A Muslim inmate has won $2,000 for bacon insult

[ScottSA]

I wonder why the Jews have been suffering through these indignities in prison for a couple hundred years. I'm beginning to think Muslims are nothing but whiney thugs.

A Muslim inmate has won $2,000 and a partial human rights victory over a Correctional Service of Canada policy not to replace bacon with a halal diet for Islam-worshipping cons.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2007...514133-sun.html

[Peter F]

I wonder why the Jews have been suffering through these indignities in prison for a couple hundred years. I'm beginning to think Muslims are nothing but whiney thugs.

or maybe Muslims, or at least the one muslim of the story, wasn't going to sit around and take it any more. Good for him.

And take note...no violence was involved! He followed the path of the prison greivance process then appealed that to the federal court of Canada.

No thuggery here.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Peter F

[Guest American Woman]

I wonder why the Jews have been suffering through these indignities in prison for a couple hundred years. I'm beginning to think Muslims are nothing but whiney thugs.

A Muslim inmate has won $2,000 and a partial human rights victory over a Correctional Service of Canada policy not to replace bacon with a halal diet for Islam-worshipping cons.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2007...514133-sun.html

They haven't been. Jews have sued over prisons not offering kosher food. So are you beginnng to think Jews are nothing but "whiney thugs" too?

[betsy]

or maybe Muslims, or at least the one muslim of the story, wasn't going to sit around and take it any more.

Take what anymore?

He can eat eggs! That's protein! Nothing lost there in terms of nutritional value!

So just give him a double helping of eggs, or whatever else is being served in lieu of what he couldn't eat!

That's how we do it in some restaurants: I couldn't eat potatoes so can I please have an extra toast instead?

Why should we taxpayers shell out more to order in something just to pander to this inmate? He is not in a bleeding hotel!

At least he should count his blessing that in foregoing bacon, he cut down on his cholesterol!

Something is definitely wrong with our system when nonsensical and frivolous complaints such as this one is being accomodated and being rewarded!

Edited September 23, 2007 by betsy

[Peter F]

Take what anymore?

He can eat eggs! That's protein! Nothing lost there in terms of nutritional value!

So just give him a double helping of eggs, or whatever else is being served in lieu of what he couldn't eat!

That's how we do it in some restaurants: I couldn't eat potatoes so can I please have an extra toast instead?

Why should we taxpayers shell out more to order in something just to pander to this inmate? He is not in a bleeding hotel!

At least he should count his blessing that in foregoing bacon, he cut down on his cholesterol!

Something is definitely wrong with our system when nonsensical and frivolous complaints such as this one is being accomodated and being rewarded!

May I remind you that the Federal Court agreed with him. Helluva system eh? I love it.

[jefferiah]

May I remind you that the Federal Court agreed with him. Helluva system eh? I love it.

I think the point, Peter, was that the Federal Court is whacked, not that its judgements are anything to use to set the standard of reason.

Seriously three pieces of bacon on a plate with eggs, toast, cereal, etc. All he has to do is say "hold the bacon". Like my friend who hates tomatoes. He gets a burger at Burger King. He takes his tomato out. He doesn't ask for 2000 bucks because that is the way Burger King makes their burgers. Seriously 2000 bucks for three pieces of bacon. And you love it? Get real!

[ScottSA]

I sometimes despair at the nonsense that passes for reason in our society.

[Guest American Woman]

Repeating: Jews have sued over prisons not offering kosher food.

Not one comment about that. Is it only a bad thing when Muslims complain?

[betsy]

Repeating: Jews have sued over prisons not offering kosher food.

Not one comment about that. Is it only a bad thing when Muslims complain?

Well I'd like to know sufficient details over that before I give a comment. Can you provide a link?

[FTA Lawyer]

I'd like to know how much money was spent by the Federal Gov't to fight this rather than just accommodate the request?

Betsy says...just give him extra eggs...but that's the problem, they didn't offer this guy anything but a flip of the metaphorical middle finger it would appear.

Also, I second Peter F in pointing out that there was no riot, hunger strike, assault on a guard, or call for a Jihad against the Canadian Government...you can't criticize this guy for following the available administrative / court complaint process.

FTA

[betsy]

I'd like to know how much money was spent by the Federal Gov't to fight this rather than just accommodate the request?

Betsy says...just give him extra eggs...but that's the problem, they didn't offer this guy anything but a flip of the metaphorical middle finger it would appear.

Also, I second Peter F in pointing out that there was no riot, hunger strike, assault on a guard, or call for a Jihad against the Canadian Government...you can't criticize this guy for following the available administrative / court complaint process.

FTA

If this guy had asked for a replacement such as an extra helping of eggs in lieu of the bacon, and he was denied....then I would concede that yes, he has cause for grievance.

However, from what I understand he asked a replacement in the form of halal.

And reading again from that link, who was that jerk official who suggested that bacon be taken out of the menu altogether???

[kimmy]

Bacon is not very healthy, and it's quite expensive. Why are we feeding it to inmates at all?

-k

[Guest American Woman]

Betsy says...just give him extra eggs...but that's the problem, they didn't offer this guy anything but a flip of the metaphorical middle finger it would appear.

Prisoners who want their religious diets followed don't want to be offered 'extra this or that.' They want a full meal that meets their religious requirements.

California to serve kosher meals to Jewish inmates

"[in] California, the response until now had been for prisons 'to offer another helping of mashed potatoes' instead of a balanced diet to an inmate whose religion does not permit eating pork."

Edited September 23, 2007 by American Woman

[betsy]

Prisoners who want their religious diets followed don't want to be offered 'extra this or that.' They want a full meal that meets their religious requirements.

California to serve kosher meals to Jewish inmates

According to wiki:

"Kosher foods are those that meet certain criteria of Jewish law. Invalidating characteristics may range from the presence of a mixture of meat and milk, to the use of produce from Israel that has not been tithed properly, or even the use of cooking utensils which had previously been used for non-kosher food. For an in-depth discussion of this tradition, see kashrut."

This case regarding the Jew cannot be compared with the bacon issue regarding the Muslim.

Obviously the religious requirement of Jews lies in the special way of preparing their meals (which the inmate Jew cannot follow)....whereas the bacon issue stems from the belief that Muslims must not eat pork - which can easily be followed by this inmate simply by not eating the bacon. So clearly, he can still follow his religious diet.

"[in] California, the response until now had been for prisons 'to offer another helping of mashed potatoes' instead of a balanced diet to an inmate whose religion does not permit eating pork."

I agree that balanced diet should be for all. Depriving someone of nutritional value is akin to abuse. There should be another protein alternative other than the pork.

However, this said inmate was not deprived of a balanced diet. Protein in the form of eggs was still available. In fact, without the bacon, it was a healthier meal.

Edited September 23, 2007 by betsy

[sharkman]

Citizens whose behaviour has gotten them pulled out of society and placed into the big house should not be permitted to make demands about what food they eat, so long as it meets federal government guidelines for proper nutrition. They lost that right when society had to protect itself from them by throwing them into the slammer. That's why they call it incarceration. I do not care what religion they are, and neither should the judges. IF they had followed their religion more closely, they would not have found themselves in prison in the first place.

That a prisoner has won 2000 bucks in Canada sounds about right. Our justice system is so pathetic, the prisoner wins $2000 when he wasn't even asking for money! This is simply Madame Justice Eleanor Dawson's way of setting another ridiculous precedent so that the whole prison system has to now come up with the funds to serve upteen different religious diets for prisoners, who no doubt will now convert to whatever religion and then demand to be fed whatever diet this religion calls for just to stick it to THE MAN, knowing that judges will back them up.

Edited September 23, 2007 by sharkman

[Guest American Woman]

This case regarding the Jew cannot be compared with the bacon issue regarding the Muslim.

Of course it's different when Jews demand kosher food. I didn't expect any other reaction. Providing food that meets their dietary requirements to Muslims doen't cost more, while kosher food costs a lot more than standard prison fare, but no complaints about that either, eh?* (I can just hear the outrage if Muslim prisoners were getting meals that cost 5 times more than the standard prison meals). Of course Jews' demands for kosher food/law suits don't make them "whiney thugs."

Here's another case for you to make excuses for:

"Inmate Albert Kuperman was given three prepackaged kosher meals a day and was allowed to buy kosher items from the prison canteen. But prison officials took Kuperman off the kosher diet three times after he was caught with non-kosher foods.

Kuperman signed a form acknowledging that the punishment for eating non-kosher food would be a six-month suspension of his kosher diet, but Kuperman testified at a hearing that he bought meat from the canteen for another inmate who was 'strong-arming' him. Kuperman said he did not eat it.

The magistrate’s report also said Kuperman was accused of eating non-kosher chicken from the prison kitchen."

He won the right to have his kosher meals reinstated.

Btw, a vegan/vegetarian diet would be a nutrionally balanced diet and satisfy Jewish inmates' need for kosher food, so does their not settling for that make them "whiney thugs?"

*Edited to add:

My mistake. There was a complaint about providing food that costs more:

Why should we taxpayers shell out more to order in something just to pander to this inmate? He is not in a bleeding hotel!

That of course was in regards to Muslims. I'm expecting to hear outrage over the cost of Kosher food now.

Edited September 23, 2007 by American Woman

[kimmy]

This case regarding the Jew cannot be compared with the bacon issue regarding the Muslim.

Obviously the religious requirement of Jews lies in the special way of preparing their meals (which the inmate Jew cannot follow)....whereas the bacon issue stems from the belief that Muslims must not eat pork - which can easily be followed by this inmate simply by not eating the bacon. So clearly, he can still follow his religious diet.

It's simply false to suggest that Muslim food practices are as simple as just not eating pork. From what I've read on the subject, there's actually considerable similarity between "halal" and "kosher" practices. Arguments relating to the "kosher" lawsuit can be equally applied to "halal".

-k

[betsy]

Of course it's different when Jews demand kosher food. I didn't expect any other reaction. Providing food that meets their dietary requirements to Muslims doen't cost more, while kosher food costs a lot more than standard prison fare, but no complaints about that, eh? (I can just hear the outrage if Muslim prisoners were getting meals that cost 5 times more than the standard prison meals). Of course Jews' demands for kosher food/law suits don't make them "whiney thugs."

Who's talking about cost? You did not mention anything about cost. You were spouting off about meeting religious requirements. Keen to do the comparison between a Jew and a Muslim.

And I showed you clearly how the two are incomparable.

Here's another case for you to make excuses for:

"Inmate Albert Kuperman was given three prepackaged kosher meals a day and was allowed to buy kosher items from the prison canteen. But prison officials took Kuperman off the kosher diet three times after he was caught with non-kosher foods.

Kuperman signed a form acknowledging that the punishment for eating non-kosher food would be a six-month suspension of his kosher diet, but Kuperman testified at a hearing that he bought meat from the canteen for another inmate who was 'strong-arming' him. Kuperman said he did not eat it.

The magistrate’s report also said Kuperman was accused of eating non-kosher chicken from the prison kitchen."

He won the right to have his kosher meals reinstated.

So? Whether it be a Muslim or a Jew or a Cannibal....all you proved is that there is a terrible flaw in the system!

Btw, a vegan/vegetarian diet would be a nutrionally balanced diet

That is highly debatable.

[Guest American Woman]

Who's talking about cost?

You were, as I just pointed out in an edit to my previous post:

Why should we taxpayers shell out more to order in something just to pander to this inmate? He is not in a bleeding hotel!

So let the outrage against Jewish prisoners' demands for kosher food begin! After all, as you yourself pointed out, they "aren't in bleeding hotel!"

[betsy]

You were, as I just pointed out in an edit to my previous post:

So let the outrage against Jewish prisoners' demands for kosher food begin! After all, as you yourself pointed out, they "aren't in bleeding hotel!"

Hah! If we're talking cost....and if we're going to be bleeding hearts about this...I still stand by the opinion that the Jewish Kosher is not comparable to The Muslim's pork aversion scenario!

So yes, we have to shell out money for kosher since obviously the Jew will be deprived of his religious requirement....and we can offer a protein substitute in lieu of pork for the Muslim!

[Guest American Woman]

Hah! If we're talking cost....and if we're going to be bleeding hearts about this...I still stand by the opinion that the Jewish Kosher is not comparable to The Muslim's pork aversion scenario!

So yes, we have to shell out money for kosher since obviously the Jew will be deprived of his religious requirement....and we can offer a protein substitute in lieu of pork for the Muslim!

You didn't disappoint at all. I got just what I expected of you. Of course cost isn't an issue when it's not for a Muslim. The "he's not in a bleeding hotel!" mentality doesn't apply to non-Muslims.

And of course the Muslim has an "aversion" to pork, while the Jewish inmate has "religious requirements." again.

Edited September 23, 2007 by American Woman

[sharkman]

Citizens whose behaviour has gotten them pulled out of society and placed into the big house should not be permitted to make demands about what food they eat, so long as it meets federal government guidelines for proper nutrition. They lost that right when society had to protect itself from them by throwing them into the slammer. That's why they call it incarceration. I do not care what religion they are, and neither should the judges. IF they had followed their religion more closely, they would not have found themselves in prison in the first place.

That a prisoner has won 2000 bucks in Canada sounds about right. Our justice system is so pathetic, the prisoner wins $2000 when he wasn't even asking for money! This is simply Madame Justice Eleanor Dawson's way of setting another ridiculous precedent so that the whole prison system has to now come up with the funds to serve upteen different religious diets for prisoners, who no doubt will now convert to whatever religion and then demand to be fed whatever diet this religion calls for just to stick it to THE MAN, knowing that judges will back them up.

I still contend that this is a bad precedent that will be abused, and people of any religion who get themselves incarcerated have chosen risky behaviour over their religion and can not now make demands of the prison system.

[Guest American Woman]

I still contend that this is a bad precedent that will be abused,....

It's already being abused in American prisons. Inmates are claiming to be Jewish because the much costlier Kosher meal is better than standard prison meals.

[jefferiah]

I'd like to know how much money was spent by the Federal Gov't to fight this rather than just accommodate the request?

Betsy says...just give him extra eggs...but that's the problem, they didn't offer this guy anything but a flip of the metaphorical middle finger it would appear.

Also, I second Peter F in pointing out that there was no riot, hunger strike, assault on a guard, or call for a Jihad against the Canadian Government...you can't criticize this guy for following the available administrative / court complaint process.

FTA

Well worth it. Do you think we should set a precedent where inmates can now complain about every little meal or even side dish as if it were some sort of abuse? Actually you are right FTA, it was not worth going to court. It should not have even gone to trial. This is nonsense. 2000 bucks. Some people don't even get that much when suing for medical fees after a minor assault. And you think it is reasonable to give a man 2000 bucks because he could not ask to hold the bacon? I can just imagine the pain and suffering he went through. Oh the horror.

I am not ciriticizing the guy as if he were starting jihad. It's not simply a muslim issue either. It's a matter of federal courts pandering to silly complaints by criminals. Seriously, 3 pieces of bacon on a plate. 2000 bucks cause he doesn't like the way they serve the majority. Do you people have anything between your ears?

Edited September 23, 2007 by jefferiah

[jefferiah]

You think it is a great thing that there was no violence in this case or jihad? What does that have to do with the fact that the government panders to certain criminals who seek to victimize themselves at every turn? You don't need to have vandalism, violence, or jihad. You just have to complain. Liberal judges eat it right up. The criminal is never responsible. He is society's victim. It would be too much to ask the pour soul to ask for extra eggs. No, what he needs is 2000 bucks. He deserves it after the pain he has endured.

Now how about the prison itself? Were they committing any acts of violence or anti-Islamic jihad, by serving a regular meal which happened to include 3 pieces of bacon, which could have easily been refused? Cmon knuckleheads. Do you ever order something at a restaurant and discard something in the platter you don't like? Cole slaw perhaps, tomatoes, the olives on your pizza?

Edited September 23, 2007 by jefferiah