to Kill Some Palestinian women, facing a loss of honor and certain death, have been offered a chance "to die with dignity" by strapping on explosives and killing Israelis. In some areas, a Palestinian woman is required to have a male relative accompany her whenever she leaves the home. Unfortunately, her male "guardian"--father, brother, uncle, or cousin--may be a sexual predator who rapes her. Should she become pregnant, he will publicly condemn her for dishonoring the family after killing both her and their unborn child. Last year, seventeen-year-old Afaf Younes was killed by her father, who had allegedly been sexually molesting her. Afaf had tried to escape his sexual abuse by running away, but she was caught and returned to her father. He then shot her in the name of honor. A sixteen-year-old Palestinian girl became pregnant after being raped by her younger brother. Once her condition became known, her family encouraged her older brother to kill her to remove the blemish from their honor. Her brothers, the rapist and the murderer, were exonerated. The girl was blamed. "She made a mistake," said one of her male cousins. "She had to pay for it." A young Palestinian girl peers through a window in her home in the Gaza Strip. Even more horrifically, a four-year-old Palestinian girl, raped by a man in his mid-twenties, was left by her family to bleed to death. They did this because they felt her misfortune would sully their honor. Women often accept their fate and expect to be executed, even in the case of incest and rape. "They have to kill us," exclaims Ritza, a middle-aged Palestinian woman, "to keep others from doing wrong. It is the law of our society." It is hard to grasp the logic. Girls, feeling they are ruined by scandal, go submissively to the slaughter. Such is the power of culture that has conditioned both victim and killer to accept their roles. "He had no choice but to kill her," says Rateb, whose son killed his sixteen-year-old sister after she was raped. "He was tormented. The community was persecuting him because of what his sister did. Her death has helped to wash away his shame." -James Emery is an anthropologist and journalist. Information for this article was obtained through interviews and research conducted in North America, West Asia, and the Middle East. The names of some of the Palestinians interviewed were changed to protect their identities.

Europe is already done. When you factor in: 1. Miniscule birthrates of "traditional" Europeans 2. Massive settlements of unassimilated Muslim Immigrants 3. Very Large birthrates of these muslim populations 4. The muslim community's refusal to back down on anything it deems "offensive" 5. The European media/government's willingness to acquiescne to the muslim community's intimidation - even if it means curtyailing basic freedoms such as speech. Given the rate at which governments, institutions, media and even private enterprise are willing to back down to intimidation by the Islamic community in Europe, we don't even need to wait until the population swings to Muslim majority. The strings of power are already being pulled by the Islamists. Just look at foreign policy and you'll see the loyalties are shifting. America and Canada are the last chance for free western democracy. Let's not screw it up by making the same aqcuiescant, asskissing, "tolerance" mistakes made by the Europeans.

SO.... We all agree that war is violent and results in death of both soldiers and civilians. And, unless you suffer from ADD, wars of principle often last more then 2-3 years. Next!!

ah yes, let's take away the one thing that has helped Israel to survive the last 30 years and watch Syria, Iran, Jordan Egypt and assorted thousands of terrorists mass on the borders. Really good idea. If you think all the Arab countries in the middle east want nukes simply because Israel has them then you are living in a dreamland. and while you're at it - what are you waiting for, higgly - why don't you just convert already, move to afghanistan, buy some goats and start taking away your wife's right to feel the sun shine on her face/

Not only that, but it's ridiculous that no matter what radical Islam throws at the world, there are still people who can't wait to defend it. Basically it's a form of racism: The liberals who "protect / defend" radical Islam's behavior do so out of some sense of duty to "protect" "minorities" from "prejudice". They give the muslims far too little credit - these people have far more sense of identity and purpose than liberal lefties do - and trust me - if they happened past the cave, Bin Laden would plug them full of lead and cut off their head before they had a chance to say "BUT I'M ON YOUR SIDE".

You haven't heard any? How many did you listen to? 2? 3? Zero? Interesting, aside from your vaccuum and your show stopping claim "educated debate only exists on our side" (the irony which must be lost on you) I was watching a show on vision last saturday called understanding the Koran. The show consisted of a young and attractive woman asking a muslim scholar question about life, the universe and everything. She finally got to the pope. His explanation was well reasoned, thought provoking and insightful. I can't repeat verbatim his discourse, but in a nutshell...... The pope was wrong on 2 counts..... 1) The Pope was discussing the relationship between science and religion. In doing so, the byzantine quote added nothing to the argument, it was a non sequitor. 2) The Byzantine quote in context was false. Muslims made war, it is true. Christians made war as well, for exactly the same reasons Muslims made war...for political reasons. While it is true that Christians fought in the name of Christianity (Constantine, Crusades), why should one be surprised that muslims are different? And while it is true that in every land conquered by christians, the public became christains, it is not true of every muslim conquest. He mentions a third reason but by that point I was readingh Thomas and the Rumours to my son........ Well, that right there is grounds for shooting a nun in the back! Dancer - you've changed my mind! I'm painting my death-threat placards as I type....

Does anyone else find it kind of ironic that Muslims would respond to a percieved accusation by the Pope that Islam is a violent religion by shooting a nun in the back? (not to mention other worldwide threats and violence)

At one point in last night's football game, green bay was actually leading and the hometown Philly fans were nervous. Are you a Philly fan?

I agree with part of your analysis - we need more troops!!!

Does this happen often in Calgary? I don't know. Do Asian gangs commit drive-by shootings often? Let's agree that if your attempt at a massive generalization is true, so is Argus's.

Aside from having no solution to the violence? Well, nothing. It so fantastically perfect, even a half wit moron can get behind it. Yes we've established that war is violent. Next?

The Iraq War was started based on falsehoods for no reason other than to satisfy the egos of the people in the US gov't. It has made terrorism worse and severely damaged the reputation of the US in world (not to mention cost the American taxpayer huge sums of money). It was started to start changing the middle east, which it has, which has temporarily resulted in more hostilities by the in surgents who don't want change. And if the eurotrash arab sympathizers or the UN (a club of despot dictators who host Ahmedinejad and appluad him) don't appove, that's probably a pretty good sign they're doing the right thing

IF you could tell me that all of the criminals you cite have openly committed these crimes in the name of a global war against people who do not share their beliefs in a particular god, then you MIGHT begin to be onto something. Until then you're just making your case even weaker by taking the time to actually type such drivel. In fact, I can't believe I even bothered responding.

Nothing you guys have said has been any different than any other anti-war hippie movement throughout history. Yes, people are dying and it's taking longer than your miniscule patience can handle. But other than that...what is wrong with the Iraq war? Specifically?

Huh? Thats your problem. You ignore what's going on around you in the world as fanatical muslims worldwide abuse the western democracies we have built. Then when someone points it out you play your multiculti muzzak and pretend it's not happening. Then you accuse OTHERS of tunnel vision? hahahahaha....

Tripoli - The elder son of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has called on Pope Benedict XVI to convert to Islam immediately, dismissing last week’s apology from the pontiff for offending Muslims. “If this person were really someone reasonable, he would not agree to remain at his post one minute, but would convert to Islam immediately,” Mohammed Gaddafi told an awards ceremony on Monday evening for an international competition to memorise the Qur’an. “We say to the pope - whether you apologise or not is irrelevant, as apologies make no difference to us.” Gaddafi junior also hit out at “those Muslims who look for comfort in the words of a non-Muslim”. He said Muslims “should not look for charity from the infidel... but should fight Islam’s enemies who attack the faith and the Prophet Muhammad”. --SURE SOUNDS LIKE TOLERANCE TO ME!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4799576.stm Six-year old Alisha Begum, whose family are of Bangladeshi origin. She was the victim of an arson attack at the family home on Friday, March 10 this year. The attack took place on Bayswater Road, Perry Barr, in Birmingham. Two men had broken into the house and thrown petrol accelerant into the building, setting it alight, and had then fled. The fire was so ferocious that the rest of the family who were in the house had to jump from an upstairs window to escape. Little Alisha was trapped in her bedroom in her bunk bed, where the flames were the most intense. Alisha suffered from 95% to 100% burns, and died the following day at Birmingham Children’s Hospital. On Friday April 7, two men were charged with her murder. Today, the Telegraph reports from the trial of the two men at Birmingham Crown Court. A 26-year old dentist, Hussein Ahmad, and 18-year old Daryll Tuzzio are being tried for one count of murder (that of Alisha Begum), and nine counts of attempted murder (the rest of the family). Yesterday, the court was told by prosecutor Adrian Redgrave: “One hears of so-called honour killings though one may wonder how by any stretch of the imagination there can be any honour in what happened here, resulting in the death of a six-year-old child.” “Hussain and his associates knew that at the house there was not only Abdul Hamid, and he was the one they were trying to get at, but they knew full well that there was a whole family living there.” Alisha’s brother, 21-year old Abdul Hamid, had been seeing a teenaged girl, Meherun Khanum, since the end of 2005. Meherun was the sister of Hussein Ahmad. When her family found out about the relationship, a threatening phone call was made to Abdul on Thursday, March 9, warning him to stay away from the 15-year old girl. The following day, the arson attack took place, shortly before midnight.